European Commission looks into Blu-ray studio agreements
By Erik Hanson 
posted Jul 4th 2007 10:35AM
posted Jul 4th 2007 10:35AM
European regulators have begun an inquiry into possible antitrust and anticompetitive practices by the Blu-ray Disc Association as it relates to agreements and restrictions on producing content for Blu-ray and its competing high-definition format, HD DVD. At the urging of some in the HD DVD camp, the European Commission has sent letters to many of the Hollywood studios asking them to produce any correspondence relating to their backing of the Blu-ray format. Of the major studios, Sony, Disney, Fox, Lions Gate, and MGM only release titles on Blu-ray, while only Universal is exclusive to HD DVD. Analysts say much is riding on the outcome of which format wins, with sales of content and players as a big incentive for either side. Is this inquiry just a case of sour grapes by HD DVD that sees itself as in trouble while Blu-ray has better agreements with studios? Or is the BDA not playing fair by using those vertical relationships to form a de facto monopoly? Those in the EU aim to find out.[Thanks, LJKelley]
Using one monopoly to acquire another is illegal in the US as well. As Microsoft found out. There is no question that if BD becomes the one standard, Sony's patents would become very valuable. Since patents, like copyrights, are government-supported monopolies, one might well ask if it is legal for Sony to use its vast store of copyrighted movies to leverage an optical disk monopoly.
ahh shit somebody playin dirty well i hope blu ray and hd dvd got there shit together because maybe the truth will finally come to light. i dont understand how toshiba's hd players are outselling blu ray players and the blu ray camp insist they are outselling them in movies and players thats bullshit and yes sony has to be payin some studios under the table to get their format to win. i've always said this is a dirty war and i find it hard to believe blu ray is outselling hd dvd players beacause if u go to your local bb or cc the hd dvd players are either sold out or low in stock and they have a ton of blu ray players and ps3's
Another HD DVD fanboy! You guys are sore losers and can't accept it!!!
Mr. Will take it easy. Also I guess that if HD DVD wins. Toshiba has all the patients to the HD DVD wit MS, so that not a monopoly. When the BDA are allot of companies that share the patients and profits. So, I guess Toshiba messed up too. Both side of this fan boy crap are blind. I guess Toshiba dumping players on the market, so other manufactures can't compete; I guess that’s not a monopoly move? And the Universal group also.
Also, it always comes up Sony is paying the other companies money. can't they want to be on BD because they control there own region coding or betting copyright production, so I guess Universal is doing it out of there good heart to Toshiba! hmmm. Also, explain to be how only Sony fucked up
Are you a gongbeater? Toshiba and MS in this instance have formed an alliance to sell their products, all above board and legal. I'll type slowly for you know, this is called b u s i n e s s , duh.
"Toshiba dumping cheap players" .... , typing slowly again,... that's business and maybe a survival necessity. All legal and above board, great for consumers and nothing to do with a monopoly.
If Sony has colluded with the film companies, that is a f**k up, plain and simple. What that means is, typing slowly again now, if they win this war, they will try to dominate and dictate market strategies as Sony always does, and it is the consumer who will loose.
I am not anti blu ray, but i am anti Sony's behavior. They have a proven track record in deceptive and underhanded anti consumer behavior and if blu ray wins, we will all have to pay more, simple.
Are you a gongbeater? Toshiba and MS in this instance have formed an alliance to sell their products, all above board and legal. I'll type slowly for you know, this is called b u s i n e s s , duh.
"Toshiba dumping cheap players" .... , typing slowly again,... that's business and maybe a survival necessity. All legal and above board, great for consumers and nothing to do with a monopoly.
If Sony has colluded with the film companies, that is a f**k up, plain and simple. What that means is, typing slowly again now, if they win this war, they will try to dominate and dictate market strategies as Sony always does, and it is the consumer who will loose.
I am not anti blu ray, but i am anti Sony's behavior. They have a proven track record in deceptive and underhanded anti consumer behavior and if blu ray wins, we will all have to pay more, simple.
Mr. Will take it easy. Also I guess that if HD DVD wins. Toshiba has all the patients to the HD DVD wit MS, so that not a monopoly. When the BDA are allot of companies that share the patients and profits. So, I guess Toshiba messed up too. Both side of this fan boy crap are blind. I guess Toshiba dumping players on the market, so other manufactures can't compete; I guess that’s not a monopoly move? And the Universal group also.
Also, it always comes up Sony is paying the other companies money. can't they want to be on BD because they control there own region coding or betting copyright production, so I guess Universal is doing it out of there good heart to Toshiba! hmmm. Also, explain to be how only Sony fucked up
Well, you may/may not be a fanboy, but you sure need to go back to English class in high school.
Instead of arguing about the format, let's look at the history of a company like Sony and how they seem incapable having their new child reaching puberty
Beta vs VHS
Mini Disc
Memory Stick vs SD card
PSP
and not look at the PS3 big flop....
etc
I'm not a FANBOY and sure not an idiot to backup a company that dared to release HD movies in MPEG 2. That's just not right!
