HD DVD rebate promotion a success?
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted May 30th 2007 9:32AM
posted May 30th 2007 9:32AM
posted May 30th 2007 9:32AM
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Is the question mark in the title a typo? If its not a typo, should there have been one after your Feb 12th headline: "Sony sez: The format war is over, really" (?)
The ? mark is not a typo.
Sony really did say the format war was over, so there is no question mark. Toshiba didn't call the promotion a success or I wouldn't of put a question mark.
I suppose I could have made the headline: Toshiba says player sales are up. But instead I posed the question; is the promtion a success?
The HD-A2 was also number one of ALL Electronics on Amazon.com.
I like HD DVD better than blu-ray, I'm not exactly sure why, they both look the same and sound for me isn't a big issue, special features, I hardly ever look at them, and size (although some women would disagree) doesn't matter... at least to me. So in a sense I'm a fanboy without real reason. I know it's pretty close minded of me, but HD DVD is nice. I don't have any complaints and yeah of course I am worried it may lose, but I will keep buying HD DVD movies until the end. As for Blu-ray, when it's my time to buy I will do so. I'm hoping for later than sooner. The way I figure is my HD DVD player is the Xbox, and if HD DVD were to fail, I'll buy a blu-ray stand alone player. I'll keep my HD DVD movies and start buying Blu-ray's I don't own on HD DVD. Not that big of a deal
Amazon.com must've screwed something up on Monday. The price of the HD-A2 inexplicably dropped to $237.88 (with free shipping) in the morning, and lots of people must've ordered it, because they quickly ran out. When I was ordering mine, the estimated shipping date was in June, and it later changed to July. Later in the day, Amazon stopped selling HD-A2 at all, while it was still available from other sellers for an average of $300. On Tuesday, they put it back at $277.88, though it was out of stock, and today it's $299.99, still out of stock. I'm glad I got in at $237, though I have no clue as to when I'm actually going to receive this thing! :)
I think Toshiba did this promotion for two reasons. One to increase sales. Two they use this a trial balloon to show the studios and retailers what will happen when these cheap Chinese players hit the market later this year. If they can show that people stop caring about a format war when the price hits around 250.00. At that price range you could justify the price just for the dvd up conversion alone.
While this is great news for HD DVD, it doesn't mean anything until they can get reluctant content providers like Disney and Fox over to their side.
I bought the Pirates movies last week, and I'll wait until the BD versions of the Matrix are out to buy them- even though I have the HD-A1 player. I'm just not convinced that they can catch up to Blu-ray, even with lower cost players.
@ Ben (and anyone else)
"Wouldn't of" does not exist in English. You spell out "would not have," in this case because "wouldn't've" is incorrect (only ONE contraction is permitted for one or two words, e.g., "can't" for "cannot" or "haven't" for "have not").
Positive contractions like "must've" and "would've" only SOUND like "must of" and "would of," meaningless phrases that aren't permitted in English.
Geez, Paul, I'm just happy they're not confusing their there's any more.
Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule for the spelling lesson. Now can you please get back to your register and take my fast food order.
Is there anyone who thinks the price will go back up after the "promotion" ends? Toshiba has 2007 to flood the planet with HD DVD, while BD is stuck at the $500+ price level.
Expect Toshiba players under $200 by fall. Expect more (total) HD DVD players than PS3s in consumer hands by the end of the year. At least in the USA.
Europe is maybe another story, for reasons that aren't clear. Can someone explain that?
Expect Toshiba players under $200 by fall. Expect more (total) HD DVD players than PS3s in consumer hands by the end of the year. At least in the USA.
I would disagree with that statement/speculation. Prob. more in Q1 of 2008 than ps3s.
Hey Paul, you must've been a whiz in English class or else you wouldnt've felt the need to crap all over that post. I'da just thunk you'd do something more productive with your time like read a comic book and fix da mangled syntax so's us idiots would understand 'em gooder.
Soon, HD-DVD will be in buying range for me which is the sub $200 level. The Sony PS3 is a white elephant. Sony can't sell them and is bleeding cash. Unless blu-ray contracts out to the majority of Chinese players and can break the $199 barrier it will be like LaserDic: High End consume r with little mass market penetration like VHS had in the 80's.
Blu-ray is NOT the new Laserdisc. Blu-ray is the new SelectaVision.
The problem HDDVD faces right now is they need to get more players out there so that more players translates into more sales of software. Bluray discs are selling because there are so many ps3 owners out there (ignore the fact that the ps3 isnt doing so well in terms of console sales- it's outsold all other HD media players). The fact that 5 studios aren't supporting HDDVD but are supporting bluray hasn't translated into a huge edge in title availability- a bluray-only player can only play 65% of all available HD content (compared to 59% for hddvd).
