The format war: Pirates vs The Matrix
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Jun 1st 2007 12:08PM
posted Jun 1st 2007 12:08PM
In this latest chapter of the format war the BDA is once again patting themselves on the back because according to estimates by Home Media Magazine, the two Pirates movies outsold The Matrix box sets by a margin of over 3 to 1. While both of these titles got a lot of people excited and motivated people to buy, we're not impressed. For starters the box set includes 3 feature films, so 3-1 should be expected. The other important factor is cost, while the Pirates movies sold for $25 each, the box set was closer to $70 (depending on the version). Considering the differences here, we'd say they were pretty even, -- with the slightest edge to Pirates -- 
Does anyone even care about the Matrix? The first movie was okay, the other 2 sucked. That's why they force people to buy those damn 3 packs.
I lvoed all three for your information.
I bought my set and loved the films.
The same can be said about Pirates as well. The first one was good but the last two wreaked of sequel curse. Bad writing, open plotlines, faded acting...they should have ended it before the second one came out.
This has been debated elsewhere that this comparison isn't a valid one. 1st there are some of us that like the entire trilogy and were excited to get all 3. 2nd like stated Matrix is an older title and has different demographics. Also if you calculate monies not quantity it is not this slanted statistics that are being ranted about. I want this to be over so we can get the movies we all enjoy but this constant postering and claiming your phallic superiority is getting quite old.
"...but when you consider that one of the Pirates titles was a day-and-date release, this really isn't news at all."
Which Pirates movie was a day-and-date release? Answer: Neither. PotC: DMC came out on SD DVD last year.
Thanks for the correction, I crossed out that line.
I liked The Matrix and The Matrix Reloaded. Matrix Revolutions... I can best describe it as a good action movie (Terminator 3 anyone?). So I was throughly excited to get the HD-DVD boxset.
POTC, not so much, I didn't really like 1 or 2. I'm more excited to get Hellboy on blu-ray than POTC haha
"but when you consider that one of the Pirates titles was a day-and-date release, this really isn't news at all"
Might want to spend a little more time on research. All of these were catalog titles. Dead Men's Chest came out December 5, 2006.
It wasn't a matter of research, it was just a mistake. I really thought it was a day and date release. I guess I only keep up with the HD releases. ;)
"For starters the box set includes 3 feature films, so 3-1 should be expected."
This would make sense if the point you were trying to make was that Matrix outsold any given Pirates movie by a 3-1 factor and they were counting them as 3 sales in one box. Even then, it's a stretch. Not really sure what the point of this is.
Bottom line is pretty clear:
- Bundling 2 so-so movies with a good one is always bad for the customer. Why should I pay $70 for 3 movies when I really just want to watch one of them.
- HD-DVD's sales are falling further and further behind. It will only get worse this month when the BDP-S300 comes out, as well as Panasonics new player. It will get MUCH worse starting in August when really good PS3 games start being released and the PS3 starts actually selling - Heavenly Sword, GTAIV, Lair, Ratchet and Clank, etc, etc will all move consoles and this means Blu-ray players.
There will always be a place in my heart for HD-DVD - it was the little format the tried and was my first HD optical disc format - but let's face it... the future is Blu and there ain't no way around that fact.
I'm still not convinced how these two are "pretty even".
Wow, according to this thread, your format choice must now dictate your movie preference as well? Sheesh. C'mon get over it.
-Pie
In terms of sales, this *may have* been "debated elsewhere" but the comparison is indeed valid. These are the two highest profile releases on either format to date, and they arrived on the same day. We can argue unit sales vs. money made, but still, there was a lot of speculation as to which would sell more on both sides of the fence, and tons of excitement about potential sales as well.
Certainly the cost effected the Matrix, but the majority of early adopters are fans of these types of films -- The Fifth Element, though a poor master, topped the Blu-Ray charts for a very long time... into January if I'm not mistaken.
That Pirates outsold it by 3 to 1 is significant. But I agree it's important to see how well the Matrix does once it hits Blu-Ray -- and I'm praying they include a High Def Animatrix dammit! (Not holding my breath though.)
-Pie
From the article, they counted each "Pirates" disc as a separate sale. So, buying both movies was two sales. Yet the Matrix was one unit sale. So 47K Pirates discs vs 14K Martix sets. Which is ... wait for it ... about the SAME sales numbers, per movie, in each format (even disregarding the 4th movie in one Matrix set). And in dollar terms (47K x $25) vs (13K x $100 average) the Matrix sold more.
