HD DVD camp unable to confirm Wal-Mart HD DVD player
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Apr 24th 2007 11:02AM
posted Apr 24th 2007 11:02AM
The biggest news to hit the format war in some time hit last week with word that Wal-Mart and China's Great Wall corporation struck a deal to bring inexpensive HD DVD players to market. While this is would be great news for all HD fans, we were left a bit worrisome by the translation dispute between the two camps. Just to make sure we had our facts straight, we updated the post and contacted HD DVD to get the full story. While the HD DVD camp reminded us that they have inexpensive players from China on the way, they weren't able to confirm any "specific reports relating to Wal-Mart". It seems to us that if this were indeed true, that the HD DVD camp would be the first to trumpet its significance to their success in the format war. As much as we all want inexpensive next generation HD disc players, we will just have to wait for something more official before we hold off on our purchases waiting for Wal-Mart.
Blu-Ray FTW!!!!!!!!!!!
ummm we have to wait before we hold off purchasing stuff??!!?
You need to wait before you start waiting :)
Why do people think that the HD DVD promotions group has any ability to comment on this? Wal-Mart placed the order and is selling the thing. Fuh Yuan is making them. Those two parties have the right to comment on the transaction (the last time I checked, these types of transactions were usually private). The only way the HD DVD promotions group could comment is if given permission by Wal-Mart or Fuh Yuan. Obviously this is ammo in Wal-Marts gun against other retailers, and they probably don't want to spill all the beans and allow them to develop a response. It's business 101 folks. At least we now see that Engadget has some bias in its reporting...
I think if this is true it will finaly bring closure to this stupid format war. I'm not saying that Bluray is bad tech, but the fact that $ony made it different enough so that they'll be only ones getting royalties from any bluray product of any brand is just wrong. I alway liked the fact that HD DVD offers two types of players with 720p/1080i and 1080p and the fact the they are never overpriced compare to bluray players.
Seeing that the HD DVD player in Wal-Mart is tagged $484 (they probably have decreased the price), in mine, and the Phillips Blu-Ray player is tagged at $898, I have no problem in stating that it will be HD DVD.
I think Ben's logic is very simplistic. The HD DVD promotions people may not been able to comment on what Walmart is doing. Where is the story of you trying to confirm this with the Blu-Ray group? Wouldn't they be trumpeting this news as well?
The Samsung blu-ray player at Amazon is currently selling for $479.99... I hate to say it but player price is really the only advantage HD-DVD can achieve at this point. It's not enough.
At least we now see that Engadget has some bias in its reporting...
Dude, this Ben character that writes news is so obviously biased it's not even funny. I don't understand how can Engadget even tolarate ridiculous news that this guy posts. Seriously.
I have been visiting Engadget for a little bit now and Ben you are SO obviously biased, your every conclusion and wording has Blu-Ray this and let's hold off on this from HD-DVD to see if it will pan out. Oh people from a forum organized to take over the lead on amazon, I mean come on. Do you see how wrong that is. If you are biased towards Blu-Ray it's not your place to comment on news, or at least Enagadget should fill the site with Blu-Ray Assoc. ads and officailly come out and say, we "heart" Blu-Ray. It's simple as that.
How is "HD DVD camp unable to confirm Wal-Mart HD DVD player " news at all? In the world of market transactions, tough competition you expect to have all the details about the product 6-8 months before it's released?
This is ridiculous, do you have any knowledge of how business works? Especially with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray war. If Walmart officially announced this they would kill off their existing HD-DVD and Blu-Ray sales or what's left of it because people would hold-off for the cheaper one. This is the same reason why Apple doesn't talk about their products until the day they announce them.
Please either try to be more objective and try to reason as well as support information before you blurp them out here. That's the least we should expect from an Engadget author.
OPED!! Jeezus Christ.
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPSS.......
Oh, and on Wal-Mart.com the Toshiba HD-D1 is selling for $349.00.