Sony is so busy with the DRM and their exclusive rights that they forgot about the customer.
In the meantime that the war is waged, I bought a HD-DVD player (much cheaper than BLU-ray) and I rent HD movies online.
At the end, Sony
At the end, Sony can't be trusted
Wow, the HD DVD fanboys are out in full-force today lol.
that picture graph is COMPLETELY false everyone knows that HD-DVD destroyed blu-ray last year. with july being 79.86% for HD-DVD and 20.14% and 75-25 for august in foavor of HD-DVD. Blu-ray did not lead until december because of the ps3 because there were no games to play except for resistance and that probably got old after a month or the only thing being played. THey didn't catch up till like feb when the ps3's sales dropped. But HD-DVD is making a comback with strong sales of Planet Earth on HD-DVD and soon 300 with exclusive content and being a combo format for only $5 more then the blu-ray version.
http://www.dvdempire.com/Content/Features/hidef_wars.asp
I love the way HD-DVD fanboism turns people into such morons they can't even see when they are providing evidence that is proving themselves wrong. Thanks for the DVD Empire link, which shows Blu-ray with a nice 62.13% sales lead on that site, even after the two month head start that HD-DVD had and could not maintain - anymore 'proof' you'd like to offer up?
Ha, ha.
What's more is, Blu-ray is maintaining its lead at a time when the sales volume is much higher for ether format than it was back when HD-DVD had their two month head-start-helped lead, and, wait for it, wait for it, in a little over a month, Blu-ray will have held it's sales lead longer than HD-DVD ever did.All while selling more units than HD-DVD ever did. Ha ha. Wake up.Oh, and HDi and IME - lame. BD-J is already here and come Nov 1st you fanbois won't have any talking points anymore - MANDATORY PROFILE 1.1. Now, go boil some discs.
LoL it's definately a crooked war. Because presumably the Blu-Ray format *should* be dominating with it's Studio Support. But with the extremely high cost of a Blu-Ray player, nobody wants to buy it.
Sony might have thought using the PS3 to introduce Blu-Ray was a good idea, but not when a mere 10-15% or so use their PS3's to actually play movies. PS3 is what gave Blu-Ray a boost in Software Sales, but the PS3 isn't even competing with the other Video-Game consoles that are out (its getting SMASHED in sales when compared to the Wii and X360). Sony's in a lose/lose situation. How is Blu-Ray supposed to win when the main Blu-Ray player that consumers buy (the PS3) isn't doing nearly as well as it's competition? (more people buy dedicated players to play their movies, and the PS3 is far far behind in sales as a Video Game Console).
thats just my take on the situation :)
Well, PS3 may not be the top selling game system but there sure are a hell of alot more ps3's in peoples hands than hd-dvd players. Toshiba has to find some way to convince those millions of people that they also need to go spend money on a different player/format when what they currently have will do the job better than hd-dvd can or will be able to.
I aslo keep hearing these same arguments about nobody watching BD's are their ps3 or attach rates etc etc. Yet, week after week hd-dvd gets its ars handed to it in sales. That sure is strange. Must be sony paying somebody off. BTW, while the EU is at it, they should investigate Universals reluctance to release on BD. Could Microsoft be paying someone off for that? Nah, impossible. Only Sony is capable of that.
...Your all forgetting blu-ray did better at blockbuster. Guess there's a reason for that.
Of course it is sour grapes. And their graph is wrong. Its nearly 60-40 since inception in favor of BD. By the time the EU could do anything HD-DVD will have taken its place in the trash heap of failed products.
Well DUH of course blu-ray has more sales it has like 10 times more units and HD-DVD is still doing good and keeping it so close despite having 10 times more units. Blu-ray would be dead if it wasn't able to have the lead, but when you look at actual STB sales the HD-DVD has 70-30. just wait till christmas when HD-DVD will lower it's prices again and potentially hit the sweet-spot of $200-250 which is very doable seeing how you can already get one for $300 and even $220 used or refurbished i just bought a $300 HD-A20 full 1080p on amazon slightly used still in box and the 5 free movies. Also with features like in 300 and others like blood diamond and fast and the furious where you can create a customized car and watch it in the movie even if it's just brief that is still cool. I still think HD-DVD has a better selection plus if i want to watch Disney movies or fox movies i can just buy the DVD and have my player upconvert which is just as good for now :-)
Here's the thing: The EU doesn't like it when a company or set of companies collude in such a way as to hurt consumers. So, is this happening in the blue laser war?
Well, if all studios supported all formats, we'd have a straight-out fight between BD's better specs and HD DVD's much lower price.
Is HD DVD good enough? Is the price for BD worth the extra capacity? Are other features meaningful for a given customer's A/V setup? Does one format have a better picuture or sound? Does Bluray's extreme copy protection bother them? Etc.
All these questions could be answered by the consumer and the war could be settled in the marketplace. BUT WITH STUDIO EXCLUSIVITY all these questions are moot, and the main question is "what films can I get?"