Add to this that the Pirates pair was released simultaneously with the 3rd Pirates movie (probably what Ben was thinking), which increased its immediacy, and you have very much a push.
Move along... nothing to see here. Especially if you're trying to spin this for BD.
Of course
Screw the haters..... Buy both sets...
The comparison is a bit ridiculous. Shouldn't we just compare the same movie on both formats rather than pull some ridiculous inference out of our arse comparing two different movies on two different formats?
Eeeehhh yeah I agree it's not a clear cut black and white win but I still see this as good good news for BD.
I'm just surprised that someone hasn't jumped in and somehow try to spin the actual post into an attack accusing Ben of secretly supporting and pushing for Blu-Ray, so I'll do so along the same lines of reasoning as those poster who usually undertake this chore:
[Fanboy]
"Oh yeah right like we're supposed to beleive this even though the poster obviuosly didn't hand count the discs sold himself and just reposts any internet rumor they hear and oh yeah used a pic with the two format logos showing blooray on top im never reading this site again until i see another post on blooray"
[/Fanboy]
The comments from the Disney guy are pretty funny.
In fact all comments out of the BD group are funny and usually full of errors and speculation.
For the record I bought all the movies in question.
Comparing sales figures for an expensive boxset against individual titles is rather lame and desperate but for the BD camp, this is typical.
@Jon above: I think the post was worded as to hint at exactly what you point out and I agree a comparison like that (maybe when 300 comes out next month on both formats) would be an ideal comparison, BUT there are still interesting conclusions to draw from these sales, just as overall sales, weekly sales, etc are a big indicator of the progress of one format over the other rather than looking strictly at a new same/same title sales numbers only.
Lets compare apples to apples here and take a look at BBC's Planet Earth, the HD DVD version has been on Amazon's #1 selling HD video for months now, and yet the Blu Ray version hasn't surpassed once.
The Matrix is an older movie, while Pirates just had its 3rd installment in theaters. The Matrix also has that higher price tag, so you'll see the Matrix sitting at the top for a longer time compared to Pirates eventually fadding out of the top...
Blu-Ray FTW! Go pirates!
An Open Letter to Disney and Bob Chapek.
Wake Up Disney and Bob Chapek!
Are you in the business of selling movies, or of selling hardware?
Did it hurt your sales figures to sell DVD & VHS for many years?
Then why do you want to sell DVDs, and Blu-ray discs, but not HD DVDs of the same titles?
Have you seen how well Warner does when it releases titles in all formats; without questioning the hardware choices of its customers?
Do you think your past customers who now own HD DVD players appreciate your trying to force them to buy a Blu-ray player?
Providing entertainment content should be your business; but what player we choose to use should be our choice, and not yours.
Do you like losing customers?
Do you like alienating those Disney fans whove been buying your DVDs for years?
As a customer who has decided that HD DVD is the high-definition format I prefer, you leave me, as a Disney fan, with few choices.
I can stop buying all Disney products.
I can buy an expensive Blu-ray Player.
I can buy a DVD and upscale it on my HD DVD player.
Or, I can wait until you release your titles day-and-date in HD DVD.
You can juggle the numbers all you like to convince yourself that units & sales figures between Pirates and Matrix movies are some kind of battle or war score; and you can talk all you want about winners and losers.
You can keep waving the Blu-ray flag that just irritates those of us who dont care to buy another player.
But in the end, you might finally come to your senses, get out of the hardware business, start making copies of your movies that will play on all of the Standard and Hi-Def formats, and start reaping the rewards from everyone; instead of trying to push your customers into a corner they dont want to be in.
Im not asking you to drop any of your customers; but if you ignore me, Ill probably just have to ignore you too.
William E. Hart
Fullerton, California
ps
I can play with numbers too.
47,000 units of Pirates vs 13,900 of Matrix is actually 47,000 vs 41,700 (3 Films Plus per set); and 47,000 times roughly $25 in stores vs 13,900 times roughly $70 in stores is actually $1,175,000 vs $973,000.
But 47,000 purchased by 6,000,000 player owners is only one copy per every 127 people; while 13,900 purchased by 100,000 player owners is one copy per every 7 people (or 1 copy per every 14 people if you believe there are 200,000 stand-alone HD DVD players out there).
Not a mandate or landslide either way; especially since all of these numbers combined dont mean a thing compared to todays DVD sales.
