The NY Times is reporting that Paramount and Dreamworks were paid
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Aug 21st 2007 10:15AM
posted Aug 21st 2007 10:15AM
Contrary to what the BDA would have you believe, the format war is far from over, but the news yesterday without a doubt extended it -- but for how long? Well, according to the NY Times, the deal between the HD DVD camp and Paramount/Dreamworks for $150 Million in incentives is for 18 months. A lot can happen in 18 months, but one thing that won't is an end to either HD DVD or Blu-ray. We can't say we blame them for going exclusive, after all we doubt there is any way they could have made $150 Million by selling Blu-ray discs between now and February 2009. We don't know about anyone else but those dual format players are looking better and better everyday.
*waits for the HD-DVD fanboys to attack EngadgetHD.*
who cares? blu ray did the same thing just ask disney
@will
Uh...Disney is on the board of directors for the BDA. They weren't payed anything.
i would have just loved to saw the faces of all the blu ray execs when they made that annoucement.
i would like to see the faces of all the hd dvd execs when they will see that people buy even less HD discs because its even more uncertain which format will win
i would too but right not all blu ray execs gets the gas face. hey coplice do u know the release date for the godfather triolgy in hd what about scarface and if u get a chance check gladiator. i know your to busy reading your spiderman 3 specs for the blu ray release,but check that out when u get a chance, oh one more thing whats the release date for transformers for both formats dvd and hd dvd.
uh yes they were. directors of bda or not they were paid
"Uh...Disney is on the board of directors for the BDA. They weren't payed anything."
"Michael, Senators and Presidents don't have men killed."
"Now, who's being naive, Kay?"
(and, for the record, I'm a dual format owner, and neither of my players are video game consoles)
You get seats on the board just so you can make deals such as sony/disney.
Haha, knew it.
I can wait 18 months for Transformers and some non-Spielberg Paramount movies, but can HD-DVD people wait forever for Disney and Fox movies?
At least some HD DVD owners can rent HD versions of Disney movies through services like Xbox Live Marketplace.
If only they were in 1080P of course.
$150 million is just a smart gamble for the HD-DVD camp. If they succeed, they stand to make billions over the next decade, at least, from having the main format out there. If they were to do nothing right now, and BluRay knocked them out, that would be, probably, hundreds of millions wasted on developing and promoting the format to this point. $150 million is probably insignificant in the long run if it helps them win.
fox needs to push for star wars, fox owns the distro rights, lucas owns the merchandise rights. this would be a major push for blu ray. same with indiana jones.
Star Wars isn't a big deal for me. But whoever gets Indiana Jones, I'm excited :)
OMG. You mean to tell me there was MONEY behind Paramount's decision????
HOW CAN THIS BE??? HOW?????
First I find out there's no Santa Claus, and now this. I thought Hollywood studios did what they did because they loved MOVIES.
Took the words right out of my mouth.
Well of course they were paid. Their movies were selling at 2:1 or better on Blu-ray, and suddenly they decide to sell 66% less for "technology" reasons? Give me a break. Money was on the table, pure and simple.
"i would like to see the faces of all the hd dvd execs when they will see that people buy even less HD discs because its even more uncertain which format will win"
Actually I'll be buying more HD-DVD discs now. But hey, I understand I really do, if I payed $600 for the losing "game console" I'd want my HD movie format to win too.
I think it would be wiser if you'd use all that money your going to spend on HD-DVD's on something more useful like...a giant rock polisher.
"losing game console" no offense but that is some serious "fanboy"-talk. Even if bluray dies tomorrow, the ps3 as a platform won't be obsolete, its still a media streamer, game console, and eventually gateway to online content and services.... the format war and the console war may overlap but they are hardly as tightly coupled as you would suggest.
I honestly don't care which format wins, I just want it to be a fair fight, not some backroom deal consisting of nothing more than a bribe... I beleive the market should decide the winner.
HDDVD and Bluray both have advantages over the other.... but to the studios its nothing more than a business decision, they can care less which format wins... some would argue that Bluray supports more tight DRM....
Moreover both camps have done sleezy things to advance their format... the decision to put bluray in the PS3 was largely to give bluray traction in the marketplace.... and for the most part it has worked, I suspect this is a factor to bluray's outselling hddvd by 2 to 1.
Everyone comments that adoption of an hd format is slow, but this is largely the fault of this format war... a lot of people are choosing to not make a decision until this is all resolved.
In related news: Scientists discover water is wet, sky is blue.
