Do people even want PCs in their living room?
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Mar 30th 2007 10:49AM
posted Mar 30th 2007 10:49AM
One of the least expensive ways to get HD is to take a computer and add an inexpensive ATSC tuner, but how many people actually want to do this? The concept of a HTPC isn't very new and while it is very popular in certain circles, can it ever go mainstream? Some people would certainly argue yes, but recent news from HP indicates something different; HP has announced that they will no longer have a HTPC line. HP isn't the only one either, Dell has never had one and Apple opted for an iTunes extender (Apple TV). While we certainly appreciate the benefits of a HTPC, are they worth the cost, size, noise and hassles? Even many MCE 2005 fans prefer to use an Xbox 360 to connect to the TV. When it comes right down to it, most people want their home theater experiences to be drop dead simple, after all, isn't trying to relax the whole point of a home theater?
>> most people want their home theater experiences to be drop dead simple
I think that's what TiVo does. It handles limited formats, but that's all "most people" need.
people who like technology and who have lots of music/video and like having it available anywhere in there house do. It's just a matter of time before generic PC functions (full featured browsing, music, video, email, etc) are considered standard issue in living rooms. The Wii has proven that living room based web browsing is viable and can be done very well and that's with a system that's not HD. It would be even better in 720 or 1080.
Jsn,
"It would be even better in 720 or 1080."
Yes and no. I'm now using my ps3 at home for my web browsing, the ps3 browser not firefox.
HD does add a little bit but I spend a lot of my time zoomed in to read text. I zoom out,to hd, to look at a couple of pages at a time. I think that easially could be replacated in SD.
This all applies to text and of course browsing from across the room. When I sit right up to the TV I use HD but then it's almost the same as using a PC.
Funny fact
Engadget renders in the PS3 browser.
EngadgetHD does not.
Are you joking?
MS has sold a bizillion media center PC's and that number will only improve with Vista out-the-door.
People want access to their digital media now - if they ever figure out that anything like this is possible they will throw out their boat-anchor vcr/dvd/ps-3/wee's so fast...
The big promlem with the PC in my HT room is that you limit the use of the PC for that one purpose it makes using for "Traditional" PC painful. Nobody likes writing a word doc 10 feet away and the ergonmics suck. When my daugher wants to send an email do I stop watching my movie? Makes no sense and not everyone can have 5 or 6 PC's floating around the house and it's not like an real HTPC is cheap.
The real motivator for having a PC is being able to not only recorded TV but having one media collection (movies, pictures, MP3 and recorded TV) that all devices point to. I just got sick and tired of having so many dupes of MP3 and pictures I spent the time and put them on one PC so all devices in my house see the same collection. Also ripping my childrens DVD's to HDsk saves me buying them again when they get trashed.
With Vista all PC's are HTPCs but as Tech guy who works with a HT company what is happening is this. The major vendors offer the same functionality (TV Tuners etc) out of there machines but Vista has made the whole HTPC moot. The PC is becoming the media hub of the house serving media to the various devices in the house.
My home I have HTPC that is used as a PC and a Secondary TV. The XBOX 360 is hooked up to my projector so I play games and use the media center connector which brings all the content seemlessly from my PC without having to have someone logoff the PC for me to play my games or media or worse kick them out the room.
Media connectors are by far a better solution to media consolidation.
I actually use my 360 more for this purpose that games. I might even buy a another base unit just for this purpose for my bedroom.
300 bucks for a media extender / pvr /dvd player actually is not a bad deal. :)
I contemplated getting a mod chip and turning my original Xbox into a MCE for my bedroom. I currently use my 360 in my living room as one. I think Id rather do that, or upgrade to the 360 Elite in the living room and moving my premium 360 to the bedroom. Not sure, it would def. be cheaper to mod up the original Xbox.
or this may be a justification to get one them sexy black 360 elite units ..:)
HP is foolish for killing this. If they had just updated the damn thing with Core 2 Duo or upcoming Quad core processors, added a Bluetooth keyboard/mouse, ultra quiet fans or liquid cooling and most importantly Cable Cards, they would have a killer.
Surfing the web on the HT .. To me this has always seem like a really cool but kind of useless feature. It's like playing RTS games on a console, not quite the technology / application mix.
IMHO the best web surfing experience will be KB + Mouse and most HD displays still dont look as nice as good monitor when up close. Adding a PC and mouse to a console I think is one of those "I have a hammer I hope this problem is nail" kind of solutions.
PC in living room, no. Access to PC from living room, Yes. HTPCs survive simply because media connectivity through traditional home theater systems is pathetic. The fact that everyone tells me I need to buy an xbox to fulfill all my non-gamimg home entertainment needs is testament to this.
Also, they needed to update to Vista and include a universal remote that could turn on the TV and other devices as well.
I sure don't. The PC should be stuffed in the garage somewhere and not bother anyone, but what the means is extenders have to improve dramatically. They must be able to support anything the PC would would through MCE.
Right now the 360 has a couple critical failure points. A good number of plug in's don't work. You can't install plug in's via the extender. It's way to noisy and runs way to hot. It's biggest failing the is failure to support xvid, divx, mpeg4 etc. Anything I can play on my MCE I must be ablet to playback remotely on the extender. We of course are also missing soft sled though Orb helps
How is this for a setup?