But the HD DVD market is growing, and shouldnt be ignored; because some people will never forget how they were treated.
And yes, I would have purchased the Pirate movies on May 22nd. too (along with The Matrix set), but you didnt offer it to me in HD DVD.
Show a little respect.
The Blu-ray market isn't growing? If Disney believes that Blu-ray is the format to support, then why should they support a format that they don't believe in? Especially since exclusivity to Blu-ray will hasten HD DVD's end? I wish Warner and Paramount would publish Blu-ray only, and that would bring a speedy end to this format war.
I have both HD DVD and Blu-ray, but I prefer Blu-ray. So I don't buy HD DVDs anymore. I figure that voting with my dollars will be the best thing I can do to encourage Universal to publish on Blu-ray, which would effectively end the format war. If you picked HD DVD, that's fine. But don't complain that you can't get Disney, Fox, MGM, or Sony Pictures movies because you picked that format.
TJ we don't take orders from you. I couldn't care less than you were dumb enough to buy a format you don't even support anymore. It's your money. Disney has the opportunity to gain my money...through HD DVD. If they don't want it then fine. I can live without their campy movies.
Disney also supported Divx....
How come it's never Planet Earth sales they report? I have to say this for the BD crowd -- Sony and Disney know how to get their message out, and the HD DVD marketers seem to be a bunch of slackers.
TJ--
And how many Fox or MGM movies are you expecting to buy soon on BD? They've got exactly zero announced through Christmas. Give Toshiba a few more months of stand-alone sales without competition and it'll be the BD camp breaking ranks to get at all those new customers.
Here is a link to a virtual edition of HMM. It should be on the page for BD vs HD sales for last week. Apocalypto sold 17,000 copies.
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom060307/index.php?startpage=4
This is another article that shows since the release of CR on March 13, untill the end of april, there were 74,000 units sold.
http://www.homemediaretailing.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?article_id=10717
I agree with Dylan Neild, I wish that HDDVD would have won also. However, its just a matter of time before Universal decides to put movies on BD. If the SI hits 60% BD by Augest. I fully expect Heroes to be on BD. It works both ways, thats what I realized a while ago. Why would Disney or Fox switch to get 30% of a market they want to help dominate with the BDA? It makes more sense to make Universal give up ignoring on the 70% they are missing, at which point the war would be over. Fox, Disney, and Sony see this, you guy's have got to start. The Weinsteins even made a BD just for the PS3, that's just shitty when an Exclusive studio shafts ya like that. Just like WB and Paramount did last year. If they would have stayed red, it may have gone a different way.
Plus there are people like William E. Hart that claim there are six million BD players out there. These are the people takeing part in these buy days, which to me looks desperate, but no offence. First there are like 1 million Ps3's in the U.S where these numbers are from, second there are just over 3 million worldwide. Sick thing is there could be 6,000,000 worldwide by the end of ther year though. Throw in the cheaper BD players that are coming, I hate to say it but its over. Hell, Batman Begins has been one of HDDVD's best sellers and it has even hit 100k copies yet, It's been out for like 8 months, and Casino Royale will have done it in a little over 2 months. Sure it's day and date, However the Pirates wern't, and they look like they will both sell as well as Casino Royale is. That's huge, I'm sorry but that says ALOT. Studios look at this as well. Plus the Departed was about 68% BD. Warner has reported that 70% of there HD movie sales are BD. Its just to much. I luv HDDVD and still do. I just hate wasting money!
i dont know who will win i think they both will co exist
Red--
If you look at the data on head-to-head on Iwo Jima (the only 2-format disc to show up both ways in the weeklies), BD had a 26.7 rating vs HD DVD's 22. Ahead, sure, but not so much ahead -- that translates to 55%-45% advantage Blu on a title that probably appeals some to PS3 owners.
If you look at the Amazon real-time figures, H* and B* are pretty much tied. After Toshiba finishes selling cheap HD-A2s to man and dog, this may well tilt the other way. Far too soon to call it. Especially with the 2nd gen BD players still offstage.
William,
First of all there are nowhere near 6 million PS3's in the US which is where all the sales figures are from. Also there are MANY more than 100,000 HD-DVD Players. They sold their 100,000th unit around the beginning of april and with all of their promos and huge discounts which basically equates to them basically giving you the player plus the xbox hd-dvd player sold its 100,000th unit in January so theres another 6 months of sales on top of that so there has to be no less than 350,000 players out there now at a minimum. So thats 1 matrix for every 25 people. There are roughly 1.5 million PS3's in the US (could be more couldnt find recent sales data so I guestimated) so thats 1 for every 31. Hardly the huge difference you tried to spread.
