HD DVD to Blu-ray: "Oh yeah, well we've sold a lot of discs too!"
By Erik Hanson 
posted Apr 26th 2007 12:40PM
posted Apr 26th 2007 12:40PM
It just wouldn't be a proper format war without a rebuttal from the opposing side about this week's announcement that Blu-ray has sold over a million discs. The HD DVD PR machine scrambled to life to point out that they, too, are so close to that magic million, with their own sales numbers showing 998,000 units sold, up from the 937,500 reported by Home Media Research. The HD camp also points out that -- not including the PS3 or Xbox add-ons -- standalone next-gen DVD hardware is selling 4-to-1 in favor of HD DVD this month, and content sales numbers are very close week-to-week between the two formats. Meanwhile, the average consumer sits on the sidelines waiting for a winner to emerge from the fight -- that is, if they can even spell it.
I'm curious, do the HD-DVD numbers include the discs that are given away free with every player purchased? I don't recall a week within the past 6 months that a Toshiba HD-DVD player didn't include 3-5 movies with it.
from what i read the free ones are not included since they are not actual sales and not included in the tally if that makes sense.
I hate this so much. I want to pick a side but I can't do it. It just isn't in my blood. We were the only house with a betamax player growing up. My family just has a bad track record when picking a side when it comes to movie players.
This isn't rocket science.. The best, most future-proof Blu-Ray player out there is the PS3 and it's the cheapest, so of course it'll sell the most. That is why HD-DVD standalone players are selling more. Blu-Ray buyers aren't dumb, a lot of them buy the PS3.
Yep, I have 2 friends at work that are both planning on Buying the PS3 as their Blu-ray player, and neither are gamers.
HD DVD fans will be happy to know that the one planning on getting both formats has already bought many HD DVDs and so is supporting your Cause :)
The PS3 is a good player because it has the ability to be upgraded and support BDlive when that finally comes online.
So not counting the PS3s is definately just giving the HD DVD false hope IMO as there are likely a large percentage of PS3 users buying it as a standalone player for Blu-ray.
As to Disc sales, keep in mind, HD DVD players by Toshiba have 5 Free HD DVDs attached to the sale, so when you consider that, Blu-ray is really outselling in the Disc area.
"As to Disc sales, keep in mind, HD DVD players by Toshiba have 5 Free HD DVDs attached to the sale, so when you consider that, Blu-ray is really outselling in the Disc area."
Nobody is counting the free discs as sales, since they aren't "sold."
"So not counting the PS3s is definately just giving the HD DVD false hope IMO as there are likely a large percentage of PS3 users buying it as a standalone player for Blu-ray."
Over 3 million PS3s have sold, and the BDA recently announced they sold 1 million movies. Presumably people who bought movies for their PS3s have bought more than one so that's less than a third of PS3s being used as Blu-ray players.
dude you can't be more wrong. Here are the current sales
japan as of april 15 is 837,849
(less then 12K were sold that week)
http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7710
in the US as of the march NPD numbers 1,194,000
http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7709
(it was outsold by the GBA haha sorry that is funny)
and the PS3 just came out last month and they don't have number but there is no way that have sold over a million yet i'll be nice and say 500K sold in europe and australia
which bring the total to about 2.5M at the very most not over 3M
but if it was over 3M that would make it sound worse that blu-ray sold it's 1M disc so late and give it a ratio of liek 1 movie for every 3 ps3's not to mention even worse ratio when you include the players and PC drives.
"Over 3 million PS3s have sold, and the BDA recently announced they sold 1 million movies. Presumably people who bought movies for their PS3s have bought more than one so that's less than a third of PS3s being used as Blu-ray players."
And everyone who buys a standalone player buys several movies for it. Comparing PS3s vs standalones is comparing potential vs actual. More so since at least some PS3s are sold to people without HD TVs, who have no use for HD movies, and NO standalone HD DVD (or BD) players are sold to folks without HD.
just bought a ps3 last week. i'm not a gamer so i didn't buy any games, but i did buy 7 bd movies. it is the best player you can buy, imo. i also use it to play background music and view slide shows, but for games, i probably will just be downloading the demos until something really catches my eye, which is rare for an old fogey like me. showed it to another "older couple" and they were blown away by the other capabilities of it. i'm sure this is just because of the whole bandwith issues, but they immediately saw a difference between the bd playback and their own dish network hd signal. it was brighter and smoother w/o any breakup.