This means that the corporate choices override those of the consumer, and some of the REASONS behind those corporate choices (e.g. copy protection) are hardly in the consumer's interest. And THAT is very likely a problem in Europe, and possibly in the USA.
That's a LIE! Whoever wrote this is full of bullshit, the HD DVD was the highest of all in 2006, and Blu-ray is lowest, and then now, Blu-ray is catching up and doing pretty well, but I still rather and stick to HD DVD, Blu-ray does dsome good job by learning THEIR MISTAKES and start improvement their codes and softwares. But still, HD DVD is someway better than Blu-ray for highest selling on amazon and cheaper HD DVD players and also IME and U-Control, so I'm gonna stick until HD DVD win or lose, if lose then I'll get a cheap Blu-ray player, but I don'y like their design and greedy ways!
Yes, HD-DVD was the top seller of 2006, right up until the point that the PS3 was released. BD has been outselling HD-DVD by a margin of at least 2-1 month after month in 2007. BD surpassed HD-DVD in total disc sales since the inception of the formats sometime in Feb or March. Soon it will be 60-40 since launch. Those ain't lies, those be FACTS.
Nice post. And accurate.
you blu-ray idiots are about as arrogant as sony is. I guess you match the people you vote for.
did you even read my comment? i said DUH you idiot of course blu-ray has the lead it has around 10 times more players and it's still that close 60-40 is really good when you are out-numbered 10-1 and the ration for HD-DVD is still more then 10 times higher per player then Blu-ray which has like 1/3 ration compared to 3-4 HD-DVDs per player. When you actually look at it on paper HD-DVD shouldn't even be around anymore with the least amount of studio support and had NO MOVIE releases for like a month or so in march. Also despite all the PS3 sales it still took all the way until april for blu-ray to sell it's millionth movie and HD-DVD was right behind them with NO NEW RELEASES for that whole month. That looks really bad for blu-ray. I just ordered like 5 movies for my HD-DVD player, which i have 2 of (one in the living room and one in my room on my 70" DLP) and Just ordered another like 5-10 movies last month on HD-DVD and there is alot more coming like 300, heroes (which will not be on blu-ray), TMNT, Hot fuzz, shaun of the dead, what dreams may come, and can't wait for battlestar galactica, the ocean's movies 11-13, etc...
plus we all know the one who has the cheapest price will win and that will be HD-DVD this christmas when they do another price drop right before black friday to the sweetspot of $200-250.
you will see.
by the way nice name blu-god, gee i wonder who you are for? lame
Also i think it's funny how blu-ray people use space as a reason why blu-ray is better , "we have 25 gigs per disc and they only have 15" then why is it that HD-DVD primarily uses double density discs which use 30 gigs (which are still cheaper then blu-ray ones, also i haven't heard that lame excuse since they switched to DD ones) and blu-ray primarily uses single density (because double density still is a bit pricey) which is 25 gigs. Oh look at that HD-DVD uses 5 gigs more haha.
we can sit here and argue and bitch all day but we will see who wins when the HD-DVD player lowers it's price again. Also once the games finally start rolling out for the PS3 the blu-ray sales will drop, because they finally have something to play.
While the EU is at it, they might as well order all the BD exclusive CE vendors to produce hd-dvd players and just to keep things fair, force Toshiba to build BD players and MS to provide an external BD drive. Better yet, the busy bodies at the EU should order MS to build xbox's that don't crap out over and over.
And to all you people who ring your hands over DRM, how exactly does it affect you directly?
"And to all you people who ring your hands over DRM, how exactly does it affect you directly?"
Well, it makes it illegal for me to rip my collection of DVDs onto my PC for one (breaking CSS is a federal crime because you're violating the DMCA - that's why lots of software that's available to do it has been disconinuted - lawsuits). Along the same lines, I can't legally watch DVDs using Linux.
I can't take the movies and watch them on an Archos video player (same reason).
With Sony's new DRM that they put on regular DVDs (against the DVD spec, I might add), many DVD players won't even PLAY the movie (did I mention that it violates the DVD spec?). That one didn't bite me, but it bit lots of other people.
The Sony Rootkit on some of their CDs falls under a similar realm -- they want to monitor how you're using your media and stop you from ripping/burning/copying CDs that you buy.