World domination: Mr. Softy vs. Sony
I agree Jeff.
I wonder too how much of the passion/fanboyism surrounding the HD format war is fueled by that overlap of the console war and its respective fanboy base.
In the end I don't care which one wins either: I just want one to win.
"losing game console" no offense but that is some serious "fanboy"-talk.
If it's not losing then which next-gen console is it winning against? It's in 3rd place out of 3, please keep up.
I agree with you, and also not sure if you knew, but Fox's decision to go with Blu Ray was not because of Storage, the 50GB storage is a marketing gimick. The video streams encoded with the latest technology(VC-1 or AVC/MPEG4) are less then 20GB in size, and using TrueHD or DTS-HD(TrueHD is more widely available), special features, and menus, it all fits on a DL 30GB. It has to do with BD+. Fox is a firm believer in DRM. The stronger the DRM, thats where Fox goes. If HD-DVD released a new disc profile, and firmware update that installed a new unbreakable DRM, guess what? Fox will be all over that.
"'losing game console' no offense but that is some serious 'fanboy'-talk. "
Actually it's not. The PS3 only has a 16% worldwide marketshare of current-gen consoles. They *are* the losing game console.
If your going to report this story then you should at least follow up on any payments made by Sony/BDA group to secure the Target endcap, the Blockbuster deal, and all the others. This is a story that doesn't really amount to much otherwise and it just seems kinda of petty.
@Larry
I couldn't agree more. Even if this story proved to be true, it's not as if the BDA's hands are clean by any means of the word. They are far more suspect of foul play than HD DVD. More importantly, no one remembers the fact that both Paramount and Warner Bros. were originally HD DVD exclusive up until October 2005 when they were coaxed into being format neutral by the BDA. Paramount went first and Warner Bros. followed close behind 17 days later.
Why did they go neutral in the first place? People suspected a pay-off/buy-out and now that we find ourselves two years since the mysterious switch, Paramount is coming back home to HD DVD. It might be a coincidence, or maybe there was a deal, but either way, if there had been a contract binding them to format neutrality it has expired, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see Warner dropping their neutral status as well. The main question that remains, if they do choose to go exclusive which way will they swing? Judging from a number of high profile Warner titles (The Matrix, V for Vendetta, Batman Begins) that have yet to see a Blu-ray release, my bet is on HD DVD.
Then again, they seem pretty content to sit on the fence and reap the benefits of supporting both for the time being which really isn't helping anyone.
"I wonder too how much of the passion/fanboyism surrounding the HD format war is fueled by that overlap of the console war and its respective fanboy base."
Probably not too much. You see the same thing with just about any competing format. PC vs Mac & XM vs Sirius are two that come to mind. Everyone wants to be on the winning side, typically so that their investment (of time and/or money) pays off.
Matt,
I hav eno desire to decide which game console is "winning" or "losing" ... I was specifically talking about HDDVD vs Bluray....
But if you must know, I think nintendo is currently winning the battle... as for which of the big three will win the war; it is way too early to say... MSFT has the early lead simply because they have been out longer and have a more mature product.... frankly I think Sony is not out of the running, as the features go online (Sony Home) and new games come out and the platform matures, it is sure to give MSFT a run for the money...
I personally own both an xbox/360 and a ps3... I like the playstation more with respect to its user inteface and media streaming... DVD upscaling, and flexibility for letting me geek with it by installing a different operating system... the xbox had advantages because of the xbox live movie marketplace, xbox live arcade and more options for peripherals (the xbox wheel in particular).
As this thread is to discuss hidef DVD formats, I'll refrain from any further comm,entary on gaming consoles, nor will I share my super mario high score with you :)
--Jeff
by the way all u writers at enagadgethd how do u feel? all u write is blu ray this blu ray that tell us your thoughts
The Times "article" is funny. I wouldn't be surprised if they're just re-hashing the rumors that were posted on other sites. "Two anonymous sources," umm, yeah.
Now if the rest of their "facts" were correct, I might believe it. However, check out this gem:
"major retailers like Target are stocking only Blu-ray players, and Blockbuster recently said it would carry Blu-ray exclusively."
That's been proven completely incorrect -- Target was paid by Sony for an endcap, end of story. Blockbuster will still stock HD DVD online, and in roughly 600 of its stores. Blu-Ray will be in around 1800 of the stores (the numbers are rough, I don't feel like looking up the specifics right now). They have around 4,000 stores total, so that's hardly "exclusive BD support," even though that's the way it was initially reported.
