More details on Toshiba's European HD DVD launch
By Erik Hanson 
posted Sep 2nd 2006 3:09PM
posted Sep 2nd 2006 3:09PM
Following up from yesterday's announcement on Toshiba's European HD DVD launch plans, we've discovered a little more news that we didn't have then, including the price for the higher-end HD-XE1 model, for 999 Euros, or 672 British Pounds. The lower-end HD-E1 model will be 599 Euros (403 Pounds, or US $767). Toshiba plans to ship a first batch of 10,000 players from Japan in November, with further shipments depending on demand. They will release to the European market in three waves, first for the UK, France, and Germany, then followed by more of mainland Europe, with Eastern Europe and Iceland last.
No word on how many of each player is included in this number, although Toshiba defends the much higher prices compared to the US market by mentioning the smaller, slimmer design, and a few extra features when compared to the American models. The high-end player will have 1080p support, where the US models only have interlaced outputs.
Samsung also announced at the IFA show that their Blu-ray player will debut in October at 1,400 Euros, or close to US $1800. Even with European taxes to blame for some of this increase, it seems clear that the US models are subsidized in some way by both camps.Read or
Wow good Toshiba! I want it!
I been saving for the HD XA1 but I'm not sure if I should wait for one of these. Blu Ray SUCKS!!! Just look for the CNET reviews. It's just an over priced HD DVD that Sony wants to push down our throats and we dont need it nor want it. HD DVD ALL THE WAY BITCHES!!!!!
I will not buy toshiba`s crap. Its just a DVD upgrade. Blu-Ray is the true quality and best value :) Waiting for the Sony, BenQ, LG and Panasonic (all Blu-Ray) releases ;)
So, based on an earlier HDbet report one will wind up spending about $1,000 to get a 1080P player from Toshiba. So much for the price advantage over the BD players.
GhostDoggy,
Toshiba will still maintain a price advantage over Blu-ray in Europe...considering that the E1 will go for around £450 compared to the £900+ for the Samsung (ouch).
I do wonder though...does anybody still believe Toshiba when they say they are not taking a loss on their players? Seems to me like they don't care as much about the European market to see the need to slash the price of their players...
Note to Samsung: Your player will not sell
Note to Toshiba: Your player will sell about 5 players across Europe
Note to Sony: Make sure you advertise the Blu-ray ability of your games machine.
Can someone explain to me how HD-DVD is better when its only 720p while Blu-ray is 1080p? Isn't 1080p a higher resolution then 720p? A little confused here.
#6 - ALL HD-DVDs are encoded in 1080p. In addition, there's little to no difference between 1080p and 1080i -- all the lines of resolution are still there, it's just in how they're presented.
#4 - Currently at least, it's Blu-Ray that's crap. Toshiba's HD-DVD provides the best picture available to the consumer market.
#3 - As Steve J said, the Blu-Ray player is nearly $2,000 USD in Europe. so they still have a major price advantage. In addition, it apepars to me (correect me if I'm wrong) that the Samsung player being released there is the exact same one as in the States... Whereas Toshiba is releasing NEW players (although the feature set is not all that much different).
Phoenix,
Firstly, HD-DVD isnt JUST 720p. The 1st gen Toshiba player may only be capable of outputting 720p and 1080i, but many people don't believe it is so important to have 1080p. This is mainly because, depending on the size of your tv, you may not even notice the difference. This is assuming that your TV is even capable of displaying 1080p.
It's worth noting that it is likely that future HD-DVD players will more than likely be capable of outputting 1080p too. So if it's that important to you, and you want to go down the HD-DVD route...then wait a bit before you jump in.
As for why HD-DVD "is better". The picture quality of the first few HD-DVD releases is widely regarded to be better than the equivalent Blu-ray releases. However, this should become irrelevat when the Blu-ray camp starts to release their 50Gb disks (and/or starts to use a better codec).
This is not to say that the current Blu-ray releases aren't good though(for one thing, I havent seen them with my own eyes), it's just that the HD-DVD releases are slightly better...for now.
Steve, I agree with most of what you said except for the part of HD-DVD being "slightly better." Most reviews I've read are saying that it's not much better than SD-DVD and nowhere near as good as HD-DVD.
As you said, the gap should greatly close if Sony ever decides to start using a better codec and if they can ever produce BD-DL in any sort of quantity (I know a couple of movies have been announced, but Blu-Ray titles have been known to slip so I'll believe it when I see it).
Before any of you guys run out and buy a HD-A1, I would wait a couple of months. I bought one of the first Toshiba's released. BIG Mistake---I am currently on my 3rd. Machine. MY HD-A1 has spent more time in transit and repair than actual viewing time. I have had it for 5 days since the last repair, and it is preforming flawlessly---so far!!! The HD picture quality and sound is great. I am viewing HD disc on a Sony SXR60A2000. While I am on a roll I might as wall put in my opinion regarding the HD-DVD vs. BLU RAY. Us teckie's need our toys---sooo, go ahead and buy a HD DVD player.( its cheaper) and rent HD Disc. from one of the online DVD services( Blockbusters has the largest selections). By the time the HDDVD and the BLURAY issue works itself out you, HD will be at least 2 years old and the HD technology will have changed and you will be ready to buy a new HD player.
Current DVD's will also playback, but will be up-scalled to the highest resolution available to each machine.
