Xbox 360 HDMI rumor rides again
By Richard Lawler 
posted Nov 21st 2006 1:18PM
posted Nov 21st 2006 1:18PM
What do you get the console that has everything for? An HD DVD player, some high-def movie downloads, maybe a new game or two. We're not so good at wrapping stuff, so we brought yet another Xbox 360 HDMI cable rumor on the eve of the one year anniversary of the console's launch in North America. These pictures claim to be from the back of an upcoming Lost Planet / Xbox 360 bundle package taken by the employee of a Japanese games shop. In various forum threads allegations of photoshop chicanery have arisen, although some commenters claim knowledge of a Microsoft statement that it's real, but merely a misprint. The 360 is no longer alone in the next-gen gaming market and HDMI is due at some point to keep up with the 
If they released an HDMI cable and then allowed DVD upconversion through the HD DVD addon, I would buy it in a heartbeat. I'm doing fine at 1080i through component, but DVD upconversion would be a big plus, and if ICT is ever turned on.
why does dvd upconvert have to happen through the hd dvd drive? why can't they do that through the console's native drive? isn't it just software processing?
Upconvert works thought the built in 360 DVD drive, but both drives still need VGA to meet the standards for outputting a DVD movie at HD resolution.
First Hand experence , even at 1080i using Component the Xbox HD-DVD drive looks better then PS3 Blu Ray using HDMI ... I have watched about 4 movies on each and each time , the HD-DVD wins .. Using the new Sony SXRD 60" XBR2 1080P
I was under the impression that the built in DVD drive and the HD DVD addon did not "technically" do upconversion, they just do progressive scan. Although they do look much better than my stand alone DVD player.
I would not want to play DVDs period on my built in drive because if that burns out then you're in a world of hurt. With the addon I'm not worried about it. It's not that it would have to be through the addon.
....continued. Also I will not be buying a new TV just have VGA input compatibility.
Why can't upconversion work via component? I don't quite understand why people claim that as if HDMI is the only means by which 1080 resolution can be produced.
component is analog, and it doesn't carry as much analog information as VGA
hdmi is all digital so that your system never has an analog signal subject to information loss; your system never converts to analog and then samples an analog signal.
It's the difference between copying a CD to your computer hdd at full resolution v. copying your cd to the hdd via the analog input on the back of your sound card (or to an audio tape and then to the sound card)
btw, hdmi can pass any signal: 480i, 480p, 1080p, whatever. Upconverting from the 480i on the dvd is only as good as your upconversion algorithm, so if it's transferred to the tv via hdmi, and scaling is all that's required, there should be no difference between the 360 outputting 480i or 1080p. With component or VGA, you should see a better picture if the xbox upconverts b/c you're getting more data to the tv for it to sample and scale to its native resolution (losing a little 1080p data to noise won't make near the picture difference that losing a little 480i data to noise will).
The xbox 360 does up-convert dvd, but only through the vga connection.
""The xbox 360 does up-convert dvd, but only through the vga connection.""
No MikesOnline...you've got that wrong. My 360 is upconverting DVD's just fine to 1080i over component cables. You do not need a VGA cable to upconvert normal DVD's. This is clearly stated on Microsofts website. But you do need the VGA cable to output 1080p to televisions that won't accept 1080p over component. Which from what I understand most televisions won't accept 1080p over component.
But remember...1080p will give you miniscule to no improvement over 1080i at screen sizes less than 55". AVS Forum, ARS Technica, Cnet.com ...and many other folks have come to this same conclusion.
not another HDMI story
sounds like a good idea to me
I hope they come out with it, otherwise itd be a waste of money on my part for the hdmi port on my lcd.
Will come in handy when HDCP starts showing its ugly head
I don't think you can solve this with a cable. It would require new hardware.
I hope Microsoft comes out with this soon and the Capcom deal I hope they buy Square Enix too.
I thought the XBOX 360 can only output an analog signal. Wouldn't the chipset in the 360 need to be updated to output an HDMI digital signal?
You're wrong. The xbox 360 will only display DVDs at 480p using the component cables. It will scale them to up to 1080p using vga, however.
See:
http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/hardware/x/xbox360componenthdcable/
http://www.xbox.com/en-GB/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/
(both are out of date, since they don't mention 1080p, but the upconversion rules haven't changed with the fall dashboard update).
HDMI/DVI don't have any error correction, and since they're digital, they don't degrade cleanly.
On short cable runs this generally isn't a problem, but as the length of the run increases, you tend to get sparklies (kind of like random snow) or the picture will cut out completely.
With analog you don't have this problem, since it degrades cleanly. Furthermore, it takes a lot longer of a cable run on component cables before you start seeing degradation than on DVI.
