DIY, Sub-grand WMCE 4: configuring the PC for HDTV
By Kevin C. Tofel 
posted Nov 29th 2005 9:04PM
posted Nov 29th 2005 9:04PM
So we're all set on our hardware since we added more RAM, a video card
and an HDTV tuner. I guess it's time to boot this puppy up and hope it
works! Remember that our goal was to take a base Windows Media Center
PC and add a few components to it for high-definition viewing for under
$1,000. The total bill so far is $947, so we're good there. What else
could go wrong now that we're in the home-stretch?Actually, something huge and it's what I consider the biggest blunder Microsoft has made with the WMCE operating system. I had to pull a little trick out of my hat to get around it and some of you will justly cry "foul!" when you see what it is. What is this big elephant in the WMCE PC, you ask? Did you successfully work around it, you want to know?? Read on my fellow high-deffers, read on...
Before I tell you what the gigantic mistake is that Microsoft made here, I will be fair in telling you that WMCE is generally a very slick interface. In fact, I think it's far better than many other Microsoft products available today, and that says something. It's generally easy to use and it plain works; exactly what you would wish for in a piece of software.
Having said that, I'll start up with the configuration steps so you can decide if I'm a little over the top on the issue I ran in to. Remember that I've already installed any required drivers for the video card and the HDTV tuner card. I've also run Windows Update as an extra precaution. I also have an amplified Terk antenna that I was using with my Panasonic HD-tuner box, so I've connected that to the DTV input on the tuner card. Here we go!
After the tasteful Welcome screen, I'm told there are required setup steps and optional setup steps. Clicking next brings you to a Privacy statement and an opt-in to improve Windows Media Center. Choosing to share anonymous information has no impact on your television viewing with WMCE, so this is up to you. The next required step is for Enhanced Playback. Namely: do you want to have MCE connect to the Internet for cover art, music and movie information.
If you have an always-on broadband connection, why not? WMCE will then check your Internet connection automatically.
That's it for the required options, which was a little surprising. Then again, not everyone buys a Windows Media Center PC for the same reason we did: HDTV! This brings us to the optional setup steps which include:
- TV Tuners, TV signals and the TV programming guide
- Optimization of your display
- Proper setup of your speakers
Apparently Windows Media Center won't configure the tuners because it isn't detecting the presence of an analog, or NTSC tuner in our computer. Um, that's because we don't care about analog television; we're building this configuration for high-definition and digital TV! No matter what I said to the computer, it wouldn't budge. No analog tuner, no television at all!
It turns out that this is a known or design limitation in WMCE and this is where I think Microsoft has made a huge blunder. For one thing, I don't believe that most folks are aware of the limitation. For another, it's a digital world so why limit your digital entertainment by requiring an analog tuner? I sincerely hope that in the next WMCE update, this limitation is removed.
Regardless of my opinions on the subject, we seem to have an issue. The funny thing is, the ATI HDTV Wonder card includes both an analog and a digital tuner, so what's the deal? After reviewing the support area of ATI's website, I've realized that this tuner will work for HDTV on a WMCE PC if certain requirements are met. One of them is (yes, you guessed it) the PC needs to have it's own analog tuner. Fourteen obscenities later, I decide to review my options, of which there appear to be two.
Option one is to use some hacked drivers for the HDTV Wonder. The so-called "Kram" drivers showed some success for people, but quite honestly, I had a difficult time locating them, so I went with option two. That is, I decided to temporarily have an analog tuner connected to the WMCE machine. Once the operating system sees the analog tuner hardware, it won't ask for it again. Sneaky, but effective!
From another project, I already had an external USB TV tuner, so I simply plugged it in to the USB port on the WMCE and I was off and running. I didn't bother to hook up an antenna to the analog tuner; frankly, I don't want those analog channels anyway. Once WMCE "configured" the analog tuner, it immediately followed by setting up the digital tuner.
You can use either the automatic signal setup or the manual one. I've used both and they work equally well. In the automatic mode, WMCE will scan for a set top, cable, and antenna signal.
Once the signal is configured, WMCE will ask you for your local zip code for guide information. Via your Internet connection, you will always have 14 days of guide information at your fingertips. After the guide listings are loaded, which takes only a few minutes, you're all set to watch some HDTV!
Tune in for our next installment when we put WMCE through the paces for live and recorded high definition television. We'll follow that up with our last (and most exciting) part this weekend: streaming HDTV via WiFi to our Xbox 360! Yes, we've done it and yes it works! I'm watching 1080i programming on the 360 right now!
Previously:
- The Goal
- The Base System for $650
- Installing more memory and a graphics card
- Adding the HDTV tuner card
Is this thing going to be able to tune analog TV at all? I don't see it being much use if all you can watch is OTA HDTV. Many people don't live where they can tune OTA HDTV.
Of course you can include an NTSC/analog tuner in it; if you want to. But if you have OTA digital/ATSC why in the world would you want the analog. As soon as I got my HDTV Wonder intstalled in my WMCE and saw what an improvement the SDTV content was over analog, not to mention the HDTV content,I unhooked the analog antena and erased all the analog stations. They were complete crap.BTW I get more digital stations than I got analog. The PBS, NBC, ABC, and PAX affiliates all run multiple sub-channels where I live.