Wally, we realy need an HD recorder here. Go Wallyworld!!!!
costco.com has the toshiba at $349 as well. Wonder who they will sign an order with to get $200 HD DVD players.
Considering amazon has $300 HD-DVD players... nly less than $200 could be attractive and even then it's not for me. I'll wait for the price drop on the PS3, thanks...
It seems to me they are putting a lot of effort into this machine and $300 sounds awfully high for either a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player in 2008. I bet they are making it to play both formats! Some manufacturer (Ricoh?) announced a blue laser pickup that can read both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray and some other company said they were making a chipset that would handle both formats. I can't remember the companies specifically.
Neither format will win this war, they both will survive because hybrid players will be the norm once hardware that can handle both is available in quantities. The formats are more similar than different. Consumers eventually won't pay attention. Sort of like DVD-R vs DVD+R.
The price is to be from $199 to $299 and I'm pretty sure it will be close to $199. You can expect the first shipments to be $299 to test out water, but when the complete order ships out Q4 2007 they will most likely have them for $199. There's absolutely no way that you can make a Blu-Ray or a BD/HD-DVD hybrid for that money. It's just an HD-DVD player.
I disagree. I think they can make affordable hybrid players in 2008. They will have one chipset and one blue-laser pickup will do both HD and BD media.
Here's a link to the IC (chipset) that can decode all media formats and below that the story that Ricoh has made a combined reader. Right now the LG and Samsung Duo players require multiple laser diodes and a bunch of chips to be able to support both formats. Opens the door for PC/laptop hybrid drives too.
http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/482335/526
Ricoh Pioneers Combined Blu-Ray / HD-DVD Reader
July 14th, 2006
Ricoh has announced that it has developed a component that can read both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs.The new device uses a diffraction lens to adjust the position of the laser used to read the disc so that it is correct for each format. Ricoh hopes to increase the maximum power of the laser shortly so that it can be used to write as well as read.
Ricoh is the first in the world to announce this hybrid technology, said Ricoh spokesperson, Satoshi Aoki. We believe its groundbreaking.
However, some are pouring cold water on Ricohs invention. The market potential for the product is not very large, said Wolfgang Schlichting, an analyst with market researcher IDC. The verdict is still out both formats still have the chance of becoming dominant, and companies need to focus on products that are price-driven and sell today.
Delivery is expected in 2007.
Ben's story here is TOTAL denial of the facts, and the evidence.
This was a press release by Fuh Yuan, which he fails to mention in his story. He acts as tho it is some unsubstantiated rumour, and also neglects to mention that every native Chinese speaker who has read the press release has agreed that it could ONLY be talking about HD DVD.
That he has the chutzpah to tell all of us that Walmart and the HD DVD group must confirm this press release before he will accept it is rather funny. Walmart are not going to broadcast their business strategy - YET Ben also forgets to mention that when Walmart were directly questioned on this HD DVD order two days ago, they (Walmart) did NOT deny the story - only saying that they are heading more into Gi Tech. That is as good as a confirmation, since they would have denied this story outright if it were not true, given such a direct question.
Engadget is one of the few entities who do not accept that this story is true - Bluray.com being the other one... :)
To every one claiming it is one format or the other, have you looked at Fuh Yuan's web site. They refer to pretty much any thing that hooks up to a HDTV as HD DVD. All they have said is they are manufacturing a "Blue Light HD DVD" Hate to say it, but Ben is right. The Format is HD-DVD with a dash. If you do not include a dash then you are just refering to a High Def DVD format based off Blue laser technology. Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD are HD DVD formats. Nothing is written in stone. Also For those that think blu-ray can not hit this price, Sony stated that Blu-ray could hit $299 by Christmas 2007. Seeing as this is slated for after christmas (from what I've gatherd it's very possible for it to be Blu-ray. http://www.blurayfreak.com/2007/03/bluray_player_f.html
To every one claiming it is one format or the other, have you looked at Fuh Yuan's web site. They refer to pretty much any thing that hooks up to a HDTV as HD DVD. All they have said is they are manufacturing a "Blue Light HD DVD" Hate to say it, but Ben is right. The Format is HD-DVD with a dash. If you do not include a dash then you are just refering to a High Def DVD format based off Blue laser technology. Both Blu-ray and HD-DVD are HD DVD formats. Nothing is written in stone. Also For those that think blu-ray can not hit this price, Sony stated that Blu-ray could hit $299 by Christmas 2007. Seeing as this is slated for after christmas (from what I've gatherd it's very possible for it to be Blu-ray. http://www.blurayfreak.com/2007/03/bluray_player_f.html
I think hddvd will "win" because players will drop in price fast enough to encourage the non-sony BD exclusive studios to go neutral. Sony's screwing over other CEs with the ps3 and pricing, so non-ps3 BD players will be scarcer and pricier. Dual playing units will outsell the others because Sony studios will refuse to back HDDVD.