And I won't even get into the requirement of needing an HDCP-compliant video display to view upscaled DVDs or the ability to watch HD DVD and Blu-Ray on your PC. There's no TECHNICAL reason why I can't watch a video on my PC, only DRM ones. (for example, http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/11/first-blu-ray-pc-drive-wont-play-blu-ray-movies-we-know/ )
That a good enough list, or should I go on?
the big question is if blu ray is the future format the next big thing to standard dvd why is eu looking into there studio agreements? it's a reason all of a sudden its being looked into now if it is some sneaky shit going on we will find out when another studio decides all of a sudden to support hd dvd. come on now something is up not just with blu ray,hd dvd aswell
Let me school you again, HD-DVD fanboi:
First of all, it's 50GB discs vs. 30GB discs AND 25GB discs Vs. 15GB discs. Either you're too stupid to realise that, or it's a fact you 'conveniently' left out of the debate. That doesn't even begin to take into account the ridiculously limited bandwidth that HD-DVD has that it can never overcome regardless of how much disc space they add. Try this on for size: just over 30Mb/s for both audio AND video - that is the pathetic bitrate that HD-DVD is limited to. (oh, Blu-ray? Try 40Mb/s for the video ALONE and another 8Mb/s for the audio ALONE plus an additional 6Mb/s for extras. ) There is no wonder that M$ is always trying to argue that low bitrate VC-1 is 'good enough' and lossy DD+ is 'just as good or better than lossless or PCM'. Because: A) That is all HD-DVD can handle and B)M$ and Toshiba are trying to kill optical discs in favour of downloads (which you idiots cannot see) and it is easier to move low bitrate lossy rubbish around networks. The sole purpose of HD-DVD, and M$' backing of it is to throw a wrench in the adoption of next-gen HD optical formats and to stall for low quality downloads. Otherwise, there would be no reason for Toshiba to have done this:
Toshiba exits film, DVD production; sells unit to Hakuhodo DY Media
Published : Mon, 16 Apr 2007 06:59
By : Agencies
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TOKYO (XFN-ASIA) - Toshiba Corp said it has decided to exit the film and DVD production and distribution business with the sale of its subsidiary Toshiba Entertainment Inc.
Toshiba said it will sell its fully-owned subsidiary -- which was created in 2003 -- to Japanese firm Hakuhodo DY Media Partners Inc for an undisclosed sum to focus on its core electronics and energy
operations.
'In its future business in media content, Toshiba will concentrate resources on network technology, broadcasting and telecommunication technology, and digital media products that can create a synergy with fields where the company already has established strengths,' Toshiba said in a statement.
In December, Toshiba announced plans to sell its entire stake in Japanese label Toshiba EMI to British partner EMI Group, saying that music was no longer relevant to its business.
http://www.abcmoney.co.uk/news/16200756394.htm
Now, on to the next schooling:
Cheap Toshiba players will win. Yeah, right. Like the consumer doesn't want choice. All they want is cheap players they can only get from Toshiba, what about Sony, Philips, Pioneer, Panasonic, Samsung, Sylvania, Emerson, and Magnavox (http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=277)? OKIE DOKIE. Hah HAHAHAAHHAAA! Not only that, but I guess the consumer ants cheap players that they can't play movies from Disney, Fox, Sony, Starz Home Entertainment (Anchor Bay), Lionsgate, and Exoptron on either, oh or can't walk into a Blockbuster Video store to rent a title for in practically every area of the country. I can see it now ' What do you think dear, should we get the cheap Toshiba player for $220, or the (fill in any other CE of choice) for one or two hundred more so we can watch Ratatouille, Cars, Spiderman, Pirates of the Caribbean, Die Hard, (fill in any other Blu-ray exclusive of choice)? - nah, let's get the Toshiba.' Hahh hahha hahhhhaaaaa.
BTW, by Toshiba's own numbers, they have only sold 50,000 more 'stand-alone' players than Blu-ray - that's 150,000 Vs. 100,000 - Google it. That rubbish dongle of an X-box add-on sold an addition 150,00 units. The PS3 sold 1.6 million units. Roughly 1/3 of PS3 users are using them solely as Blu-ray players, so that's about 630,000 'dedicated' Blu-ray players.
To put it even MORE into perspective for you HD-DVD fanbois that seem to be really slow on the uptake:
Nielsen/VideoScan Numbers ending June 24th
Week Ending: BD-70% HDD-30% Year to Date: BD-67% HDD-33% Since Inception: BD-59% HDD-41%
2007 Yearly Box Office Gross (to Date):
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/yearly/chart/?yr=2007&view=releasedate&view2=domestic&sort=gross&order=DESC&&p=.htm
1 Spider-Man 3 (Sony) $333,790,022 (BD Exclusive)
2 Shrek the Third (P/DW) $314,132,750
3 Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (BV) $296,454,390 (BD Exclusive)
4 300 (WB) $210,524,305
5 Wild Hogs (BV) $166,943,052 (BD Exclusive)
6 Knocked Up (Uni.) $123,344,430 (HDDVD Exclusive)
7 Blades of Glory (P/DW) $117,912,269
8 Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (Fox) $116,121,001 (BD Exclusive)
9 Ghost Rider (Sony) $115,802,596 (BD Exclusive - already released on BD)
10 Ocean's Thirteen (WB) $102,907,030
11 Meet the Robinsons (BV) $96,534,518 (BD Exclusive)
12 Norbit (P/DW) $95,360,247
13 Bridge to Terabithia (BV) $82,272,442 (BD Exclusive - already released on BD)
14 Disturbia (P/DW) $78,843,606
15 Evan Almighty (Uni.) $62,861,090 (HDDVD Exclusive)
16 Stomp the Yard (SGem) $61,356,221 (BD Exclusive - already released on BD)
17 Ratatouille (BV) $54,578,355 (BD Exclusive)
18 TMNT (WB) $54,149,098
19 Surf's Up (Sony) $54,136,127 (BD Exclusive)
20 Live Free or Die Hard (Fox) $52,675,091 (BD Exclusive)
As you can see, of the Top 10 grossing films, 5 are exclusive to Blu-ray and only 1 is exclusive to HD-DVD, that means Blu-ray has available to it 9 of the Top 10 films and HD-DVD only 5. When we expand out to the Top 20 grossing films to date, we see that 11 of the Top 20 Grossing films are Blu-ray exclusives and only 2 are HD-DVD exclusives. Blu-ray has available to it 18 of the Top 20 grossing films to date, while HD-DVD has only 9. Yeah, the holiday season is going to be tremendous for HD-DVD. LMAO. Hahaha.