I would suggest anyone curious about the benefits/drawbacks of DVI (and HDMI) vs Component/VGA read:
http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/122868.html
No matter what, component and VGA are screwed for hddvd/bluray if the ICT gets turned on on some discs. That's undeniable.
Whether you get better quality from digital or analog transmission methods, though, is very much up for debate.
All I can recommend is that you do a side by side comparison of all your devices that can output both component and DVI... try it on your hd cable box, or your standalone hd-dvd player/bluray player. You might find one looks better with DVI and the other with component.
Your set might even look better with analog sources, because it may turn off all of its own signal filters for the digital inputs.
Don't trust what you've read online, trust your eyes. Give component a shot, head to head, in a blind test if you can (have someone else switch between component/dvi). You might be surprised... or you might not be.
I'm fairly certain it doesn't upconvert over analog component cables because of licencing issues from the DVD group - last I checked, and it was a while ago, all the upconverting DVD players included HDMI or DVI-HCDP - god forbid anyone "steal" their crappy 480p content...
Same type of agreements prevent hybrid HD-DVD/blu ray players.
My reply above was in reply to Jon..
Also in reply to Jon:
1080i and 1080p isn't what the debate is about, for most people. The general comparison is 1080p vs 720p. Those comparisons about whether or not 1080p is worth it are for people who have the option to go to 1080p at all, which is only people on fixed-pixel displays.
People on CRTs don't have the 1080p option.. all they have is 1080i.
As for whether 1080p is worth it over 720p, well, it depends on your set, viewing distance, etc. For most people, 1080p probably won't be noticable.
If you have a fixed pixel display that doesn't support 1080p, I'd recommend just using 720p from your 360. Why lose the frames (going from 60 full frames to 60 half frames per second) by scaling, interlacing, deinterlacing, and scaling again? Just send your display 720p.
If you have a CRT, well, keep using 1080i.
If you have a 1080p display, and you can't send your TV 1080p over component or VGA, I'd recommend going with 720p except for HD-DVD playback, where you'd probably be better off doing 1080i.
Yeah, if you want to upconvert dvd you need a "protected" output.
For whatever reason, VGA counts as a protected output. I think it was a concession to the computer industry, so people could play their DVDs full screen on their computers.
There are upconverting dvd players out there that don't require HDCP (the oppo dv971h, for instance, is an excellent one that has unencrypted DVI out), but the vast majority require hdcp, because they'd get in trouble if they didn't.
And they don't want to use VGA, because although DVI+HDCP/HDMI don't have stellar penetration at the moment (it's good, just not great), it's still higher than VGA's penetration on hd sets.
Isnt it about time they released this kind of cable? Why are they holding out, whats the big deal?
"Upconvert works thought the built in 360 DVD drive, but both drives still need VGA to meet the standards for outputting a DVD movie at HD resolution." Too bad that Microsoft is ignoring the millions of rear-projection 1080i televisions out there equipped with VGA that cannot benefit from this. I sent in a support ticket and attenpted to post as such in their Technican Issues forum (got moderated before posting to the Wishlist & Feedback forum) and they wouldn't admit anything electronically. Instead they wished to tell me by phone that 1080i VGA is not supported.
Strange, they can output interlace 1080i for Component video, but not for rgbhv (VGA), and 1080i consumes half the bandwidth of 1080P. And while I commend them on offering 1080P on VGA, I have to wonder what Microsoft was thinking when deciding not to offer the more appropriate choice for 1080 VGA (their brains are stuick in the PC world and PC monitors and not the consumer electronics world).
So, is there a definitive answer on whether your Xbox 360 can upconvert without the HD-DVD Drive, using only VGA cables? I just picked up the HD-DVD drive, but if I can get the same resolution using the internal drive of the 360, I rather return the HD-DVD.
After downloading the October update that had the 1080p upgrade, I tested the 360 by playing a scene from Beautiful Mind to see if it looked as good as it did when I watched it on HBO HD, and it didn't match the performance. If I used a VGA cable, will that make much of a difference with the picture quality?
The advantage to having an HD DVD addon is to play HD DVDs and to not burn out your internal DVD drive by playing movies. Watching Beautiful Mind on HBO HD and then on an DVD upconversion player is never going to be a fair comparison. An upconverted DVD is never going to match true HD source. Using a VGA cable will possibly make a small difference, that depends on your TV.
http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/1190/Xbox-360-Interview-Todd-Holmdahl/p1/
Read that and learn!
So, how does this work with games? VGA vs. Component?
Picture quality and ICT issues aside, EVERYONE seems to be overlooking the fact that with the HD-DVD add on, you cannot fully enjoy the optional DolbyTrueHD on most HD-DVD's without a HDMI cable. Yes, your receiver needs to have HDMI switching as well, but hey, they are out there. This is why stand alone players should be used for the true enthusiast, and not an "add-on". But for the rest of us/them, lets keep hoping for the damn thing!