Xbox 360 HD DVD playback: Maximum 1080i via component, 1080p VGA-only
By Richard Lawler 
posted Sep 21st 2006 2:46PM
posted Sep 21st 2006 2:46PM
We still don't know the US price or launch date, but we've got a bit more specifics on how the Xbox 360 HD DVD player add-on will work when it hits store shelves later this year thanks to a post by Microsoft insider Amir M. on AVS Forum. When Microsoft revealed yesterday it will support 1080p HD DVD and 1080p DVD upconversion we were surprised because it's commonly accepted that the CSS (DVD) and AACS (HD DVD & Blu-ray) copyright provisions wouldn't allow that (although some manufacturers have looked the other way before) via unprotected analog connections. We were right, sort of. Even after the software upgrade this fall, via component cables, the Xbox 360 will still only upconvert DVDs to 480p, and will play HD DVD movies at a maximum resolution of 1080i. To get 1080p output for movies, you must use a VGA cable, which is not subject to the same copyright restrictions. This just means the Xbox 360 is just like every other HD DVD and Blu-ray player on the market, but you wouldn't know that by reading Microsoft's press releases yesterday. If you ran out and bought a 1080p HDTV yesterday don't return it just yet, you should be able to get equal picture quality to 1080p if your TV processes the incoming signal correctly, and if it supports 1080p via component you can still play upconverted and native-1080p games . We're still waiting to hear exactly how HD DVD's advanced audio capabilities will be handled by the 360 and oh yeah...a US price, please Microsoft?.Update: Added list of supported resolutions after the break.
To break it all down what you will get from the Xbox 360 after this fall's software update:
VGA:
- HD DVD - 1080p resolution and all others
- DVD - Upscaled as high as 1080p resolution and all others
- Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future
- HD DVD - 1080i resolution maximum, limited by AACS
- DVD - Upscaled to 480p maximum, limited by CSS
- Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future
I got the HD DvD player for my 360 and i think it works pretty good with the VGA cable. Im putting out full 1080p resulotion at 60 hz.. and im using a 46 inch Sharp LCD thats capable of doing 1080p at 120 hz. Although Halo 3 does look a little pixelated because it can only do 24 hz. Im looking forward to getting the madcatz HDMI conversion kit so i can go HDMI which will probably give me a crisper picture. Oh btw with the component cable as mentioned b4 you can only put out 1080i vs. the 1080p that gets put out on VGA. And for those of you that dont think theres much of a difference trust me there is , it is very visible. B4 i got the VGA cable i watched the king kong movie that came with the HD DVD player in 1080i and it came out looking very grainy with some digital noise in some of the scenes, but when i got the VGA cable and watched it again in 1080p at 60hz it was much crisper and had absolutly no digital noise what so ever which is a good thing for those HD noobs out there reading this.
Not really a big deal given most people dont own 1080p TVs and for those who do most of those TVs are 1080p/60 and not 1080p/24 which is what movies are encoded in. For those who do care about something that minor, they would probably buy the new Toshiba with HDMI1.3 anyways, at $499
I am disappointed about the upscale though, the Xbox has enough processing power to do this, so they should of had DVD upscale, there is no excuse for not having this feature.
That's cool, my TV doesn't do 1080p and I won't be upgrading to a 1080p set for at least 2 years.
By then, if HDDVD succeeds, I (and most of the guys who would buy into hddvd so early) will probably have a dedicated player.
So then the VGA cable will allow the 360 to upconvert regular DVDs with the fall update that's happening? Or will they "require" me to buy the HD-DVD addon for that feature?
Interesting, so will the 360 upscale a DVD to 720p or 1080p on the VGA connection? This article makes it sound like the upscaling is not supported through component output. My 720p DLP HDTV has a VGA connector, maybe I'll start using it with the 360 when the HD DVD drive is released.
So this update will increase teh resolutions the VGA cable outputs? Right now it can't even do 1080i let alone 1080p, and it doesn't support my monitor's native resolution of 1680x1050. I can only hope that the update will support my monitor's resolution. Would a small DVI-VGA adapter like those that come with video cards work on a TV with a DVI input? I wouldn't want to mess up my HDTV to find out, but I don't know why it wouldnt. Anyone know if it works?
#3 - The Spring Update enabled upconverting to 720p and 1080i. I don't see any reason why the Fall Update wouldn't allow upconverting without the HD-DVD addon.
These same restrictions apply to the PS3 though, right? The $500 version has no HDMI and the $600 doesn't come with HDMI cables.
Bad news #1...the Toshiba HD-DVD player with HDMI 1.3 is $899, not $499. The low-end model doesn't have HDMI 1.3.
JET
I'm a little confused. Right now with a VGA cable you can have your DVDs upconverted to 720p... will that remain? Or are they removing it with the update.. it would suck to go back down to 480p on DVDs...
Not a big deal really as all MS has to do is add a HDMI cable and you will have full 1080p support just like the PS3...oh wait they have a $499 unit that has zero HDMI support.
Also the US price for the HD-DVD addon will be announced next week at X06
So could I, after the Fall update, purchase a VGA to DVI adapter and have my DVD's running throught the 360 upconverted to 1080i, rather than seeing them at 480p using component cables?