Oh, here's one more tidbit to wrap it all up:
The BDA:
Board of Directors
Apple, Inc.
Dell
HP
Hitachi
LG
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic
Pioneer
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Sun Microsystems
TDK
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney
Warner Bros.
Contributors
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.
Almedio Inc.
Alticast
Aplix Corporation
ArcSoft, Inc.
AudioDev AB
Broadcom Corporation
Canon Inc.
CMC Magnetics Corporation
Coding Technologies GmbH
Cryptography Research Inc.
CyberLink Corp.
DATARIUS Technologies GmbH
Daxon Technology Inc.
D-Box Technologies Inc.
DCA Inc.
Deluxe Media Services Inc.
Dolby Laboratories Inc.
DTS, Inc.
Esmertec
FUJIFILM Corporation
Fujitsu Ltd.
Funai Electric Co., Ltd.
Gibson Guitar Corp.
Imation Corp.
InterVideo Inc.
Kenwood Corporation
Lenovo
Lionsgate Entertainment
LITE-ON IT Corporation
LSI Logic
MediaTek Inc.
Meridian Audio Ltd.
Mitsubishi Kagaku Media Co.Ltd.
Mitsui Chemicals Inc.
Monster Cable Products
Moser Baer India Limited
NEC Electronics Corporation
Nero
Paramount Pictures Corporation
Pixela Corporation
Prodisc Technology Inc.
Pulstec Industrial Co., Ltd.
Ricoh Co., Ltd.
Ritek Corporation
ShibaSoku Co. Ltd.
Sigma Designs Inc.
Silicon Integrated Systems Corporation
Sonic Solutions
Sonopress
Sony BMG Music Entertainment
ST Microelectronics
Sunext
Taiyo Yuden Co., Ltd.,
Victor Company of Japan, Ltd.
Visionare Corporation
Zentek Technology Japan, Inc.
ZOOtech Ltd.
Zoran Corporation
Members
Adobe Systems
Alpine Electronics Inc.
Arima Devices Corporation
ashampoo GmbH & Co. KG
Atmel Corporation
Avid Development GmbH
Bandai Visual Co. Ltd.
BASF AG
B.H.A. Corporation
Bose Corporation
B&W Group
The Cannery
Cheertek Inc.
Cinram Manufacturing Inc.
CustomFlix Labs, Inc.
Custom Technology Inc.
D&M holdings, Inc.
Daewoo Electronics Corporation
Daikin Industries, Ltd.
Eclipse Data Technologies
Elpida Memory, Inc.
Expert Magnetics Corp.
Falcon Technologies International
Fujitsu Ten Ltd.
GalleryPlayer Media Networks
Gear Software
Global Machinery Co., Ltd.
Hie Electronics, Inc.
Hoei Sangyo Co., Ltd
Horizon Semiconductor.
IMAGICA Corp.
INFODISC Technology Co., Ltd.
Infomedia Inc.
Intersil Corporation
Iwatsu Test Instruments
Kobe Steel Co. Ltd.
Konica Minolta Opto Inc.
Lauda Co. Ltd.
Lead Data Inc.
LEADER ELECTRONICS CORP
Linn Products Ltd.
LINTEC Corporation
M2 Engineering AB
MainConcept AG
Mitsumi Electric Co., Ltd.
Must Technology Co., Ltd.
MX Production Services
Netflix Inc.
Newtech Infosystems Inc.
NexWave Solutions
Nichia Corporation
Nikkatsu Corporation
NTT Electronics Corporation
nVidia Corporation
OC Oerlikon Balzer AG
Omnibus Japan Inc.
Onkyo Corporation
Online Media Technologies Ltd.
Ono Sokki Co., Ltd.
OPT Corporation
Optodisc Technology Corporation
Origin Electric Co., Ltd.
Osmosys SA
Plannet Associates
PoINT Software & Systems GmbH
Pony Canyon Enterprise
Primera Technology, Inc.
Q-TEC, Inc.
Quanta Storage Inc.
Realtek Semiconductor Corp.
Rimage Corporation
Sanyo Electric Co., Ltd.