Aside from all of the promos that went on for the matrix including buy the matrix get two free hd-dvds that amazon and best buy ran it still sold less than 14,000 units. About the only information you got right was the dollars between discs so I commend you there.
All in all even though I support blu-ray I dont think it is fair to compare a box set to two individual movies. But since we are going to compare the sets and the matrix set gets tripled because its 3 movies then pirates should get 50% added to account for a 3rd movie to make it apples to apples or the same numbers or titles and cost. So 3 matrix movies would have sold a total of 41,700 and 3 pirates movies would have sold 70,500 still considerably more. If you want to go with 4 movies to offset the animatrix then the gap grows even more.
My point is if you want triple the marix set to make it "fair" you need to have the pirates set include 3 movies as well to have an accurate comparison.
Wikipedia puts the USA PS3 sales penetration at 1.3 million, with 2 million+ units shipped.
now mike u have a point. also i honestly think now i might be wrong when the holiday season approaches more studios will support hd dvd. thats only if blu ray players are not in the 300 dollar price range because lets be real ps3s are not sellin now call your local best buy or circuit city right now they are in stock as well as the sony blu ray players and they might be down to at least 2 hd dvd players or all hd dvd players are sold out. go ahead call em
So you agree then if by Sept Funai, those bastards, release a BD player for $299- $399, that studio support will be the same? If not all supporting BD, with only the same supporting HDDVD?
September @$400 will be the proverbial "day late and a dollar short."
An Open Letter to Disney and Bob Chapek is this:
Support Blu-Ray, and keep releasing high-bitrate, high-quality transfers. That's what HDTV is all about, and Pirates exemplifies the whole reason to go with HDTV.
You did a great job with Pirates, and I encourage you to keep up the good work.
And I will continue to purchase Disney Blu-Rays, and encourage my friends to do so as well.
-Pie
I don't know Kevin Murphy I find it hard to believe that Funai will produce a BD player unless they will be able to come in at a really competitive price. I have a real bad feeling that once 2nd gen BD players hit the market we are going to see some fairly low prices on Amazon.com. That new Panny comes with 5 movies in the box. Not this 8 weeks BS that ends up as a thread because people aren't getting them in 5 and because they go by internet time, they think they haven't gotten them, retards.
If they start selling that at $499 on Amazon.com by July, there is no way that Funai is going to come in at anything higher than $299. It really sucks that Sony(ass-faces) used BD in the Ps3, really if it weren't for them mass producing something that not near as many people wanted as they thought, they wouldn't have drove the price to produce BD hardware fast enough for someone like Funai to be in the game.
It just pisses me off that HDDVD kept touting lower production costs, yet when it came to go time, they couldn't get parts for Fuh Yaun(sorry if that isn't spelled right) cheap enough for Wal-mart to bite. Now Wal-Marts biggest supplier of DVD player/recorders has cheap BD hardware and has stated to investors that they will produce a BD player. I mean 52% of the market in the U.S., hell, they aren't going to put something out there unless it will be the same price, and I hate to fucking say this because I really don't want to jinx this, but cheaper than any HDDVD player that we have seen. Really that's how Funai has taken the DVD player market, and I doubt they would change their business model now since they have been making more money each year for the last three or four years. I'm just not buying it anymore that cheap Toshiba HDDVD players are going to be enought to win this war when. Sammy, Sony, Panny all have first and second gen players on the market. Lite-on makes a BD burner, hell they could just as easily start making a BD stand-alone once Funai enters the market. HDDVD still has no fucking burners out there, unless you want to drop like $3500 on a laptop that is! Seeing that BD sold 69% of the HD media last week when HDDVD player sales were up ten fold, only drives the point home in my head even more that HDDVD has no future. Fox has Die Hard 4 and The Simpsons Movie are coming out this summer, that will find there way to BD only just like A Night At the Museum did. I found out a while ago the FOX invented BD+, so they aren't going anywhere with this tiny market and BD controlling around 68% since the launch of that fucking PS3. It did the same thing in Europe to 68% of the sales there this year have been BD, but before the PS3 launched it was a 4:1 lead for HDDVD. Cheap players will not save HDDVD, I'm sorry Kevin Murphy they just won't. They are basically giving them away as it is, it really is over in my mind. Sorry Guy like I said I luv HDDVD, u control is great, but I'm not lettin Universal double dip me anymore. Take care man!