It might be true, it might not be true, but regardless the facts in the article were being distorted, per usual.
@Jeff
"I honestly don't care which format wins, I just want it to be a fair fight, not some backroom deal consisting of nothing more than a bribe... I beleive the market should decide the winner."
IF there was money involved and that is a big if right now because the BDA claims there was (obviously) and Paramount claims there wasn't.
How is any different that what Sony and BDA has done so far? If you are claiming there is money on the Paramount and Dreamworks deal and you don't think there was money involved with Sony and BDA, you are just ignorant.
Would that then mean it finally is a fair fight?
This split between the two camps and everyone slinging mud back and forth is ridiculous! All of this should prove that a format war is not good for either side. Everyone seems to forget that when DVDs came out, that format pretty much had the marketplace to itself. Sure, there was Divx, briefly, but people had embraced DVD - A SINGLE FORMAT - and it took off. Prices came down on hardware and software pretty quickly, all without the "benefit" of a competing format to forcibly drive prices down. The American public wants a single format. They don't want to be pulled in two different directions, and they don't want to spend a few hundred dollars on a machine that may be obsolete in a very short time. Does no one remember the failure of the competing CD formats, DVD-Audio and SACD, not too long ago? The techies were the only people to latch on to either format which offered basically the same benefits - but the general public didn't want to be bothered with a format, decided their old CDs were just fine, and neither format succeeded. Eventually, digital downloads surpassed CD sales - and that's exactly what's going to happen with the HD video formats because Microsoft will continue to pay whoever it needs to keep the war going and eventually cause the downfall of both formats and open the digital pipeline for their Xbox Live HD digital downloads. If more people were actually aware of what was happening, they'd stop buying one format or the other and force the studios to either support both or come to an agreement on one format. It's obvious Blu-Ray was the dominant format with 2-to-1 sales in software, even with higher priced hardware, and paying Paramount and DreamWorks to abandon a format neutral stance is just another shady move by Microsoft to perpetuate the format war and bring digital downloads to the masses who will soon be rejecting both formats. I refuse to support either at this point. I like new technology as much as anyone, but I'm not going to waste my money supporting any format until it's clear what's going to happen. Oh, and Spielberg approved and supervised the CLOSE ENCOUNTERS Blu-Ray disk (so he DOES have a format exclusive release!), and Lucasfilm says it won't support any format until there is a clear winner, and if none is apparent soon they'll withhold all of their films (as they did for the longest time with DVD) and go directly to digital downloads - music, I'm sure, to Microsoft's ears. I bet they won't even bother to woo Fox for this reason alone! Remember, Lucasfilm is not just STAR WARS, but INDIANA JONES as well! The format war will benefit no one in the long run but Microsoft.
The moment the Euro regulators start fining the studios for single-format releases the war will be over and the cheaper player with the most features will win.
BD cost more to manufacture than HD-DVD. I know Sony/BD assoc is financing the extra cost for the large studios. That has to be in the millions of dollars. There were low yields in the beginning especially with the dual layer BD's, and upgrading a traditional DVD production line to BD is like 10X higher than upgrading to HD-DVD ($400,000 vs. $4m, something like that), so that would have been an obstacle in BD being adopted by studios in the first place. Eventually they will have to stop all these financing/money games. So it's a similar situation, the format backers giving kickbacks to the studios to use their format. There are these back door deals all the time. Not saying it's right, but it's out there and happening all the time.
I bought a Toshiba A2 mainly because it was an excellent upscaling DVD player, HD-DVD was a bonus, but I'm not really investing much into HD-DVD until one of these formats wins out, or dual-format players become the norm. I'd like to see on which format George Lucas releases Star Wars. That could be huge. But at this point I would not be surprised to see it on both, as this HD game is far from over.
"Oh, and Spielberg approved and supervised the CLOSE ENCOUNTERS Blu-Ray disk (so he DOES have a format exclusive release!),"
Close Encounters is a Sony property, that's why it's BD exclusive...
I'll buy a next gen DVD player when:
1. There's one clear format winner.
2. The DVD players are compatible with the format loser.
3. I can back up my DVD to a hard-drive so I can watch it on an iPhone/iPod/computer/etc.
4. Blank media and burners/players are widely available and priced fairly.
In other words... when I can do what I can do NOW with standard DVDs.
Actually, looking through all of the rips of Blu-ray discs on the internets right now, quite a few of them are greater than 30GB in size.