- 72in 1080P Monster
- Surrounded by 4 19in PC monitors
(with RGB & S-Composite video ins)
- Cable HiDefx1 Sat HiDefx1 Cable digitalx2
(Tuner S-outs to 19in, HDMI out to 72in)
- 4 port HDMI switch box
- Hand built acrylic cased HTPC (by me:)
- With 1 ATI video card feeding the center 72in
- And a 4 head Matrox feeding the side monitors
- Onkyo/Bose 7.1 Audio System
- Oh, and PS3 (this all in the Den)
As you can see we had a great time during the college bowl games.
http://www.eternal-champions.com/images/den_football_madness.jpg
My friends setup is sick (A sick setup for a for a sick bastage).
Oh and yes we want PCs in the living room. ;^)...
I have a PC in my living room (one of the HP HTPCs, as it happens). I don't use it for web surfing, writing Word files, etc -- I have a handful of other computers for that purpose. But if I want to watch downloaded DiVX/XViD video from any other PC on my network, watch a DVD from anywhere in the world, play music from any of my iTunes or other libraries, blah blah blah, it's perfect for the job.
These things just need to be cheaper and smaller. Once they are, people will understand.
support xvid, divx, mpeg4
Given that the 360 uses basically RDP (Terminal Services) to access the media PC this "should be already there" I suspect some stupid DRM crappy (insert string of about 1000 swear words) BS is getting in the way. But I also have seen a few very good hacks that get this working but I really wish MS would get out of DRM joke that we all know it to be.
Noise though, I dont really think is a factor with new PC's, I just got brand new dell that I can't hear with head jammed up to the side of case. Just a fantasitic machine, is it me or are Core 2 machines da bomb?
My preference is for the digital media extenders, ie. TVIX 5000, Roku HD1000, Rapsody N35, along with a NAS (Network Attached Storage) instead of the Media PC. While these latest crop of these digital media extenders have issues I think these type of devices have more promise than the Media PC. These type of extenders offer up to 1080i and with a NAS you don't have the headache of a dedicated PC.
My 2 cents.
HTPC and HD Video has two very irritating features:
1.
HDMI has "overscan" that makes the display to scale the the desk top larger than the native sensor resolution -> in order to see the full desk stop you need to use smaller resolution ... WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY STUPID .. just use DVI instead of HDMI.
2.
If you have a normal DVI display, you typically cannot watch HD video on desk top because the displays don't support HDCP that is requested for HD video. So you cannot watch HD video without connecting to VGA insted of DVI ... WHICH AGAIN IS ABSOLUTELY STUPID ... just don't use DVI at all ...
There is practically no way to watch HD video in HTCP today.
Just forget HTCP ...
best regards,
FiveDotOne
PC's are way to expensive to ever really make it into everyones living room. NICE 72in setup though man. THe 360 and PS3 are basically CPU's for home theaters. More people need to reconize this and use them for what their are capible of. Especially the PS3. I hate to bring it up and start a spit fight. But the PS3 can hold 60 gigs of your Pics and Videos(expandable to what you want.) It plays games at 60Fps in 1080p on a 60" T.V.(1080p capable) that can go on without having to change disks for a long time thanks to storage. It plays a form of HD media that has lots of Titles, good ones, that keep growing. For $599 you can lose. Don't give me this BD won't make it. If the Ps3 only sells half of what the Ps2 sells there will be around 60 million PS3's. If it matches or sells better that's 115 million+. No studio can ignore that kind of istall base. The future of CPU in the Living room is the console(PS3).
"For $599 you can lose."...Wow that was the worst typo ever! I ment to say you can't lose at $599, and and the Price goes down it just gets sweeter and sweeter for J6P. Sorry again, please add an edit option Engadget!!!!
and and. Wow now I'm going to bed!!!
The answer, at least for me, is yes. Not for computing though. I want the PC to be used for media applications (streaming video, music, or displaying photos) and games.
Joe Maki: "I think that's what TiVo does. It handles limited formats, but that's all "most people" need."
Who said anything about 'need'? I do not need a house, TV, car, Internet, etc., but I sure as heck WANT it--all of it, really.
Joe Maki: "I think that's what TiVo does. It handles limited formats, but that's all "most people" need."
Who said anything about 'need'? I do not need a house, TV, car, Internet, etc., but I sure as heck WANT it--all of it, really.
This is ridiculous! A PVR for all intents and purposes is the SAME THING as an HTPC. If they can make those quiet enough, they SHOULD be able to make HTPC's quiet enough as well. HDMI ports are just beggining to show up mainstream PC's motherboards / video cards & HDTV's are finally arriving with native 1920 X 1080 progressive which is FINALLY the resolution needed to display a PC properly on an HDTV (minimum proper 4 X 3 resolution is 1280 X 1024) and video cards are actually starting to support full 16 X 9 1920 X 1080 resolutions. HP is just plain dumb and fails to realize that, with 1080P panels, the merge of home theater and PC's is finally here... they are jumping off the train right before it arrives at it's final destination... IDIOTS!!!
P.S. As far as "crashing" and "stability" is concerned, all you need is a more robust O/S with key areas LOCKED UP so users cannot affect the overall performance of the HTPC. People that want more "tweakability" don't want an HTPC... they want a PC in the living room... that's fine too. HTPC's should be very limited in there overall functionality and tweakability therefore making them idiot/crash resistant.
Hi
Just had a system installed by TV and Video Direct from Bolton.
Instead of using XBOX 360's I have a 9 terrabyte server with three Lewis Multirooms
which access all the Dvd's and HD DVD's I have on the server.
The server is placed in the basement as its quite loud but the Multirooms are super quiet.
They play back HD DVD films perfect so there are solutions out there if you look for them.