Actually, the format is "HD DVD" (no dash). Not sure why they skipped the dash, but they did.
Whoops, no, seems I'm off they do use it either way HD DVD or HD-DVD. Sorry about that; however, it still doesn't change the fact that Fuh Yuan pretty much use HD DVD to refer to any DVD that hooks up to a HDTV.
Also check this out.....http://cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=20262. Pretty much sum's it all up. Does Hddvd even have 1m Diodes produced yet? Never mind 1m a month from here on in, till nov. At which time there will be 5m BRD only diodes made every month, and make sure you read it because it does clarify that they are BRD only diodes!! Sony is selling their cheaper model in wal-mart starting this summer. So even if there is a slim chance that these are in-fact HDdvd plays from Fuy Hun. Which is more likley to sell, a FUh yun HDdvd at $200; or a Sony BRD player for $299, which has all the good new releases. J6P isn't as broke as you want to believe guy's, and he loves NAMES. Remember Tons of HD programing started in sports. Who loves sports again???
Ben is a Blu-ray supporter so it "is" odd that he covers so many HD DVD topics. This post is pretty "content free". The only two parties you need to seek confirmation from are the Chinese company and Wal-mart. One of the posters has stated this and I just wanted to +1 his comments. Plus it's a bit odd that there are so many "we" or "us" in the article. I see no other name than Ben's in the byline. If the information is true it will come out sooner rather than later. I'm not worried frankly it's looking like we will have to wait well into 2008 before we start getting some Blockbusters regularly anyways.
hmurchison,
I am surprised you haven't picked up this already, but ALL of Engadget's posts are filled with "us" and "we", it is part of who we are.
The news is in the headline, granted there isn't much of it.
Ah, ol' Ben's at it again, is he? I wonder if he actually believes that he is being subtle?
Maybe this is the inevitable reaction to the fact that the Bluray fanboy counter to the recent HD-DVD sales advantage (both topics having been faithfully covered by Ben with his now predictable Bluray leanings) completely FAILED and the HD-DVD version of Planet Earth remains well above the Bluray version in sales even though it's clearly out of stock.
I'm in h0mi's camp; although with a name like his, I'm not proud to admit that. The rapid price drops of stand-alone players will put HD DVD on top if BD players cannot keep pace, and thus far they haven't. Mark the words of H0mi and HDMike!
Yes, price alone can win the format war. Think about average Joe (non enthusiast) at Best Buy. He's looking for a HD player for his HDTV. He sees BR and HD DVD players and the HD DVD unit is $100-$200 less. He can't perceive any audible or visual quality difference. The movie selection is comparable. HD DVD also has the advantage of having a name that people understand. Joe may not know what BD is or means. Which player does Joe choose? I bet 8+ out of 10 Joe's choose HD DVD for name recognition and price reasons.
Thanks for the great info, guess I will wait for Wal-Mart.
If this was a format neutral article, wouldn't it say:
Walmart and FUn Yah will not name format; HDDVD nor BRD acknowledge order
I mean, to be neutral, wouldn't you ask BOTH parties? I'll be the BRD camp wouldn't confirm that the order is BRD format either, BECAUSE NEITHER HDDVD NOR BRD KNOW.