HDDVD needs content but more than content, they need people to own players. Nobody is going to buy HDDVD (or bluray) without a player.
So I was at Best Buy yesterday night and I figure I'll check out the HD DVD prices. I could not find one HD DVD player at all. The sales person said they were completely sold out of all models. This is despite the fact that this particular Best Buy had two (2) displays showing BluRay movies (One Samusung, and the other Sony). This Best Buy also had no HD DVD displays up whatsoever.
After further inquiring as to why this is and why they don't properly display HD DVD they said basically it was because HD DVD players move themselves where as BluRay players don't move at all. Seriously he said he has never seen a BluRay player sold (thats not to say there hasnt been one sold from his location just he has never seen one).
Interesting stuff.
Sure hardware sales might have gone up. But not enough. HDDVD has a huge, huge, huge software gap to close now. All it will take is BD to have another amazon.com sale but at all the B&M stores and the gap will widen up to 5 or 6 to 1 easy. There are what 140K hddvd stand alones out there? Sony has a cheaper model coming out. Panasonic has a plyer with 5 movies in the box coming out, and Funai has announced they will be making a BD player for the U.S. market. Funai has 52% of the DVD player/recorder market in the U.S.. Keep on thinking that HDDVD will have this price advantage all you want but you are ignoring so many facts its funny. Sony has BD only diodes down to $8-$15, and they have upped BD 50 production so by the end of the year there will be 30 million a year produced, they have shipped 2.5 million disc already. BD hasnt even been out a year, hddvd has, I just don't understand why HDDVD fan insist on this price advantage lasting forever. People won't care about $100 if there is 3x the content on BD, you guy's might think they will, but an HDTV owner won't. Plus by that time older BD might be $12-$15. Then what? Your cheaper HDDVD player comes with more expensive movies that's what. HDDVD has no advantage except price, and in this day and age with electronics, that is a terrible advantage. If you are ignoring that electronics drop fast in price these days, then I guess I could see how you would think that HDDVD is going to win. However, people that aren't blind see what's going on here.
Wait you are calling people who still believe in HD DVD blind? Somebody with the name BD, who is an obvious fanboy of BluRay Discs is calling HD DVD supporters blind?
Where do you get off? You must have some lonely existence to even try that kind of crap.
First off most of your "argument" is based on speculation. You are speculating that BD players will drop soon. You are speculating that Funai will have players out by this holiday season. You are speculating that BD players prices will drop due to diode price drops. You are speculating that Amazon will have anotehr BD sale that Sony "encouraged". All of it is speculation. Anybody who speculates can rationalize anything. It only takes a few brain cells.
Everything you said in your little speech is speculation. You did not list one fact to help prove that BD will win other than the fact that software sales is slightly higher than that of HD DVD, where as HD DVD hardware sales are clobering BluRay sales.
I think its time for you to learn how to argue with facts, not speculation and theory.
ROTFFLMAO. "140K" players? Sold that many last week. When the 2nd quarter stats come in, HD DVD will be past the 500K point. Meanwhile, BD has sold maybe 50K in all time, with the vast majority of its sales going to PS3 owners. Of which there are many, of course, but they tend to spend money on $60 games, and only the occasional violent movie. And I wonder how many PS3 owners went neutral with the A2 just to get
Matrix.
The problem with BD players is that the main cost is in the things that HD DVD gets for free. BD has custom processing and custom OS; HD DVD has Linux on nearly-free x86 boards (no, not WinCE, Linux). Right there you have $200 of difference that BD can't beat. There are other thinbgs, too. Lasers, smasers, they all use the same thing and if was lasers driving the price BD would be much cheaper.
At this rate stand-alone HD DVD players will outnumber ALL BD players by the end of the year.
Wow Geoff and I'll bet you know fot a FACT that I have a sad lonley exsistance. Is that what you think will win this war? Insulting me personally. My initals happend to be BD, BTW. I wasn't calling HDDVD supports blind, I was calling anyone who thinks that a price advantage in this ever changing electronics business blind. I don't care If YOU, Geoff personally think that I don't have any facts. FACT- Sony has got BD diodes down to $8-$15 a peice. FACT- Funai has stated in a report to investors that they will be making a BD player for the U.S. market this year. Fact- Sony has shipped 2.5 milion BD 50 disc already and plan to have production for 30 million a year by the end of this year. FACT- Electronics drop in price faster now then ever, and an HDDVD player was $799+ this time last year. So yes some of what I said was "specualtion", however, I think its more of an educated guess, considering when you you look at the facts things look a lot more clear. Next time pull your head out of your ass before you come back with such a sharp tounge.