Dr. Schwab Inspection Technology GmbH
Singulus Technologies
STEAG ETA-OPTIK GmbH
Targray Technology International Inc.
TEAC Corporation
Teijin Chemicals Ltd.
Texas Instruments, Inc.
THX Ltd.
Toei Video Company Ltd.
Toho Company, Ltd.
Toppan Printing Co., Ltd.
TOPTICA Photonics AG
Trailer Park
UmeDisc Ltd.
Universal Music Group, Inc.
Yamaha Corporation
Yokogawa Electric Corporation
1K Studios, LLC
NEXT.
BR fanboys please explain... Why are u fanboys??
BR is way more expensive then HD DVD, same A/V qualities, mostly on internet connection so not interactive, most current BR players about to be obsolete because of standardization in October and Sonys proven draconian anti customer market domination strategies that constantly change product specs and require constant and expensive updating.
please don't tell me the only advantage is more capacity, who cares and if its more studios, maybe this investigatin is good. if Sony has colluded with the studios, it is for 1 reason only, to force us the consumer to pay more money!
Please, some one explain to me WHY IS BLU RAY BETTER???... I dont understand why any sane person would want to support it, I am no HD DVD fanboy, I just think its a way cheaper, great quality product.
The way I see it, we the consumers should all band together and boycott blu ray, it's going to cost us all a lot of extra money for nothing!
BR fanboys please explain... Why are u fanboys??
BR is way more expensive then HD DVD, same A/V qualities, mostly on internet connection so not interactive, most current BR players about to be obsolete because of standardization in October and Sonys proven draconian anti customer market domination strategies that constantly change product specs and require constant and expensive updating.
please don't tell me the only advantage is more capacity, who cares and if its more studios, maybe this investigatin is good. if Sony has colluded with the studios, it is for 1 reason only, to force us the consumer to pay more money!
Please, some one explain to me WHY IS BLU RAY BETTER???... I dont understand why any sane person would want to support it, I am no HD DVD fanboy, I just think its a way cheaper, great quality product.
The way I see it, we the consumers should all band together and boycott blu ray, it's going to cost us all a lot of extra money for nothing!
The other problem with the BD+ copy protection is that it allows studios to RUN CODE on the player's computer hardware. They -say- that it won't write flash or otherwise make permanent changes, but it would have the theoretical capability of disabling the player's ability to play some or all discs. Even a bug that did this would be a problem. It also means that downloaded content could contain viruses, at least in theory.
More to the point: If BD is "the future" why does Sony and the BDA spend so much effort getting studios to stay out of the HD DVD market? Seems more like an act of fear than confidence.
Reason: If all studios produced both formats, no one would buy bluray. Costs too much.
I will try to yet again beat this into your retarded fan boy heads,
yes that AGAIN MEANS YOU XYZZY.
BOTH HD_DVD and Blueray USE DRM. It is UNLAWFUL to rip EITHER format to a computer with out the express permission of the associated content copyright holders and standard manufacturers.
This mean it is not legal in ANY WAY to have a rip of a HD-DVD. This is NO BETTER than Blueray in to form or fashion can one format be seen as more "pro-consumer" than the other since BOTH make it UNLAWFUL to copy a movie.
Stop bringing out that argument that HD-DVD is better due to it's Drm. The only DRM that is good for the *consumer* is NONE!
Get it through your thick, thick skulls that ANY DRM is BAD as any other DRM. Including HD-DVD's.
"Get it through your thick, thick skulls that ANY DRM is BAD as any other DRM. Including HD-DVD's"
I never said that HD DVD DRM was "good." The question posed was simply, "Why do people not like DRM?" so I answered it without an HD DVD slant I might add...
But using your own statement, if DRM is bad, wouldn't you rather support a format that only has one layer of DRM, instead of two?
I agree with Joe, You HDDVD fans act like studios that don't support BD want you to be able to rip there movies. This is what MS wants(no physical media). A MONOPOLY is when ONE, just ONE company controls all the rights to a certain product. Such as what Toshiba is trying to do with HDDVD. Do you guys all understand that??
MS hasn't come under fire from the EU, twice, because they try and let LOTS of companies in on the profit.... In fact it was the exact opposite.
HDDVD fanatics want to believe that HDDVD is cheaper to produce. IF so where are all the HDDVD players? Everyone(even the ones who won’t admit it) knows that Tosh has cut prices so low that no one wants to make them. Which, BTW is Tosh trying to MONOPOLIZE the HIdef player market…... There's that word again. BD is a COMPANY supported by LOTS of CE companies. Not just one. BD is a COMPANY that is supported by LOTS of studios not just one. HDDVD is OWNED by Tosh, see the difference? If you don't get what I'm saying they you are in for a HUGE surprise when you find out that HDDVD is the one that will ultimately come under HUGE fire here.