Well, personally, it sounds like Walmart have gone with Blu-Ray, given this news, and given the authors of the original press release admit to a "huge mistake" with their translation..
Oh dear, time to watch all the doom predictions for Blu-Ray suddenly change their tune, when it applies to their beloved Toshiba HD-DUD..
Sorry bud. The person claiming to have made a "huge mistake" is one confused blogger at Akihabaranews.com reporting on the original articles. (Look again and you'll see he made another update, he doesn't know WTF!)
[b]2005[/b] [b]New York Times[/b] [url=http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/20/business/dvd.php]In switch, Toshiba turns to China [/url]
By making its technology available to Chinese manufacturers, Toshiba hopes to get cheaper HD-DVD players in the stores months ahead of Sony, Panasonic, Samsung and other Blu-ray companies. This would help Toshiba outmaneuver Sony. [b]Toshiba, analysts say, also knows that DVDs became a mass market item in the United States after low-priced models arrived from China and filled big-box retailers like [color=red]Wal-Mart[/color].[/b] :o
[b]PRESS RELEASE[/b]
[url=http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/pressrelease_hddvdpromogroup2007summer.html]Title line-up [b]and strategic hardware price reductions reinforce strength of [color=red]HD DVD [/color]format[/b].[/url]
"The spring is ramping up well for [b][color=red]HD DVD[/color][/b], with an incredible list of movies [b]and the best priced hardware on the market[/b]," said [b]Ken Graffeo, executive vice president, HD Strategic Marketing[/b], Universal Studios Home Entertainment. "Our consumer base continues to buy movies at rates that outpace DVD in its early years, which shows the willingness of consumers to make the transition to high definition."
"HD DVD continues to perform exceptionally well for [b]Warner Home Video[/b], and we see this continuing as more titles from the HD DVD studios roll out [b]and more hardware hits the market[/b]," said [b]Steve Nickerson, senior vice president of market management for Warner Home Video[/b]. "Fans of high definition have a lot more to choose from with the release of long-awaited blockbusters like The Complete Matrix Trilogy on HD DVD."
"[b]As hardware prices continue to fall, this is a great time to experience [color=red]HD DVD[/color][/b]," said [b]Chris Saito, vice president, marketing, Paramount Home Entertainment[/b]. "Our HD DVD line-up for Spring and Summer 2007 has something for every audience, with hits ranging from Dreamgirls to Flags of Our Fathers."
[url=http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=950062][b]Microsoft Technology[/b] Brings [b][color=red]HD DVD[/color][/b][u] to the Mainstream[/u][/url]
[u]Several of the more innovative consumer electronics companies plan to use this new hardware and software platform to speed the production of [color=red][b]HD DVD[/b][/color] players, including Lite-On IT Corp., one of the most experienced systems integrators backing high-volume consumer electronics manufacturers, and Zhenjiang Jiangkui Group Co. Ltd./ED Digital, one of the largest, high-volume manufacturers of DVD players in China[/u].
[url=http://www.microsoft.com/Presspass/press/2007/jan07/01-08BroadcomMSPR.mspx][b]Microsoft and Broadcom [/b][u]Deliver Combined Hardware and Software Platform for More Cost-Efficient[/u] [b][color=red]HD DVD [/color][/b]Players[/url]
[color=red][b]LAS VEGAS Jan. 8, 2007[/b][/color]
One of the critical steps in bringing [color=red][b]HD DVD[/b] [/color][b]to the mass market is driving down the price of the units while maintaining flawless quality[/b], said [b]Peter Besen[/b], [b]vice president, Consumer Electronics, Broadband Communications Group[/b], from Broadcom. [b]Our BCM7440 chipset brings multiple processors, dual decoders and dedicated graphics engines to the table. Combined with the power of Windows CE 6.0, were able to offer a complete reference design that dramatically reduces development time for our manufacturing partners[/b].