I just want the whole format war to end with either one winner or each living together in perfect harmony - or a reasonably priced combo player that will play all formats. I refuse to buy on or the other, and even though I want the "Heroes" set in HD, I won't buy it until the war is over, and I won't buy it on standard DVD because they're not going to get me to double dip. Universal needs to see the light and support both formats since they're the only BD holdout.
@ Kevin: Unfortunately, THAT little issue is just the tip of the iceberg...
@ Joe T: I don't see what I'm doing as crapping over someone's post. I'm merely pointing out why this particular error is grammatically incorrect; it's not my intention to embarrass Ben D. or anyone else who posts here.
One thing I'm having a hard time understanding is this "gap" business between total sales of the two formats. Wasn't it just revealed a few weeks ago that HD DVD sales trailed Blu-Ray sales by something like 2,000 copies (despite outrageous claims to the contrary)?
What's most intriguing right now is what Geoff just posted about the hardware, which is, when I last checked, important for actually playing HD DVDs. Forget the mudslinging for a moment; it must kill the BDA to know their competitors are moving hardware without criminally one-sided, bombastic store dispays (hello, Worst Buy) or any kind of built-in console advantage.
Also, the HD DVD camp should be commended for doing it with effective but quaint commercials that don't "attack" consumers with gaudy light shows like you see on Monday Night Football or something. The one with the couple dangling from a helicopter is a perfect example, as is the advertising from Universal, Paramount, and Warner found on HD DVDs. i think the latest one, with Michael Imperioli from "The Sopranos" talking about why he likes the format, speaks to consumers who can think for themselves and come to their own purchasing decisions without relying on propaganda.
If Blu-Ray does win this thing (and if it actually MATTERS in the years to come), it will go down as one of the ugliest battles for consumer dollars on record. Then again, we could have a "peaceful" coexistence like Macs and PCs if there is no clear winner. It certainly seems like that now.
I may have been wrong about your name, and it may very well be your initials. Perhaps me saying you must live a lonely life was a bit out of hand, I admit and for which I apologize.
However, I stand by that your argument was entirely based on speculation and to show you that anybody can do the same here is my very own rendition:
I don't understand why BluRay supporters think the movie studios support means anything. Its obvious the consumers will pick HD DVD because HD DVD players will continue to drop in price even farther than BluRay players will to the point of $99-$199, Wal Mart has begun talks to sell HD DVD players for cheap, and they are the largest retail chain in the world, Warner Bros. THD will make owning a BD player obsolete since HD DVD players are already so inexpensive, HD DVD is obviously the most recognized name for HD discs, HD DVD has the majority of the European and Porn industry support, and HD DVD has zero region coding which obviously means people can buy any movies from anywhere they want which means it will win.
Fact: Wal Mart is in discussions to bring cheaper HD DVD players to the market.
Fact: WB THD will be released and will make the more expensive players obsolete.
Fact: Google reports that HD DVD is searched far more times than BluRay and studies have shown people know what an HD DVD is as opposed to a BluRay.
Fact: More porn studios support HD DVD exclusively than BluRay.
Fact: European studios support HD DVD, to the point where a lot of BluRay "exclusives" are HD DVD across the pond.
Fact: HD DVD has zero region coding.
It is so very easy to ignore one side and propose an entire argument based on speculation. Naturally for each one of those facts there is a reaction from the BluRay side, however fanboys (such as yourself) won't recognize any of them.
Loves and Kisses,
Geoff
http://www.imdb.com/news/sb/2007-05-30/film/3
30 May 2007
Disney's Name To Appear Over Unrated Film
Only days after renaming its home video division to Disney Home Entertainment, the Walt Disney Co. announced Tuesday that it intends to release Badder Santa: The Unrated Version on November 20 in HD DVD and Blu-ray. In the past, Disney has gone to great lengths to make sure that the Disney name did not appear above any releases that did not reflect the wholesome, family-oriented viewpoint of the company's founder. However, the 2003 Billy Bob Thornton movie inarguably contains the raunchiest language ever delivered in a Christmas movie, and the "unrated" version includes deleted scenes that magnifies the scatological nature of the film. The film, released in high-definition formats at Christmas time may also confuse parents who see the names "Disney" and "Santa" on the cover of the packaging, along with the name of the film's co-star, the late John Ritter.
http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/disneys%20name%20to%20appear%20over%20unrated%20film_1032622
Unless there is a SERIOUS typo or misunderstanding with these articles, this is a big deal. This would be the first confirmation I've seen of Disney committing to an HD-DVD release. I hope that this article is true. Any BR exclusive studio breaking exclusivity with Sony would be a great sign for the HD-DVD camp. Personally, I think that if all of the studios released content on both HD-DVD and BR this format war would be over very quickly, with HD-DVD emerging as the clear winner. It just seems to me that they've got their act together better when it comes to video encoding quality (BR's failure with Fifth Element is a perfect example - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=847370), player functionality, and pricing.