Thanks!
Why the hell is 1080p DVD upscaling and HD DVD output authorized on a VGA output and not on a component output ? With good component cables, quality should be better than VGA (better interconnects, usually better shielding of each signal in the cable too).
Do you know of any 1080p-capable recorder with component inputs ? I mean, an affordable one ? And who in their right mind would record upscaled video ?
All this stuff is just plain stupid. And if someday the enable the constraint token, I suggest we shove their HD DVDs and Blu-Rays where the sun never shines.
> Interesting, so will the 360 upscale a DVD to 720p or 1080p on the VGA connection?
As of RIGHT NOW it will upscale to 720p with a VGA cable--I am doing it now with my 44'' 720p DLP. I am confused as to how this will change with the upcoming update though...
According to the AACS Interim Adopter Agreement (Last updated 2/15/2006) even VGA output has to be constrained if the ICT token is enabled. This applies to Component as well.
How is Microsoft allowing VGA, but not Component?
Crap! I wanted DVD upconversion over component. I wanted it bad.
This is pretty cool. I own the VGA cable and have a 1080p TV/monitor with a VGA connection.
7. Travis Bell:
"I'm a little confused. Right now with a VGA cable you can have your DVDs upconverted to 720p... will that remain? Or are they removing it with the update.. it would suck to go back down to 480p on DVDs..."
did you even read this whole thing before posting this comment?
Yes, of course it will remain. Why wouldn't it? What possible reason would they have for removing 720p support? Come on, seriously now.
Can't you get a vga to component adapter?
(I swear I've seen these.)
Since when is 480p "upscaling"
This "huge announcement" from microsoft sure has turned sucky.
You can get a VGA transcoder to convert the VGA back to component or use a VGA-to DVI and Then a DVI to HDMI adapter (Just be careful not to fry your HDTV with a bad res.setting)
what do you mean when you say be careful not to fry your hdtv? is it dangerous to use connectors in the fashion you are describing?
This is strange as the Microsoft RGBhv cable (aka VGA) does not currently support 1080i or 1080P. Before the original launch of the 360, Microsoft claimed their VGA cable would support 1080i, which I was greatly interested in. Within days of the 360 launch, many reported back that the VGA cable wouldn't support 1080i. Then Microsoft change the information on the Xbox website to exclude 1080i support for VGA.
I feel that Microsoft is selling its customers short when claiming, denouncing, and now reclaiming VGA 1080i support. Why should it matter if VGA supports 1080p, as introducing interlacing for all of those multisync television monitors using VGA 1080i are being snubbed.
Ahh this is perfect match for my 42in Westinghouse 1080p lcd because it has a vga input! But how much difference does it make? I current have the HD-A1 hooked up via hdmi and it only does 1080i. The second gen hddvd players can do 1080p but they also cost about a $1000. The xbox360 hddvd drive looks like a steal. Hopefully they have a solution to handle dolby truehd - but even if it does not.. for xbox 360 owners, this is a steal. For people who don't have vga inputs.. there are devices that convert vga to hdmi or component.
David, if your set deinterlaces properly 3:2 pulldown video (which is exactly how your HD-DVD player outputs 1080i/60 from the 1080p/24 material on the disc), there will be no difference at all between a 1080i and 1080p connection.
But, with the VGA input of your TV, you'll be able to get the sweet 1080p/60 output by the few (if any) XBox360 video games that will benefit from this new feature.
By the way, how's your sister ?
For me, It'll be a good VGA switch in order to be able to get the DVDs upscaled to 720p, the native rez on my projector, while still keeping my HTPC. Or I'll just use my LG plyer who outputs very good 1080i over component (unfortunately it sucks in 720p), CSS or not. I just hope Microsoft doesn't fracks the 720p downrezzing of HD-DVDs as 1st-gen Toshiba players alledgedly do.
>As of RIGHT NOW it will upscale to 720p with a VGA cable--I am doing it now with my 44'' 720p DLP. I am confused as to how this will change with the upcoming update though...
Nothing should change for you. They're only adding the ability to go to 1080p through the VGA cable. You should still get upconverted DVDs at 720p.
Well, this only means MSFT will have to release an HDMI cable now.
Looks like Sony put HDMI into the lowest PS3 now. Don't worry guys, you'll get your full 1080p!
@ColourSource
Yes but does your TV accept 1080p through VGA?
to my knowledge (which isn't that much) there is no 1080p television available that will display 1080p through VGA. All the ones I have seen are DVI/HDMI only.
MS will likely add a HDMI cable soon enough, don't fret. But the sooner the beter.