Weve seen strong sales of [color=red]HD DVD[/color] players and movies so far, but using this new platform, companies can produce[color=red] HD DVD [/color][b]players in record time, resulting in more choices for consumers[/b], said [b]Amir Majidimehr[/b], [b]corporate vice president of the Consumer Media Technology Group at Microsoft[/b]. [b]The power and high integration of BCM7440, combined with the Windows CE 6.0 HD DVD platform, results in even lower cost players for consumers than the high value products already in the market[/b].
[b][color=red]The first players incorporating the new platform are expected from manufacturers in the second quarter of this year[/color][/b]. :o
Sony would never license out their tech to a chinese company, and Toshiba did this license deal with Fuh Yuan back in 2005. This was reported back in 2005 by some wall street firm talking about the risks Toshiba was taking by licensing HD-DVD tech to a chinese manufacturer. Interesting read - just Google it.
This link posted by Diabolo is a similar article to the one I read about the same time http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/20/business/dvd.php
Well more and more evidence is showing up that points towards these being Blu-ray, and not HD-DVD. The first suspicious thing was that Fuh Yuan, who's major client is Sony (they make Sony's Floppies). The second sign was they were working with TDK, a known player in the Blu-ray area. The Third suspicious thing was the mentioning of the Phillips Blu-ray player for a price comparison for how much this unit will sell for. Fourth on the list was the interesting data that the cost of Sony's blue laser diodes for Blu-ray have dropped from $150 to $8 to to the shere number they have made making them the least expensive blue laser diodes on the market. Fith on the list is the interesting fact that several Walmarts have reduced their stock of HD-DVD's to about 1/3rd of that of their Blu-ray section. Sixth interesting fact is several Sam's Clubs (Also related to Walmart) are discontinuing to carry the xbox 360 HD-DVD drive and so have discounted it to $72 http://kotaku.com/gaming/deal/get-a-360-hd+dvd-drive-for-72-255347.php But the absolutely most interesting fact is that this next chinese web site mentions, "...Blue DVD can read quite as much as 50G over 12 movie discs..." and that, "Blue DVD traverse the most crucial invention by the Chinese, not only catching, anti-fouling, the cost of production is also low, even the traditional and DVD compatible, even listed first international sensation, the machine the famous American manufacturers ordering of two million units..." Seeing as we know that Walmart ordered 2 million players, and that the only player that currently is specced to handle 50Gb discs is Blu-ray, This all adds more credablility that the machines are in fact Blu-ray, not HD-DVD. http://google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Ftw.news.yahoo.com%2Farticle%2Furl%2Fd%2Fa%2F070420%2F8%2Fd6ex.html&langpair=zh%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8
I wish to make it clear that the Chinese are constantly refering to both Blu-ray and HD-DVD as "HD DVD." The term Blu-ray holds little meaning to some one who doesn't understand the format, but HD (High Definition) DVD (Digital Versital Disc) is very easy for people to understand. Here is some background info people may not know. Toshiba, being the head of the DVD comitty, practicaly force the group to name it's format HD-DVD by changing it so that abstaned votes (people who didn't vote for either format, or wern't present to vote) didn't count. Thus even though their format didn't recieve a positive majority vote, they still won because Sony's format had not realy had the oppertunity to be evaluated properly at the time so even more people abstained from voting for it. Translation: No vote for either format = you don't get a vote. So Toshiba scammed their format in to recieving the title HD-DVD. This is one of the reasons so many of the manufactures bailed on HD-DVD. A bogusly obtained title through voting manipulation.
press release Fuh Yuan:
"We are sorry to correct the statement that we have two million HD-DVD players order from Wal-Mart and manufactured by China Great Wall Group. The actuality is that we had not received yet. We are asked to provide the schedule to Wal-Mart and cost to determine the quantity even more than two million, if the cost is good enough and timing is correct. So the capacity is under consideration. Any qualified manufactured base group will be welcome."