I would really like to see some statistics from Netflix and Blockbuster.com on the distribution of BR versus HD-DVD units in rental queues. A strong argument could be made that many do not and would not BUY any movie when they are easily rented (and dare I say ripped) from the aforementioned online movie rental companies. Note to Ben - Any way to get these details?
Aaron,
I agree, but Netflix does not respond to me and they don't seem to be sharing their information.
Here is a post we did a few months ago, which is probably still as accurate as it was when it was posted.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/28/hd-dvd-and-blu-ray-only-account-for-1-of-netflixs-shipments/
I agree with a lot of the posts here. Its not a fair comparison, however, it is not really 3 movies (Matrix Trilogy), its one box set, a single purchase item. When you buy a box set CD, its a single item, not 4 CD's inside each counting as their own. The POTC are 2 single purchases (I bought both) so I can see a 2 to 1 comparison. But then POTC appeals to multiple generations, kids, and adults, while Matrix appeals to mostly adults under 45, so it should sell more, maybe 3 to 1 is correct for volume comparisons only. Does that make sense?
The Matrix Revolutions is so far, the second best 7.1 sound mix I've heard, the sequences with the Hammer and the Sentinels in the tunnel are fantastic to sit there and be surrounded by, by far some of the best natural mixing and immersive audio I've heard from any film, (versus having your attention drawn to a certain position.
Interestingly enough, I sell TV (and thus HD-DVD and Blu-Ray for a living) and everyone I've explained both sides to and then shown the movies has picked HD-DVD, I've sold 5 players this week (2 HD-A2's and 3 HD-A20's) and no Blu-Ray players, with the exception of a single PS3. Admittedly there was an LG dual-format in there too.
That may just be my area, but I think the older 35+ crowd is choosing HD-DVD simply because they have a lof of older, catalog titles and rake in the family comedies, which BD has relatively few of.
Certainly some Salespeople(like one who posted above) will affect the buying choices of some consumers, and if you don't shop online(Amazon has a 469 Blu-ray player now, you just have to put it in your shopping cart to see the price) then the difference in price seems to make a good case for HD DVD as a format choice.
However, Blu-ray Disc enjoys the support of five of the six major studios, while HD DVD is supported by three of them. Three studios -- Sony, Disney and Fox -- are exclusively in the Blu-ray camp, as is mini-major Lionsgate. Paramount and Warner support both formats. Universal is the only major studio to release titles only in the HD DVD format.
Blu-Ray already has 15% more titles out than HD DVD. Each and every month they release just 1 or 2 more than HD is releasing.
In Disc Sales Blu-Ray is outselling HD DVD (And with more selection and releases it's only likely to continue.) creating an ever growing disparity in selection with Warner only helping BR by releasing on both formats so that many titles are available on both but more are Only available on BR. Most people don't know all the Technical differences so all they see are the same movies on both formats, and more movies only in BR.
No blu-ray only Studio will be switching over to releasing HD DVD which has less sell through and inhibits their current sell through and price points by lingering in the market; it's just a bad business move, and these companies are run by business people.
Given this we can conclude that only if HD DVD disc sales increase beyond blu-ray disc sales will there be a business incentive for companies to consider going neutral or locking out blu-ray, and with there being more studios currently locking out HD DVD, as well as those studios being the biggest Studios with releases this year like the spiderman trilogy and the Pirates trilogy(both PG-something releases unlike the R rated Matrix which is due out on BR later this year.), the likelihood of HD DVD discs sales overtaking Blu-ray disc sales is grim at best.
Every day that goes by the disc selection and disparity becomes a larger and larger reason for people to choose a Blu-ray player over an HD DVD player, so the likelihood in the coming months of increasing Blu-ray players sales, and Decreasing HD DVD players sales makes perfect sense.
In the average non-technical buyers mind, Disc player price point is the only reason to buy an HD DVD player, and the difference in Player prices is also shrinking every day.
Though it's still a smart bet to just not buy either Player type now, the likelihood, no matter the number of HD DVD player sales, that HD DVD wins the format war without gaining the support of companies that are not currently supporting the HD DVD format is not just small, it's non-existent. If HD DVD sales overall do not begin to surpass Blu-ray disc sales Blu-ray will only gain more momentum with an ever growing catalog of movie titles.