I am new to this forum But I would like to say I have tested Toshiba A2 and Sony ps3 on Acer 32 HD tv and LG HD 42 plasma and Epson powerlite s3 and there is a noticable difference between HD and Blu ray. HD DVD is without a doubt the sharpest picture . It is absoutley amazing . Bluray image is soft compared to HD And ps3 does not support HD full dolby audio. I am not a Fanboy, but the Hd camp are miles ahead .
you're new to the forum, but i'm not sure if you know what is exactly different between the two formats. all things being equal, blu ray should give you a better picture quality. IF the same codec is used for both movies, and IF the quality of the player is the same, and IF the studio the encodes it does it exactly the same...there should be zero difference. If anything, what studios could do is increase the bit rate for blu ray discs since they have so much extra space to use on a disc...this would then give blu ray discs an edge in terms of picture quality.
There is no difference in resolution: it's all 1080i or 1080p. And the I or P probably doesn't matter. There is often a difference in the transfer to disk, and early Sony disks had issues there due to poor execution at Sony, but nowadays it's all pretty much the same. Is MPEG2, MPEG4 or VC1 better? None of the above as the degree of compression is variable. And don't start me hecling on the subject of audio. Anything past about 500Kbits is all the same.
http://www.dailytech.com/Over+100000+HD+DVD+Players+Sold+in+the+US/article6964c.htm ... This is an article from april 20/07. HDDVD's first birtday, they had sold 100,000 stand alones as of then, that means 8334 units were sold on average per month. It's May 29th. Even if HDDVD has been selling 6x as good for the last month, which it really only spured for one day, on amazon.com that is, but I'll give you the last month. There have been 8334*6= 50000 units sold this month. That's were the 140-150k number comes from. The sales spur is over, the Tosh is dropping in rank, HDDVD didn't even take over the entire sales rank for a day. I wish I could see the look on your guy's faces when BD players start droping in price, then when there is a wal-mart cheap BD player, then when BD software starts dropping in pirce, it would be priceless.
When I heard about this price drop, I got interested in buying an HD-A2 for only $299 plus 5 DVD's from Toshiba. And then I thought I should upgrade to the 1080p model. But things got expensive so I just decided to buy the drive for Xbox. The cashier at Bestbuy suprised me with a $10 giftcard and it only takes about 5 seconds after you push the play button for the movie to start. Compared to the 30 to 45 second wait times I hear people complain about, I'd say I got a steal. I can always wait a year or two to pick up a $99 dollar player and a new reciever that has HDMI and TrueHD but for now I will just be happy with pumpin my xbox full of HD DVD's from Netflix.
BD--
Toshiba is dropping in rank on Amazon because they SOLD OUT and are only taking backorders. They've also been sold out at times in many Circuit City and Best Buy stores in my area (according to the website local-pickup info).
This means they're selling all they can make at $250-299. And I have to think that Toshiba plans on making (and selling) quite a lot. You don't crater prices until the product is rolling off the lines in quantity.
Blue-ray has still to make good on the promised full-function (e.g. Java) players at $600. Real Soon Now they'll be at a lower, but still wildly uncompetitive, price point. And for what? Unused capacity, insignificantly better sound and nastier copy protection?
Unless Sony drops prices and increases production NOW, the war will be over in a few months.
Dont forget blu-ray players are not even finalized meaning no movie extra's from some where houses unless you buy a generation 3 player. which are not out yet because its not supposed to be final until october 31st. I know some of you say who care about movie extras but movie studios put them on current dvd's for a reason. Because the majority of the people actually do watch them!
Okay Kev, whatever you say. There is another reason to crater prices as well.. Clearing out stock... Tosh wanted 1 million stand alone players out there by there first B'day. They missed that by abuot 90%. Also, you are crazy if you think that HDDVD players will outnumber BD players by the end of this year. The PS3 plays BD; and stand-alones are about to get cheap. Again you don't have to get this for it to happen, as much as you want to think that you know what your talking about, you are about to be proven very wrong. In two or three months you will see how these playes have affected nothing. Especially when cheaper BD players hit the market in about 2 weeks.