Also, it was asked why BD supporters choose BD. For me it's simply; MS is one of the dirtiest companies in the world, once they backed HDDVD, I didn't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole. You all hate Sony, (who’s isn't the BDA, nor do they OWN BD for the 10 millionth time) that's how I feel about MS (not HDDVD).
wow you really are a godly idiot huh? did you even read what i said about the HD-DVD double sensity discs? look it up you retard almost all HD-DVDs are DD 30gigs and most of the blu-ray discs are single density 25 gigs. READ YOU MORON
oh no blu-ray has bigger bandwidth, then why is it i see reviews and hear people at local stores tell me that HD-DVD looks and sounds better? OR that there is no difference at all yeah great use of bandwidth and all that extra storage.
What kind of crack are you on? People don't want cheap players? Have you ever been to a store or worked retail? Do you have any clue what's even going on in the world of business? Why have sales if peopel don't want or care abotu cheap players, HAHA wow that was just as dumb as good ol' kenny Kutaragi or the idiot Jack Trenton which his saying " if you can find a PS3 on shelves for more then 5 mins i wil pay you $1200" haha. Also black friday is just another normal day at stores huh? I mean i want to spend more money because people don't want cheap stuff, hahaha.
That is the reason why VHS won you idiot because it was cheaper. Oh yeah when did DVD sales pick up? BECAUSE THE PLAYER BECAME CHEAP. MY GOD YOU ARE CLUELESS!!!
By the way HD-DVD upcomverts BETTER then blu-ray does and can upconvert movies on DVD like DISNEY FILMS AND FOX FILMS which movies peopel can't even tell the difference in the first place so yeah according to your example yes dear let's pay over twice as much for quality we can't even notice. GET A LIFE IDIOT!!
It's pointless arguing with a blu-ray idiot fan-baby who's mind is shut to anything not sony. They have you brain washed, plus sony quality has been shot for the past 10 years.
Anyways you wil see who will win and it won't be blu-ray and for the record i do not care or want digital download and they wil NEVER replace hard disks. Too many people are collectors and want the hard copy. If toshiba did sell the patents of HD-DVD and their other electronics which i highly doubt it would have been breaking news everywhere if true so for the sake of argument if true then the people who bought it see potential and might make it even better so there.
Yet despite all your numbers and listings of companies (by the way you need a life i mean wow go outside and do something and not spend it in front of PC arguing about shit that you have no control over and are wrong haha) HD-DVD is still holding it's ground even with small support, fewer movies, 10 times less units, inferior space and bandwidth, etc.. alot of people prefer HD-DVD and it still sells well considering so shut up and get a life i am out this is my last comment on this feel free to bitch and moan and cry all the way home and say what you want i am done messing with your godly stupidity.
Bye retard. GOOD RIDDENS. PLEASE DON'T reproduce until you grow a brain.
BYE BYE
Sony Defense Force Activate!
Form Dead Goat!
Form DRM!
Form SIXAXIS NO RUMBLE!
Form BLU-RAY MPEG2!
And Jack Tretton you form the HEAD!
READY TO BS! LET'S GO SONY DEFENSE FORCE!
The Digital Bits has a nice writeup on this based on an article in the Wall Street Journal:
The Wall Street Journal today has a story on how the European Union's European Commission is investigating the HD format war. Specifically, Microsoft and Toshiba have asked the EU to investigate the Blu-ray camp for anti-trust violations (a tactic they've tried unsuccessfully here in the U.S. in the past as well). Here's the relevant text from the story: "The HD DVD camp has been lobbying the commission to draw attention to Blu-ray's tactics in the movie capital in a bid to force more studios to put their product on HD DVD, according to people familiar with the situation." In other words, the HD-DVD camp can't seem to win this war based on consumer sales alone, even after slashing their hardware prices, so now they're trying other measures to try to force the many Blu-ray exclusive Hollywood studios to support their format too.
This is what you need to know: The Christmas shopping season this year is almost certainly going to make or break HD-DVD. The HD-DVD camp knows this as well as anyone. (We suspect that this is one of the reasons Warner has delayed their TotalHD combo plans until early next year - after the holidays to see how things play out.) The HD-DVD camp's media rhetoric seems to have shifted dramatically in recent months from how they're going to win to how they're going to survive. They must know that if software sales trends continue the way they have so far this year in favor of Blu-ray, many other retailers are going to follow Blockbuster in favoring that format alone. So the HD-DVD camp is doing everything they can just to stay in the game, from additional hardware price cuts, to announcements like "HD-DVD gets 1000 movies from Amazon" (except not really because they haven't been made yet and the deal - according to Amazon - is non-exclusive and open to Blu-ray as well) and on and on. But here is the reality: According to Tom Adams, president of Adams Media (from the WSJ story), 105,000 stand-alone Blu-ray players have sold to date compared to about 150,000 HD-DVD players. However, 1.5 million PlayStation 3s are in the hands of consumers (which can all play Blu-ray movies) compared to 160,000 who have purchased HD-DVD add-on drives for the Xbox 360. So the market right now is roughly 1.6 million Blu-ray capable machines compared to 310,000 HD-DVD machines. Even if only a small fraction of PS3 owners are watching movies (and given the 2 or 3 to 1 Blu-ray software sales edge despite the smaller number of stand-alone Blu-ray machines in the market, at least some MUST be), there's still no contest. Compounding the HD-DVD camp's problems, their stand-alone hardware sales forecasts are being downgraded even despite dramatic hardware price cuts, while Blu-ray stand-alone hardware prices are slowly but steadily dropping too. In other words, price is the only advantage the HD-DVD camp has left... and by this time next year that advantage is likely to largely evaporate. (Though we wouldn't be shocked to see Toshiba cut their player prices to $199 or even lower for the holidays in a last ditch attempt to move large numbers of units.)