I guess Toshiba is really expecting a lot of sales since they shipped a whole 10,000 unit for all of Europe! That brings total worldwide shipment to about 40,000. They only sold 20,000 so far. I'm sure it will beat out the PS3 at the same price point...LMAO! Even if Sony can't ship but 1 million of the promised 2 million units at launch time, that would still beat the pants of the HD-DVD effort. Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-ons won't even be available in Asia. Let's not even talk about the PC market.
HD-DVD doesn't even have a drive available besides in the Toshiba laptop. We should all know how this ends! Blu-ray IS the superior format and they will be all around you very soon!
I'd like to adress some of the things people have been saying here.
1) CODECS - The Codec used will NOT change (on Blu-ray Or HD-DVD). They both are currently using the same codec (H.264), and will continue to do so. It is very possible however, even likely that the bitrate and therefore image quality, will be increased in future Blu-Ray incarnations due to increased storage on the discs. There will be a hardware limitation on this however, due to a standard maximum data transfer rate when players read from the discs.
2) 1080i vs 1080p - These formats ARE NOT equal. 1080p is widely accepted as being of much superior quality. 1080i has the approximate visual quality of 720p (which, given the availability of 1080p, is not very HD).
3) I suspect that some of the price differential between the US & Europe lies in the fact that the US models are interlaced output only. This would make them cheaper (read: lower-end) models.
Johnnyc
If the originating content is 1080p then it does not matter if the output is 1080i or 1080p a good HDTV will do inverse telecine to throw out the extra frames and play the progressive content. There will be NO quality difference because every bit of the progressive video is displayed. 1080p would be superior if the orginating video on the disc was 1080i.
Both formats do indeed support h.264 and AVC and MPEG2 as well. Any codec advances will benefit both formats.
@johnnyc, #13:
1) WRONG. Almost all BD titles currently out now are MPEG-2. Some future BD releases are slated to be MPEG-4 (H.264), but AVC is NOT currently used by both. In fact, neither of them is using it in the US right now. All US HD-DVDs (except some stray some obscure HD TV channel's shows, like one or two discs) are encoded in VC-1, NOT H.264. And those very stray few in HD-DVD are MPEG-2. Some titles in HD-DVD in Japan are H.264, but none in the US are at this time. Both formats are capable of reading all these formats, but again, both ARE NOT using this same codec at this time.
2) WRONG AGAIN. 1080i run through most displays that properly handle the 3:2 pulldown give you the EXACT information, bit by bit, as 1080p. Where's this "widely accepted" nonsense published? 1080i and 1080p are both superior to 720p.
Hopefully, you haven't mislead people who don't know any better. You're a FUDdy guy.
Let's make it clear for some that might read some comments on this apge and conclude incorrectly-
HD-DVD and BRD for the most part are/will be equal
(so it comes down to price)
BRD disks are 1080p and So are HD-DVD disks
BRD players do 1080p, first gen Toshiba does not.
Toshiba does better audio currently
I mean it's really all nitpicking It comes down to price and do you want to spend cash on half the movies you like. If money is not an issue, the smart person will get an A1 for HD-DVD and a PS3 for BRD or wait a year and see what happens.
@ ILJG
Chill out captain agressive. Flaming aside now,
1) Ok, so I only addressed one of the 3 supported codecs. That was my oversight, I'm sorry. But the point that I was trying to make remains the same - both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray use the same codecs. So the advantage will be to which disc format supports higher data transfer and thus, lower compression.
2) 1080p is better than 1080i due to a number of issues caused by interlacing and/or de-interlacing. The resulting potential quality loss of 1080i (whether the displays used 'properly handle' the video or not) is close to, but slightly better than 720p. This is not something I'm inventing. Look up some High-definition video comparison charts, and you'll see for yourself.
Also, you're FUDdy as well. Whatever that means.
Cheers,
Yeah, I was basically just trying to say that the progressive format is of higher quality (as both a HDcam master AND as an encoded file). As far as dealing with individual player output abilities & TV display capabilities, there are many variables that can produce different image results.
It's just a shame an uniformed or non-tech-savy consumer has to try and manage all of the information.
Please, compare what is comparable.
For film-based material encoded at 24 fps (that is what is available on both formats), the difference between a 1080p/60 and 1080i/60 transmission is ZERO (in fact, 1080p/60 will transmit each individual pixel 2.5 times, which is utterly useless, and 1080i/60 will transmit each pixel 1.25 times). In fact, most 1080p displays do NOT accept, 1080p input, so the Blu-Ray player will output 1080i, which is not a problem since every pixel of every frame of the source will be transmitted and displayed.
1080p/24 transport exists, and takes less bandwidth than 1080i/60, but is only available on pro systems. In fact, guess what: most pro systems use 1080/24pSF, which is an interlaced 48Hz transmission of a 24 fps progressive source (because 24 Hz on a CRT would be unbearable).
If you want to compare TV-based 1080i/60 and 720p/60, then 720p is better, because more pixels are transmitted in the same amount of time, and we talk about 60 progressive and not 30 interlaced frames per second.
But even at 24fps, I don't see why everyone is slapping 720p. It is way, way better than SD, and it is real and true HD, as it is definitely part of the HDTV spec. I have a 720p projector at home, and it displays gorgeous images with any capable HD source. Don't believe the "full HD" hype, it is pure unadulteradted fanboyism.