Wow... I feel like we need all you people to show your credentials... "you are about to be proven very wrong.", is a very strong statement to just throw out there. Lowering price and attempting to outship and outsell a competitor seems reasonable to me. Clearing stock... hmm... I just don't see that! The price is more reasonable now, but it's not exactly cheap. And the PS3 thing seems a bit overstated as well. Last I read PS3 is getting heavily outsold by the Wii. It's just too expensive for anyone but a hardcore gamer. Seems to me what makes a standard, is what most people can afford and buy. I think Toshiba is just trying to appeal to the masses and get people to talk about there HD-DVD products. It's Working. (by the way, I have no inside information, experience, frankly I'm just "joe consumer" looking for information) The only thing to do is wait, or wade through all these comments with a bit of commonsense.
look i live in chicago i took advantage of the hd dvd promo toshiba has going on and i compared picture quality vs. the sony blu ray player i was about to get and let me just say this all my equipment is sony all sony for the first time in my years of having all sony equipment the toshiba hd player picture quality is better. my dvds even upscale 10 times better than my sony 400 disc upconverter now i honestly think from talkin to sales associates in circuit city ,best buy, tweeter , crutchfield,abt electronics, all have the same answer hd dvd picture quality and sound is better than blu ray.the only thing blu ray has is a fewer more movies than hd dvd. now i may be wrong but when the holiday season comes around i honestly think hd dvd will have more studio support for the simple fact for 1 and we cant be blind to this blu ray and sony are havin a lot of problems. i went to target last night and they cabinet full with ps3s the guy said their not in demand like the ps2 was when it was released around this time u could not find a ps2 but u can easily get a ps 3 all wiis sold out sony is having problems lets keep it real i love sony but they need to get they shit together. and i realy wanted blu ray to win but my gut feelin is tellin me either one format will win or both will co exist.and thats real talk
@ Frankie
If you're going to make fun of me, at least be a man and place my name in your post (as I've just done with yours). Let's have some insight about Toshiba's HD DVD rebate and/or player, smart guy. I've already stated that my intention is to inform, not ridicule.
Then again, please don't. You can't be that insightful if you think correcting grammar has anything to do with fast food...wouldn't want terms like "progressive scan" or "interlaced" to fry your brain.
The bottom line is this: every HD DVD hardware sale, whether Toshiba stand-alone or Xbox add-on, is by a consumer that is clearly interested in buying (or renting) HD DVD software. Every unit sold will have a high "attach rate."
This is also true for stand-alone BD hardware, to the same degree. Maybe even a greater degree considering the initial cost.
But it isn't at all true for PS3 sales, since there is a good chance that people buy PS3s to play games instead.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070115-8625.html
As of January, BD had sold at most 25K stand-alones and (at similar prices) HD DVD had sold 120K stand-alones. Add 120K Xbox add-ons to that and there was quite an installed base of HD DVD players. But there was also the PS3 launch, which had some people buying the $600 game machine for the "cheap" BD player. Advantage, slightly BD.
Can Sony hold the line with PS3 alone? Can they drop the price to compete in stand-alones? Because if they can't, and if Toshiba can fill the demand at $250, the war will end. BD may be a better format, but it's not (nearly) enough better to justify triple the price.
All the Poor Blu-Ray Suckers that already have a player that may, but more then likely not be able to get Upgraded to the final Standards in October. You see Blu-Ray was RUSHED to the Marketplace before it was even finalized unlike HD DVD. Even then, a Ethernet port from what I hear is still a option, so you could buy a player and not be able to download new Movie content because you have a player without a Ethernet port. How say. I know Toshiba said they sold the 100,000 earlier this year, but that didn't count the 140,000 Xbox HD DVD players also at the time, so that was 240,000+ back then, now it's of course more. ALL of those by the way being used to play HD DVD Movies. Stand Alone BLu-Ray players sold are FEW. No one want one, they are only FORCED to have one because of the PS3. If some Actual AAA Games would someday soon come out for the PS3, they would stop buying Movies and start playing games. The PS3 is really a Lame Blu-Ray Movie player when it doesn't even have a IR port!!!
I find it hard to believe that Disney just weeks after saying they were Blu-ray only is switching to neutral.
I also find it interesting that the only place to see it is in a small snipit in a little know trade publication.
However, if this rumor gathers any steam, we'll get an offical announcement here soon.
Again, Blu-ray sales are just better, and the format war just inhibits sales by keeping more customers on the sidelines. So it's not likely that Disney has any plans to go neutral.
Additionally there is the factor that HD DVD would probably be begging Disney and offering to pay for any Ad released that announced they were neutral.
GL with that though.