What all this means to you, is that Blu-ray is rapidly becoming the clear choice. In our opinion, there's just no chance that HD-DVD is going to win this format war, and the HD-DVD camp's increasingly desperate moves now should make that obvious to all. With Blu-ray hardware prices dropping, and with Fox and MGM about to start adding their catalog titles to the BD exclusive title slate of Disney, Sony, Lionsgate and now Anchor Bay/Starz (not to mention all the great BD titles coming from Warner and Paramount), if you've been thinking about getting into high-def discs, now's a great time to jump in with Blu-ray. And if you'd rather wait a little longer for lower prices and greater hardware and software selection... there's still nothing wrong with existing DVD in the meantime. Regardless, we've said from the very beginning that this HD format war wasn't going to be good for anyone. But the writing seems to be on the wall at this point and, with a little luck, we'll see the last gasps of this skirmish play out by Christmas. At this rate, the CES convention in January 2008 is likely to be VERY interesting indeed.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#mytwocents
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118341745768555943.html
Hey Phoenixxx1974, nice that you have to resort to nothing but insults with no facts to back ANYTHING up. Fucking moron. I love the irony of you telling me to get a life and stay off the internet when you're doing the same thing yourself. HD-DVDIDIOT. I no longer have a need to throw out any more intelligent and undeniable facts to a numb skull like you, because it's obvious you would not be able to process the information. So long loser.
Actually Phoenixxx most Blu-ray disc releases this year have been on BD50 as it is not much more expensive than HD30 and is being produced in very large quantities.
It's not just the space, but the additional bandwidth it allows. Look how few HD DVD discs have lossless audio on them. Warner have been the best in that department.
Blu-ray exclusive studios have been delivering the audio goods since inception.
There's a chart somewhere looking at all the reviews from several sites that clearly shows Blu-ray has been the most consistent format this year in both PQ and SQ. I guess HD DVD could use those 51GB discs huh?
burketop,
Even if HD-DVD had the 51GB discs, that would still not address the limited bandwidth, only capacity, so it would pretty much be useless space. But you are correct, there have been far more BD50 releases than BD25 releases in 2007, and by far Blu-ray has been the leader in providing lossless and uncompressed audio from the beginning. These are facts that fly over HD-DVD supporters heads. To address another point that a certain someone on here made about HD-DVD players being better at upscaling, the Samsung P1200 uses the Reon. Enough said.
As for the silly 'everybody knows HD-DVD looks way better than Blu-ray anyway so bandwidth and capacity doesn't matter' argument, here are some real numbers (average review ratings) from various review sites:
HD DVD:
PQ/SQ/TOTAL Blu-ray: /PQ/SQ/TOTAL
HighDef/3.96/3.64/3.80 HighDef/3.99/3.83/3.91
HTSpot/3.99/3.86 /3.93 HTSpot/4.02/4.25/4.14
DVDTalk/3.66/3.51/3.58 DVDTalk/3.64 /3.68/3.66
HTForum/4.04/3.80/3.92 HTForum/4.28/4.10/4.19
UpDisc/4.03/3.83/3.93 UpDisc/4.05/4.14/4.10
Totals:
PQ: 3.90 SQ: 3.69 Total: 3.79 PQ: 3.93 SQ:3.95 Total:3.94
As you can see. Blu-ray wins. And these numbers even include the 'bad' titles from the Blu-ray launch of last year. In fact, there is even one site in there that puts HD-DVD ahead by the slightest of margins in picture quality .(special thanks to a member from another forum for all the leg work on this data).
hemmy,
Thanks for that article. Those numbers are similar to what I posted (obviously slightly updated now) previously, and therefore confirm what I said. It is these undeniable facts that HD-DVD people have difficulty swallowing. HD-DVD is now on life support and the holiday season will kill it with the upcoming summer blockbusters exclusive to Blu-ray, the prices falling on hardware, the wider selection of players, mandatory profile 1.1 coming Nov 1st, and the sales lead keeps widening edging closer to that 70/30 every day. The latest Nielsen/Videoscan numbers are in, and in a week that there were 4 BDs (2 exclusive 2 neutral) and 14 hd dvds (9 new exclusives, 2 excl rereleases, and 3 neutrals) BD vs HD DVD sales went from 70/30 to 65/35. Wooop-tee-doo. I guess that's what people consider 'holding their own' these days.