"Actually, looking through all of the rips of Blu-ray discs on the internets right now, quite a few of them are greater than 3GB in size."
http://blu-raystats.com
http://hddvdstats.com
You'll note that a majority of BD discs released to date are single-layer 25GB, while a vast majority >80% of HDDVDs released to date have been 30GB or 30GB combos.
Not to mention that BD discs have to waste space with MPEG2 and LPCM because advanced codecs like AVC/VC-1 or TrueHD lossless are either not mandatory (discs may not play in some installed dedicated players) or apparently too expensive to license.
@samrum
I can't speak for all of the Blu-ray releases, but my understanding is that they sometimes grossly exceed the 30gb mark due to their inclusion of LPCM audio tracks that are indeed lossless but manage to chew up disc space like no other. Dolby True HD and DTS HD:MA are the lossless alternatives that are offered across the formats, but they are exceptionally noteworthy due to the fact that they are compressed, but maintain, like LPCM, lossless bit-for-bit presentations of the master audio tracks.
So in a nut shell, LPCM is to a beer as True HD and DTS HD: MA tracks are to a shot. You're getting the same amount of alcohol, but just a hell of a lot less volume. If you need some reassurance just read some reviews online. There really is no discernible difference.
I hope that helps clear up the disc usage discrepancy.
*ALL* BD players MUST support MPEG-2, VC-1, and H.264 - same as HD DVD. The mandatory audio codecs differ, but not by much. Most newer BD releases have been H.264 or VC-1.
Hmmm This hasn't been posted....
Steven true "classics" are EXEMPT from the flip flop perfomed by Viacom.
His lesser movies...."War of the Worlds" for example will be HD-DVD only if there ever is a slated release date.
----------------------------------------------
Source:[highdefdigest.com]
Confirming mounting speculation, we've got exclusive word this morning that Steven Spielberg is indeed "a big supporter" of Blu-ray, and that yesterday's carve out in the Paramount/DreamWorks HD DVD announcement was designed to allow the legendary director to release future titles on Blu-ray.
With many of his early blockbusters distributed by Universal Pictures ('E.T.,' 'Jurassic Park' and 'Jaws,' among them), it was once assumed that the combination of Steven Spielberg's classic titles and Universal's exclusive HD DVD support would be one of format's biggest weapons against rival Blu-ray, but a series of developments have led many to speculate that perhaps Spielberg himself has other ideas.
The first hint of trouble for HD DVD came back in February when the HD DVD promo group issued a public apology to Spielberg after listing several of his titles in a "Coming Soon" list that was apparently never approved by the director.
Then, just last month came news that the very first Spielberg high-def title -- a 30th anniversary edition of 'Close Encounters of the Third Kind' -- would be released on Blu-ray, not HD DVD. (That release is due November 13, day and date with the standard-def DVD edition.)
Finally, yesterday's stunner of a Paramount/DreamWorks HD DVD exclusivity press release included a conspicuous one line carve-out, stating that Spielberg's DreamWorks films would be exempt from the terms of the HD DVD exclusivity arrangement, opening the door to the possible future release of more recent Spielberg blockbusters on Blu-ray.
So what's the deal? We put that question to the source for all things Spielberg -- his longtime spokesman and DreamWorks marketing exec Marvin Levy. Speaking exclusively with High-Def Digest, Levy confirmed Spielberg's active support of Blu-ray with the selection of 'Close Encounters' for his next-gen debut.
"It was important to Steven that if any of his films were to be released [first] on high-definition, that it would be a classic," said Levy. "Steven is big supporter of Blu-ray, and chose 'Close Encounters' to be the first of his films on either format."
Spielberg approved the new high-def transfer made for the film, and among the Blu-ray's supplements is a new introduction recorded by the director specifically for the release, as well as a storyboard comparison.
Levy further clarified the Paramount/DreamWorks press release, saying that "...his movies, like 'Saving Private Ryan' and 'War of the Worlds,' are not included in that deal. They are not exclusive to HD DVD, nor [are they] planned for that format at this time.'"
Levy went on emphasize that beyond 'Close Encounters,' Spielberg has no other films in the high-def pipeline on either format. "At this moment, there are no plans for something further [on either format]. Anything in the future will be decided on a title-by-title basis. There certainly won't be more titles in 2007."
Ummm....there is still a war between the formats?? Wal-Mart is only selling HD-DVD. There is supposed to be a sub $200 HDdvd player on the shelves by christmas. FORMAT WAR OVER.