BTW. I had to chuckle at your gripe. I had the exact same reaction, however I knew the limitation before I bought the HDTV Wonder. Incidentally I left my analog tuner in the case because I thought I had to. I was upset because I wanted the space for another card. One night while I was fiddling inside the case I accidentally tore off a cicuit mount capacitor on the analog tuner and thought "Oh crap, it might screw up the digital tuner!", but I just yanked it out and the HDTV Wonder kept on chuggin. The only thing is though, is that if you want to change TV settings in the Settings menu it scans for the analog tuner and will not let you make changes if it is not found. So if I want to make a change I just put it back in and everything is OK (even though I probably ruined the analog tuner-I never tried to test it)
Trust me, you will want to use the Kram drivers. Once you disconnect the analog tuner from the PC, you won't be able to get back into the tuner settings to check stuff like the digital signal strength or to edit channels.
zedebsky, with the setup I've outlined, no you won't be able to tune in analog channels. My goal was HDTV only, but you could always add an external TV tuner for under $100 if analog was needed. I expect that we'll upgrade this system with Microsoft Vista and CableCard support next year to give more programming options.
Josh, I only had the USB analog tuner connected one time for about 5 minutes to get around the NTSC tuner limitation on WMCE. I then removed it and have not used it since. I went through the entire Media Center Setup again without it and was able to configure my DTV tuner and channels. The automatic configuration did not work under those conditions, but the manual config did.
Perhaps it has changed since Rollup 2 was released, then.
Wow, that's a strange oversight on Microsoft's part. Surely it will be or has been corrected?!
Personally, I'm thinking of retrofitting my home desktop computer with BeyondTV4 and an HD card. I don't need any of the other media features and I'm not streaming to an Xbox. BTV seems very polished, though it doesn't support QAM from what I've been told.
Hey, once you get everything up and running and streaming through to the XBOX, it would be great if you could create a thread on how to use RSS and Bit Torrent to capture other HDTV broadcasts. There is a whole series over on another blog, but it doesn't have quite the "easy to read" and configure feel that this series has... great work!
Here is the other blog I was talking abuot, it's a great idea, but i haven't taken the time to figure it out. I think would be a great addition to this series!
http://jonsthoughtsoneverything.com/2005/02/28/rss-bittorrent-xbmc-bliss/
Good luck and keep it up!
Drew
The way I got around this was to use the Avermedia hybrid + FM tuner two of them in fact and it works a treat. although I have had some picture problems due to the nvidia decoder with HDTV. Now all I need is digital satellite compatability in MCE.
Kevin, do you plan to connect the XB360 wirelessly to the network, and if so are you using MS's wireless bridge? Does MS's wireless bridge support WPA/PSK? I hope it does, otherwise it's like leaving your network's door wide open. BTW Nintendo did just that with their DS's wifi usb dongle. Wireless hardware makers shouldn't be selling anything with less than WPA security, period. And WEP should be obsolete.
bigos, good question. The 360 and Microsoft Network Adapter definitely support WPA security as well as WEP.
Is there any way to directly input a cable/satellite audio/video output (DVI, HDMI, Component, S-Video, etc.) into a Windows Media Center machine (ala a PCI card?) without having to resort to an external capture device? It sounds like under the scenario you'd still have to have both the provider box and the Media Center machine separately hooked up to the HDTV and you'd constantly have to use the tv's remote control to switch input devices (which is annoying), and then if you wanted to import any HD programs from box to the Media Center you'd be forced to use the Firewire port for that. Tedious.
The Jeremy, there has been an effort to get firewire input into MCE with some success. You can search http://www.thegreenbutton.com to find it. There are also cards that handle s-video input, but that kinda defeats the purpose of HD. At this point, there are no component or DVI/HDMI capture options that will get you full-resolution HDTV on MCE. At this point, everyone's waiting for the promised CableCard support to come out with Vista as the one viable alternative to ATSC OTA HDTV (gotta love those acronyms!). BTW, I used the Kram drivers to get my HDTV Wonder working and then seamlessly added an AverMedia A180 to get a dual tuner setup. Works like a charm!
One thing missing here is that you will need an MPEG-2 decoder like NVidia's Purevideo decoder. OEMs install this on their MCE machines, but we do-it-yourselfers need to purchase one seperately.
Jeff,
Thanks for the info on that. But from what I've read, the agreement to get HD cable content on WMCE is for CableCard 1.0, which TiVo is passing up because TiVo is convinced the consumer will want VOD/PPV and other interactive features that will only be available with the CableCard 2.0 standard once its actually finalized.
I also did not think for a moment that the Firewire pass-through would be officially supported in WMCE considering the "piracy" implications. That would be similar to expecting TiVo to officially endorse the terrific *DirectShow Dump* program, or Apple recommending Project Hymn. :)
I have the ATI HDTV card installed on my computer with the the directv setup box on the analog side and an OTA RCA outside antenna on the HDTV side. I only have 5 OTA channels in my area. I have a 20" Dell wide screen monitor to watch these broadcasts. I would like to get an DIRECT HDTV receiver but there is no PC tuner card that handles the HDTV setup box. Or is there?
I really like what your doing here building a HDTV computer. I have one now and I am adding a HDTV TV tuner to it. I have a Radeon x300 series video card. The problem I have is it doesn't have a DVI out, just a VGA and svideo out. I am using the VGA now. Do I need a card with DVI for this to work? Thanks
Sorry, one more question. I forgot to mention I love my cable tv because I watch SCI FI and all that good stuff. What happens then? What do I need to do to still watch that
I just don't get it, MCE now offers HD capabilities but youe still need an analog tv card??? scratch, scratch. I have MCE '05, I've installed Hauppauge PV150 analog tuner. Also, bought a KWorld HDTV tuner. I couldn't get Kworld to recognize without wanting to disable MCE settings. But I kept switching cards analog/HDTV never using both at the same time. Honestly, too much BS when it comes to TV tuners and HDTV. Can't wait until the product matures. All in all, thoroughly happy with MCE05. Anyone have suggestions on MCE remote interference? My cordless logitech itouch steals the volume settings from MCE 's remote.