Anyone curious about a TV that supports 1080p via VGA here is the one I have:
Westinghouse 42" 1080p LCD Monitor
http://www.westinghousedigital.com/pc-44-7-42-1080p-monitor.aspx
It just received a price drop at Best Buy this week and also includes a free Philips 1000 watt 5.1 surround sound w/progressive dvd player. ;)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7699163&st=1080p&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1138084694260
Sale: $1,599.99
And finally, that VGA cable needed (better than Microsoft's):
VGA Cable for Xbox 360
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7589175&st=xbox+vga&lp=2&type=product&cp=1&id=1130979909963
gotta love MS PR... tout 1080P output just like they touted Winning 11 and GTA IV exclusivity; talk first, make headlines, then release actualy facts in a press release quitely that backtrack on what they originally said... what is up with the marketing people at MS??? I mean just sell the system you made - it's great with really good games backing it up. They better just be careful and not drop support too quickly like they did with the first Xbox... if they do that I'm not supporting another MS console ever!
Now back to Lego Starwars II :-)
I'm glad I did rush out and buy one when they first came out.
Dang 480p will be the max for DVDs via component. I just don't understand it, your tv is allowed to upscale but your dvd player can not! What a world!
Could someone please explain to me why dvd upscaling over component is not allowed? It seriously seems the dvd industry hates us who bought component only hdtvs early and will do anything to ensure we don't enjoy the best experience till we buy yet another tv. I was told hdtv was the future so I thought it was a safe buy but here we are.
I still wish I knew why they promote non-true HD solutions when HDMI is the true HD solution. Pushing VGA is only them saying, "Hey, we messed up by not making it an easy possibility, and I'll have Major Nelson talk about how bad HDMI looks on his poscast, thus relieving us of our duty to provide true HD content, even though we are in the self-proclaimed 'HD Era'!"
Whatever.
WTF makes VGA and component non "true hd" solutions?
#1, there is nothing about 1080p that makes it "truer" than 720p or 1080i. These are all HD.
#2, both VGA and component are perfectly capable of carrying 1080p. Seriously. A huge number of 1080p hdtvs have VGA inputs that can take 1080p (jvc, westinghouse, sceptre, samsung, etc), and some can take 1080p over component.
You just got sucked in to Sony's PR blather. Learn the facts.
And, for what it's worth, there is no real reason to worry about 1080p vs 1080i for bluray/hddvd. On-disc, they're 1920x1080x24p, 24 full frames per second. 1080i, at 60 half frames per second, is capable of carrying every frame in its entirety with no problems.
Now, if the player or the display have crappy deinterlacers, you might care, but that's rarely the case.
So don't worry about dropping the extra $300 for 1080p output. Also don't worry about hdmi 1.3, since I doubt you currently have a display that can do 48-bit color, and I really doubt you will in the next 5 years, at which point a better hddvd player without a 60 second boot up time will be $50.
@Shmoe
Not to sound rude, but don't you think with all the demand Billsoft would've released an HDMI cable by now? I recall having read somewhere that "if they could just make a cable for it they would have." I guess it might have something to do with the GPU. It's possible that they didn't think it was going to become that much of a selling point this early on. It is possible that they will sell one, but it's also possible that they won't.
i hope blueray makes it, HD DVD is microsoft, so i hate it;-)
HD DVD "is" Toshiba. Get your facts straight. Microsoft *supports* HD DVD.
Picking out an HD-TV for gaming and movies isn't as easy as I thought it would be. It seems the more I research the more I find out that there is no solve all HD-TV. Why can't some manufacturer make my perfect TV?
I'm disappointed
xbox 360 has problem no display but light come green
HDMI has been anounced for the 360....
News:
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=443405
PreOrder:
http://www.ebgames.com/product.asp?cookie_test=1&product_id=802523
HD DVD Priced, $199.99, not bad I'm buying one :)
Aww dammit! I just purchashed a Sony 70" SXRD 1080p television for my bedroom for seven grand. It has a PC RGB (VGA?) input, but the manual says it won't display at
1080p via PC input and that the screen will be smaller than the whole
screen. Does this mean I'm screwed?
Some more fuel for the fire: what about 'normal' VGA screens? Like PC monitors etc. I have this huge 19inch iiyama VM 454, that does 2048x1538 max, and accepts widescreen input too (just have to fiddle a bit with the screen size). It will crunch 1920x1080 (eg:1080p) with ease. Problem is that VGA display options never mention anything about HD, these nothing with 1080 vertical lines in the options, only 1280x7xx and 1380x720 ultra wide, plus a few smaller settings. Question: will i and all other VGA users ever get something resembling 1920x1080 om my CRT? (the article says HD VGA will do 1080p by VGA, but since at this moment theres a difference between VGA to HD TV and VGA to a CRT im not sure what this means for me)
It probably does.... :(
I need HELP with the Ucontrol on the MIAMI VICE HD/DVD Combo Disc!!! I have the 360HD Drive and every time I turn on the Ucontrol it comes up with an error msg. and then shuts down the drive!!! But what I don't get is why does the Ucontrol work for KING KONG and not MIAMI VICE ??????? I'am thinking their needs to be an update for this from Microsoft.
I spent a bunch of hours and I did numerous tests with 1080p xbox360 and PS3 and what works and doesn't work. Also did a comparison of Dish and Directv.. Check it out at:
http://www.bellumgessi.com/content/Geek.htm
Good job, putting that doc together, very informative
Thanks
I own a 1080p set that is 1080p running at 60mhz. You state movies are encoded at 1080p running at 24mhz. What does your HDMI 1.3 comment mean please.