N some inside info from the AVSforum ;-)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10399159&&#post10399159
It's HD DVD players, not Blu-ray ;-)
Wow good job! You just proved that there will never be an hddvd player produced from anyone except toshiba, you know becasue they were going to sell 1 million hddvd players in their first physical year, but they only sold 250k. BD is in mass production right now. There will be a flood of cheap players from the BDA Q4. Next year, there will be really cheap Chinese BD players. I'm really looking forward to that $299 sony BD player at wal-mar this x-mas!! Just so there is no confusion, that press release proves that there will be no cheap hddvd players this year for sure.
The link http://www.fuhyuan.com/ev/action/main.asp?news_id1=34123&Action=Show
Dream on dreamer ;-)
Just to clarify, it is just a toning down tehnique. Here's what's going on since quite a few people on AVS-Forums are involved in the whole thing as well:
The Fuh Yuan base deal is done. They will be producing HD DVD players for Wal-Mart.
No one says the deal hasn't been done yet or that the initial order will not be completed. The posting on their web site is a bit confusing, and may be an attempt to stop people form contacting them directly.
I don't know about the significance of the recent post on their site, but it does not affect the base deal. That is in progress and sub-contracts have been made and finalized.
They are looking for the best price and availability they can give to Wal-mart for deliveries above the base amount.
Initial confirmed order quantities are over 1 Million units, its probable the 2 Million units initially mentioned in the first Fuh Yuan press release is the base number. Fuh Yuan has been asked to give quotes and estimates on how quickly numbers above the base quantity can be delivered next year.
Early estimates of full scale mass production in August were evaluated and found to be somewhat aggressive and possibly over optimistic. Physical assembly or staffing or the physical facility is not the issue, a short delay is SoC software related. Plant will be producing at that time but full scale production may slip until October, with initial batch quantities of 5-10 thousand units required to be available in the first week or so of October.
Recent meetings between Fuh Yuan and Broadcom engineers revised the schedule and engineering considerations have lead to the late August to early October production schedule slippage.
Fuh Yuan is making the chassis and loader and doing assembly.
Decoder chip and other silicon being supplied by Broadcom, probably the reference design announced at CES, or a derivative.
The optical unit is based on a Toshiba HD DVD unit design and is being manufactured by the TDK hardware unit under contract.
Wal-Mart has certified the China Great Wall manufacturing facility for Wal-Mart (probably for compliance with stuff like personnel management and environmental considerations) .
Probable limited production runs available in mid-late Oct in some selected Wal-Mart stores. Wal-Mart under control obviously of when they first start to sell the players, but some limited production available to them in October.
I have conflicting information on when the initial 2 million orders is scheduled to be delivered by. One source says all by end of 2007. Several others say, some in October, a lot (around 1 million or so ) by EOY 2007, with the rest in early 2008. The quantity produced by the end of the year may be dependent on the production throughput of the plant which is not known yet.
Its possible that under 50% of the initial 2 M units may be available by the end of the year. Big volume is expected in 2008 and as of now more than 50% of the 2M order is expected after the EOY.
Last Friday Fuh Yuan had a major meeting with Broadcom, perhaps feedback from Broadcom was the reason for the August to October full scale production delay. Broadcom may have to spin the chip or may have a delay in the completion of the embedded software or perhaps Broadcom wanted a bit of room in the overall software schedule.
Several other SoC player deals for HD DVD are now in the works. This isn't the only deal being worked on, though it is one of the largest and obviously significant because it involves Wal-Mart.
All major SoC guys like Broadcom and Sigma are working now on HD DVD solutions. Sigma's Blu-ray SoC solution is available but any units using it will not be in production before this Fuh Yuan device hits the shelves.
My sources for this include several prominent hardware guys in the industry that have been known as being creditable before and are both involved and non-involved in some aspect of the deal. The mods here know some names, but I cannot reveal the sources.
I was just quoting one guy who is very informed from AVS Forums..When he says
" The mods here know some names, but I cannot reveal the sources"
not mods at Engadget but mods at AVS-Forum. Just to make that clear. Engadget is pretty much all Blu-Ray oriented and just loves posting news like this to introduce even more FUD.