I wonder if BR counted the free movies they had for their stand alone players. Don't say they didn't since I saw it in bold print in a best buy weekly ad about a month ago. "Buy a BR stand alone player get 4 movies free with rebate."
I love to hear HD-DVD is so close - what that really means is HD-DVD has a much higher attach rate. Percentage wise if you total all BD players even ps3 vs. All HD-DVD Player sales - HD has a higher commitment rate > which equals a higher product loyalty!
Oh and by the way the HD Sales figure is now WRONG! I just bought 2 HD-DVD's so the total is now 998,002....
HD DVD has a much higher attach rate? Duh, what else are you going to do with it? ;-)
Numbers, Numbers, Numbers... On one side, Sony only needs about 15% of PS3 owners out the 1.4m US market to exceed all HD DVD players. But the new Walmart deal is gonna give BR a serious kick in the pants and probably nullify the PS3 effect. Unless BR comes up with cheaper players by xmas, the momentum's gonna swing the HD DVD way next year.
Anybody seen hard numbers on BR standalone sales?
Wouldn't the free ones have to be included, since they're free AFTER rebate? A retailer's receipts will show purchase of the product, and it's up to the consumer to make the product free via mailing in rebate forms. That would be my impression at least, as that's the way all free-after-rebate products work.
Unless the free discs are received by just handing a coupon to the sales clerk and walking out without paying anything, which I doubt is the case...
Well, Toshiba claimed that the BR numbers are skewed because of the vouchers for the PS3, but failed to mention anything about their own 5 free discs being counted.
The historical Amazon charts show that BR had gotten close to HD DVD before the PS3, but the momentum that put them over didn't come until about Dec. 28.
But HD DVD hasn't really broken new ground since it began either. They've stayed consistently within a narrow range throughout, and even the 1 day buying event didn't break the barrier, nor is 5 titles per unit surpassing BR's momentum.
It would seem that BR's edge is mainly via the PS3, vouchers or not. Unless BR is able to push out cheaper standalone's to compete with HD DVD on that front, they aren't going to be able to maintain it if Walmart is able to get units out by the end of the year, release of the new x-box, and cheaper Toshiba prices.
I wonder what's going to happen to the PS3 after the prices come down on other standalone BR-players, if i understand correct, that's what most non-gamer's done, bought an inexpensive (the most inexpensive?)BR-player.
The reality is, one of the Blu-ray players on the market is also bought as a Game console, and most of those customers are really spending their money on 40+ dollar games, not 20+ dollar movies.
So knowing the exact breakdown of Blu-ray players; Those PS3s bought strictly as a BD player and those bought strictly as a Game console, is unknown, and trying to lock down a hard and fast number of the Blu-ray players that are out there with customers that will be buying a semi-steady amount of movies is kind of a soft number.
The numbers that aren't so soft though, and the ONLY numbers that matter to the Studios that produce and make profit from Disc movie sales, are that Blu-ray discs are selling through at a Much higher rate than HD DVD discs, even though there was a 2 month lag in the release of players for Blu-ray.
If I produce Part type A, and Part type A sells better, what is my incentive to switch to making part type B when the current profit on Sales is shown to be less, and I also know that if part type B loses in the format war, I'll undoubtedly sell lots and lots more of Part type A?
The answer is simple; NONE.
No Blu-ray only Studio will be switching over to the format that has less sell through and inhibits their current sell through and price points by lingering in the market; it's just a bad business move, and these companies are run by business people.
In summary, only if HD DVD disc sales increase beyond Blu-ray disc sales will there be a business incentive for companies to consider going neutral or locking out Blu-ray, and with there being more studios currently locking out HD DVD, as well as those studios being the biggest Studios with releases this year like the Spiderman trilogy and the Pirates trilogy, the likelihood of HD DVD discs sales overtaking Blu-ray disc sales is grim at best.
Consumers are looking at what movies the 2 formats play and it is a factor in their choice.
That is the reality as it is now, and only someone basing their views on emotion and not market facts would come to the conclusion that HD DVD will win the format war.
can i ask...do HD DVD's play/work in a Blu-Ray player? I know Blu-Ray dont work in HD DVD players...