@ wheelzr:
Now that you told me the format war is over I feel much better! Although, since HD-DVD & Blu-ray is a format generally ushered in by "early adopters"....(and being an early adopter myself), there's nothing I enjoy more than going to Walmart to buy a cheap, worthless $200 HD player for my $25,000 home theater set up. Please, I've never been to Walmart & if I wanted a crappy HD-DVD player, I would pick up the 360 add on player an connect it via a "USB" cable (USB...now that's next gen)! Thanks for your words of wisdom! See you in 18 months when Paramount runs back to Blu-ray.
This is an awesome article!
Go MS and Toshiba, go! Pay off anyone you need to. I don't care that you make all the blu ray kids wet their indestructible ps3's with their tears. I want to win and I'm glad they're paying people off. If we play this way, when sony is posting losses wquarter after quarter, it's only a matter of time before you're using your blu betamax discs as coasters.
Besides, Sony is used to technology failure for being stupid, greedy and oppressively proprietary.
Also everyone who likes blu ray is a total loser.
@eddie
..well at least I can use my Blu-ray disc as a coaster if I choose to. Try that with an HD-DVD & it's thin, whimpy coating will
be scratched & as worthless as your fan-boy post. Excuse me, while I pick up my drink from my copy of P.O.T.C... think I'll watch that tonight, because I know you won't be. Oh, by the way since Blu-ray outsells HD 2:1 there must be a lot of "losers" out there! (Including Spielberg, Michael Bay). Can't wait for Spiderman & Close Encounters.
eddie.
Explain to me how MS isnt being greedy.
@matt
kinda hard to say that sony is losing the battle. Sure they are in terms of sales right now. But you have to admit, the only clear victor is Nintendo (who i think will loose their novelty in another year or two), because they came out same time as PS3, and a year after the xbox 360, but they're kicking everyones ass in sales. The xbox360 has a year head start, and the ps3 is really catching up to it in terms of sales, which is astonishing considering it doesn't have any must have games out YET. Another thing that you have to keep in mind, a lot of people have made the argument that some of the xbox 36o sales have been from repeat customers, repeat in the sense they had a unit fail, and since they were out of the original warranty (before MS did the two extensions) they went out and bought another one. I've heard of quite a bit of people here on engadget who have done the same, and i can attest to that because my roomate bought 3 beacuse they kept failing. Food for thought.
@Xyxxy
you've proven to me before that you dont know what you're talking about. And you just keep on chugging along. Who give a shiet if target was paid by sony. Have you ever walked into a best buy before, or circuit city, or walmart, or frys, bed bath and beyond...home depot...just about any retail store out there SELLS their end caps space. Vendors pay for that space, so anytime you walk into sears and see a Dyson vacuum endcap, its not big bad corporate dyson...its RETAIL, its how it works. Thats why vendors have reps that go into their stores to make sure their stuff is set up properly and functioning, it better be..because they pay for that space. You're argument is moot.
@lucyfan62
i agree w/ you 100%. sony actually conceded a loss in the dvd standard. pioneer, philips and toshiba made their money, and they went to work almost immediately on a blue laser format, because they knew that high definition dvds were not too far out.
@hd dvd the greatest
engadget should ban you
@ eddie
you're great, i hate fanboys, i hate them so damn much. you saying that ms and toshiba should pay off whoever they need to, well you're basically saying that hd dvd doesn't have the fan base that it needs to get the job done, so they should use al capone racketeering tactics to pull off a victory. imagine this, if ALL studios we're format neutral. it'd be tough to say who'd be out on top, but just seeing what sales have been like on movies like superman, 300, the departed (where they are out on both formats) i think the scales might be tilted in favor of BDA.
@Xyxxy
Your argument about BDA paying people and MS paying people off is crap.
The short answer is this: It is ok for Sony to pay off companies (as is is ok for Toshiba to do the same), but is not OK for MS to be paying off companies.
Lemme explain, see if you can comprehend this: Sony was involved in creating Blu-ray and has a financial stake in it. Therefore, they are EXPECTED to do all they can to get this format out, which does involve making deals. Same with Toshiba, but its not Toshiba thats doing it, its MICROSOFT, a company that has absolutely no business being involved in the movie industry format war, because
a) They dont make movies
b) They dont make home theater equipment
and
c) they dont create physical media.
d) they were not in anyway involved in the creation of HD-DVD and have no financial stake in it.
Thats the difference.