So far only only a few HD DVDs have rolled out with a Dolby TrueHD lossless audio soundtrack, and with good reason, the only players on the market didn't support it. But now, thanks to the
just-released 2.0 firmware, Toshiba HD-A1 owners everywhere can enjoy advanced audio. According to High-Def Digest, as long as you have a receiver that accepts audio via HDMI or analog 5.1 inputs (but not S/PDIF, sorry) you should be ready to go. Of course this is only worthwhile if there is a noticeable difference and by their report, there is with improved quality and surround sound effects. We look forward to more TrueHD enhanced releases, although you have to wonder what this will do to potential HD DVD/DVD combo releases that don't have the space for the movie and uncompressed audio. Given the benefit, the possiblity of bricking your HD DVD player during the update is but a miniscule risk (take any discs out before updating via the Ethernet port or it's to Toshiba customer support you must go.)
posted Aug 29th 2006 8:06PM
Can a firmware update add 1080p support, or is this a hardware limitation?
1080p support isn't necessary and won't gain you anything.
http://www.projectorcentral.com/blu-ray_2.htm
"feeding 1080i or 1080p into your projector or HDTV will give you the exact same picture. Why? Both disc formats encode film material in progressive scan 1080p at 24 frames per second. It does not matter whether you output this data in 1080i or 1080p since all 1080 lines of information on the disc are fed into your video display either way. The only difference is the order in which they are transmitted. If they are fed in progressive order (1080p), the video display will process them in that order. If they are fed in interlaced format (1080i), the video display simply reassembles them into their original progressive scan order. Either way all 1080 lines per frame that are on the disc make it into the projector or TV. The fact is, if you happen to have the Samsung Blu-ray player and a video display that takes both 1080i and 1080p, you can switch the player back and forth between 1080i and 1080p output and see absolutely no difference in the picture. So this notion that the Blu-ray player is worth more money due to 1080p output is nonsense."
That article is a tad misleading. Only a very few displays can deinterlace 1080i to 1080p, and even then only some of those do it right. In fact, most deinterlace 1080i24 to 1080p60, which is also a problem. The only consumer displays I know of that do the deinterlacing right, and to 1080p24, are the Sony Qualias, the Ruby projector, and the SXRD XBR TVs.
"although you have to wonder what this will do to potential HD DVD/DVD combo releases that don't have the space for the movie and uncompressed audio."
This won't be an issue once 30/9 combos come out (30GB on HD DVD side / 9 GB on DVD side). Besides, how is this different than single-layer HD DVDs that aren't combos? Why just single out combos?
Gabe, Xyzzy, I am under the same impression that both the Samsung BD and the Toshiba HD DVD players use the same exact Broadcom decoder chip, which outputs on hardware (not software) at 1080i.
Xyzzy, if you want to trust your display to deinterlace 1080 lines of information then so be it. Chances are it will more than likely use a simple 'bob' technique and drop half the fields (never to be seen again) and line-double the remaining 540 fields into 540+540 frames. Enjoy that sub-HD result.
Overseer, its not the disk capacity, but rather the use of a decoder chip encapable of affording enough bandwidth for internal processing of 1080 progressive lines at a time. The Samsung, for instance, employs another chip to deinterlace to a progressive output even though its only handline MPEG-2.
After some beta testing, version 2.0 of the firmware on Toshiba's HD DVD players A1 and XA1 is now available. The most noticeable feature you will get from this update is the ability to play back 5.1 Dolby TrueHD soundtracks through your analog outputs. Until now only two channels were supported.
"Overseer, its not the disk capacity, but rather the use of a decoder chip encapable of affording enough bandwidth for internal processing of 1080 progressive lines at a time. The Samsung, for instance, employs another chip to deinterlace to a progressive output even though its only handline MPEG-2."
GhostDoggy, my comment wasn't towards the processing of video or the 1080i/1080p debate. It was dealing with having space for TrueHD on combo discs.
Thanks.
So, how does Dolby TrueHD actually sound?
Do you need a TrueHD capable receiver in order to get the benefits of this? Or do you just need a receiver with either HDMI or analog 5.1?
If you are running HDMI from the player to the receiver then the receiver needs to be capable of decoding TrueHD. If the receiver can't decode TrueHD then the audio is sent as DTS instead.
If your receiver has analog inputs for 5.1 multichannel then the TrueHD decoding is done on the player and then sent to the receiver.
TrueHD is a compressed, lossless signal and provides a much clearer audio sound. TrueHD sounds absolutely gorgeous.
This is the ugliest player ever to exist!
I think that HighDef Digest is wrong when they say that you'll be able to listen to TrueHD over the HDMI output. TrueHD is first supported by HDMI 1.3, which the Toshiba's don't have.
However, you can listen to the TrueHD soundtracks over the analog audio outputs. (So yes, you'll need a receiver with 5.1 analog inputs.)
"Do you need a TrueHD capable receiver in order to get the benefits of this? Or do you just need a receiver with either HDMI or analog 5.1?"
Any receiver with a 5.1 analog input will do.
"I think that HighDef Digest is wrong when they say that you'll be able to listen to TrueHD over the HDMI output. TrueHD is first supported by HDMI 1.3, which the Toshiba's don't have."
This is WRONG. If you have HDMI (or analog 5.1) you will get TrueHD. You DON'T need it in the receiver (and you DON'T need HDMI 1.3) because the TrueHD track is decoded in the PLAYER and the PCM stream is sent to the receiver to play.
If the player didn't decode, you'd need HDMI 1.3, but since the player decodes, you're fine with either HDMI or Analog 5.1.
Wait I heard since the toshiba decodes True HD 5.1 w/ 2.0 update that u can send it over any HDMi as long as your receiver can decode the bitstream sent.
#14 - that's incorrect regarding HDMI. You CAN connect the player via HDMI to a receiver and the player decodes TrueHD (same as with analog). You only need HDMI v1.1.
#15 - You are correct.
It is my understanding that you can get TrueHD via HDMI as decoded uncompressed 5.1 channel LPCM, no? You will not be able to get the TrueHD signal out the HDMI port UNENCODED until there are receivers/prepros that can decode TrueHD, which don't exist at this time.
xyzzy - I appreciate the theory behind why you don't NEED 1080p output, and whether I agree with it or not, this doesn't answer my question, which was CAN the Toshiba be upgraded via firmware flash to output a 1080p signal. Just a question, not a commentary on whether or not it SHOULD.
Hey, Dave, watch the movie, not the player!
You dont need HDMI1.3 for Dolby TrueHD or DTSHD, you only need HDMI v1.1 With this the toshiba breaks up the the bitstream into the the 6 or 8 channel linear PCM. HDMI v1.3 will allow for your receiver to break the single up.
But it is doubtful you would here any differnce between the two as the signal still stays digital and your receiver still does any room eq, delay, frequency crossover, and all that other stuff that will be more probably suited for your surround processor. I have an Anthem D2, one of the best processing there is, and even they say they doubt I would ever hear any difference between the player and the processor decoding as long as your using HDMI and keeping the signal digital. If you use the analog out, then you need to reconvert all channels back to digital if you want to do any post processing. The point is decoding is pretty simple these days, its all the post processing that you need a good preamp processor or receiver for.
Also with the 1080p and 1080i, because neither blurray or hddvd does 1080p/24 you wont see any difference, and with bluray most people say they are getting better picture out of the samsung via component 1080i.