Even if the movie 300 sold more on HD DVD it wouldn't matter if overall Disc sales each month are greater for Blu-ray. Even though it launched just after HD DVD Blu-ray disc sales have already surpassed HD DVD disc sales and continue to do so.
Planet earth, 300, The Matrix, no single Title sales number will matter.
HD DVD Fans had better hope that the people that bought the Cheapest price point yet are now willing to not just buy an HD DVD title they like when it comes along, but run out and buy at least 1 a month, because if they don't these added players won't affect the overall discs sales per month, and if that doesn't happen, which I think it won't, Blu-ray will only continue to grow in dominance.
Time is not on HD DVDs side.
That "$469" BD player at Amazon MR F talks about is a widely dissed 1st gen closeout (BDP-1000) missing MANY features added in the BDP-1200 (currently on sale for $650), and which was known for a soft picture. And even then it costs twice what an HD DVD with more features costs. Gotta do better than that.
Red--
BD got a great jump with the PS3. As of now PS3 is well over 90% of what they have in the field. What you are seeing on sales over the last few months is driven almost entirely by PS3 purchases.
Everything HDDVD has is purchased for movies only -- even the Xbox add-on. They have fewer total players out there than BD. Less than half considering the 1.3+ million PS3s in the USA. But they sell more discs per base unit. Obviously the only way to increase disc sales is to increase base units, and hopefully faster than BD can. The lower the price the more they sell. D'oh.
OF course, if BD can sell stand-alone players fast enough this strategy won;t work. IF Sony can sell PS3s fast enough (probably 5-10 times the rate needed for stand-alones), Toshiba's strategy won't work. Fortunately for Toshiba, the PS3 craze has ended and that's probably not going to do it. What would do it is if there was price-competitive BD product.
Note: to most consumers there is no differnce between the two formats, because it's all techie mumbo-jumbo to them and the picture looks the same. 50 GB, unconpressed audio, blah blah blah ginger. As if it matters anyway.
Where I shop, the two formats seem to have the same number of movies, and by Xmas, when it matters, they'll both have bunches more. So, all I see is price.
That seems to be all Amazon shoppers see either. Now, if BD keeps holding the lead over at eProductWars and HdGameDb for the next month or so, I'll have to reconsider. But HD DVD was up for 5 days last week on some charts, so things aren't trending towards BD.
Here you go Kevin Murphy a $499 BD player MSRP for pre-order. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-YiKp6Iqzehj/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=279850&I=158BDPS300 ...Full BD-J support, says right in the specs. MSRP also means all the B&Ms are going to have this bad boy out there for $499. No more $999 at the B&M's. I fully expect an aggresive ad campain for this and the $599 Panny with 5 movies in the box. Plus I expect them to start pulling the content ace when they have these aggressive ads out there.
Funai is going to Kick the absolute shit out of what is left of HDDVD when there BD player hits the market, and I think I might buy one of there $150 POS and take a dump on it and post it on you tube! LMFAO
HDDVD's price advantage is offically over! I'm sorry guy but this is what I was saying. HDDVD was fun, but now the fun is done and it's into the sea of Blu for me. Take care man!
damn red u realy want blu ray to win.well from my research both formats can share the market. now i agree with u when u said what if funai makes a affordable blu ray player then the studios maybe will stay put with blu ray but my cousin works for wal mart and he said hd dvd will be sellin a cheaper player also i think both formats will tackle the market. but just think if the ps3 didnt have a blu ray player it will be over because blu ray players are not sellin like hd dvd players did u call circuit city or best buy.remeber red everybody is going to choose the format they prefer. i think its premature for blu ray fans and hd dvd fans to sit on these reader comments and cheer onbashing each other for a format because they think they have a winner were not makin money from hd dvd or blu ray its stupid and childish hey i got hd dvd if u bash me fine its cool but i want bash u. u like blu ray and i like hd dvd lets just enjoy this technology because its not going nowhere with the rise of hdtvs and stop being cheerleaders. peace
$499. Fine. Only $200 over the list price of the A2 and $150 over the Amazon price of the A20, if you want to harp on 1080p, which is really meaningless at 60fps. Most installed HD sets are 720p (plasma) or 1080i anyway.
But better than $799, I have to admit. Still, the "day late and a dollar short" comment seems apt.
Listen Will, or should I call you William E. Hart? By your research there are 6 million Ps3's out there, so basically I consider anything that comes out of your mouth a lie.
I am not a BD supporter, I bought an A2 last year when they were over $500. However, I am a realest, I'm not going to try and say that HDDVD has a chance at this point anymore because what does DVD share the market with again?? People want a single format. I am sick of this format war. I don't know if you had your xbox 360 add-on last year, but all I heard on forums before the Ps3 came out is that it would have no effect on BD since inception sales, the lead that HDDVD had was just to huge. Guess what happened? The exact opposite. Then CES rolls around. All I start hearing is how cheaper HDDVD players are going to crush this expensive game box's sales. There were excuses like, ya there are no games for the PS3 what else are they going to buy? and, By march this Ps3 effect will be over.
It's the start of June, and even though players have dropped about 50%, HDDVD has made up no ground. In fact since inception is now 57% BD. But wait, 3 matrix Disks were in the box set and it made as much money as the Pirates. Ya what happens when the Matrix hits BD and they sell 26,000 box sets in one week? The arguments are getting weaker and BD players are getting cheaper. I just can't see Universal staying exclusive much longer, and like I said, I'm not letting a movie studio double dip me on HD formats. VHS to DVD, fine, DVD to HDDVD, fine. But not HDDVD to BD. I barely buy any movies that I have on another format so I'm dead set against buying two of the same movies on an HD format.
That's why I stopped buying HDDVD's before the first buy day. To me that was the first sign that HDDVD was starting to really fall behind, the fans thought tipping the scales on Amazon.com for a few days would make studios take note. Take note alright, at the fact that it takes a concentrated effort by HDDVD supporters to buy more media than the consistent BD media that is sold.
So Will next time you decide to not read all of the posts that someone has posted on a thread, then try and flame them. Maybe just stop and use the little peanut brain that you have to understand that not everyone wants to just blindly throw money at companies just to try and get a format that they created off the ground. Like you said, they aren't paying us, why should we care?
These aren't consoles...its impossible for these to share the market in the long run. This will last for a max of 1.5-2 years, and then one format has to go.
Blu ray will win eventually (if not already), but HDDVD will put up a good fight to the end (i can see big price cuts and bundle offers...ultimately futile)
why cant they share the market? bill gates and steve jobs share the market cars and public transportation share the market cds and mp3s share the market dial up, dsl and broadband share the market its possible. this is not the early beta vs. vhs days this is a new day.
Both formats won't share the market.
And Sony Pictures sure won't be releasing HD DVDs any time soon.
It will very likely come down to the Marketing campaign for this holiday season.
If Disney releases the Incredibles on Blu-ray and splashes all over that ad that the incredibles like All Disney movies are available only on Blu-ray, it's over.
An R-rated movie as popular as the Matrix is Rare, but family movies like Disney makes sells tons of DVDs.
The general public just doesn't know about the studio support, so unless it's mentioned by a salesperson, who really is only selling the player and doesn't care about whether it will get use by the customer in a year, then the customer doesn't even know that the majority of catalog movie titles aren't planned for release on HD DVD.
It's easier to sell the cheaper player, and these Salespeople make money selling these things, so it is likely that they will steer people to HD DVD till the prices for the players get closer.
That plan, the low player price point, would have worked too if it weren't for Sony willing to bleed some to get Blu-ray into the market place via the PS3.
Just like Elround in the LOTR, Old Sony execs who are still working for the company were THERE when the customers were weak and couldn't throw Beta into mount DOOM! If you think these old japanese guys are not willing to sacrifice some to get what they think is a better product out there, knowing they had a better product once before and let it slip through their hands, you just don't know these people.
They are already winning, on several fronts, and I would wager they will bleed more money selling a $199.00 blu-ray player if that's what it takes to win.
However, given what we have seen so far, they won't have to do that. Europe is already Blu-ray due to the player prices being pretty much the same unlike here, and with PS3 sales, which will keep going up, though slowly, Sony can just wait without spilling anymore blood than they already have for the public to come around.
There are already articles in the main stream Media that herald the Death of HD DVD ---> http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2220834920070423
And the release of ABC series like Desperate housewives by Disney this fall, though only Lost is listed in that article as having a Blu-ray release, it's likely close to the other releases you'll see Blu-ray versions of those shows, some of the most popular on television.---> http://www.reuters.com/article/industryNews/idUSN3146161920070601
I'll say it again, Time is not on HD DVDs side.