Boy did we see this one coming. Fox just came out of
their hiatus and with their first two releases they opted to use Blu-ray's
optional DRM, BD+ -- which has been part of the spec, but this is the first time it's been used. The problem is that all the Blu-ray players aren't ready for BD+ yet, and without a firmware update you can't play the movies at all. You'd think the problem would only plauge 1st gen hardware, but the Samsung BD-P1000 was able to play the new discs just fine after a very long delay. The newer BD-P1200 didn't fair as well, but instead you see a scary red screen instructing you to install a firmware update that doesn't exist. We've contacted Samsung to see what the deal is and we'll let you know if we hear anything. We'd tell you to avoid titles with BD+ for now, but there's no way to know just from looking at the package, so just avoid just avoid these two Fox titles for now (The Day After Tomorrow and Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer).
**UPDATE** unconfirmed reports indicate that it's a BD-J issue rather than BD+. Either way, all the latest movies won't play in all the players, even with the latest firmware update.
posted Oct 3rd 2007 8:19PM
OR... Just upgrade the fw on your player and PRESTO, problem gone!
Didn't he JUST SAY -- "the firmware won't be out for another 2 weeks", can't you read? Are you just stupid?
No firmware updates available as of yet! Read it again
Wrong info!
Only The Day After Tomorrow uses BD+. The Fantastic 4: Rise of the Silver Surfer is a BD-J issue.
According to Samsung, the new firmware update to fix this will be out in 1-2 weeks.
Both movies work flawlessly on many BD players include the PS3.
Don't worry. You don't have to tell me to avoid those titles. The movies are bad enough without having to use an excuse not to buy them. And yes, I'm a BD supporter.
It's a good thing the Blu-Ray spec includes a network connection, so updating the firmware is simple!
Oh wait...
PS3 -- Plays both DAT and FF2 fine (requires the latest firmware v1.93)
Sony 300 -- Plays both DAT and FF2 fine
Sony S1 -- Plays FF2 fine, slow load
Panasonic -- Plays both DAT and FF2 fine, but with slow load times
Samsung BD-P1400 -- Plays both DAT and FF2 fine
Pioneer -- plays both fine
But...
Samsung BD-1000 -- plays the movie (both? one?), but frequent skips
Samsung BD-1200 -- claims to require updated firmware to play, or other related playback issues.
LG 100 -- Refuses to play (either?) movie, requiring a firmware update
Bwaaahahaaaaaaaa!!!!!!
I'm going to spare this blog my thoughts on the BD camp's poor decision-making because I'm certain plenty of others will happily fill that blank. Instead I will focus on the issue of DRM. This latest episode, of course, is an epitomical example of why the average consumer hates DRM. It's a technology which treats customers like thieves, and worse, customers suffer consequences unique to DRM. It would be very fair to state that the pirate landscape is roses when compared to the headache-laden burden DRM-ridden products engender.
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I KNEW IT!!!!! GET READY FOR ANOTHER ISSUE WHEN PROFILE 1.1 GOES MANDATORY AT THE END OF THIS MONTH! LOL!!! GOSH I HATE BD! CANT WAIT FOR THIS TO BLOW UP IN THERE FACES!!! By the way, I have BD and HD-DVD! Never had an issue similar to this one on HD-DVD, HDi has never given me this problem. Oh this is so funny because I like many of you so called this! lol
-dad
This is just one of many reason I will NEVER have anything to do with that DRM infested garbage. It's bad enough it was rushed out before it was even finished. I would rather keep using DVD because the garbage with Blu-Ray is NOT WORTH IT. Luckily there's a HD format that was Finished when it was released. A format that requires a Ethernet port on ALL HD DVD players for quick and easy updates among other things like Movie Updates. A format far more Pro Consumer, and not YOUR A OUTRIGHT PIRATE, here's a couple layers of DRM just for you. Not to mention BD-R Recording Restrictions that are worse then DVD. NO THANKS. Why people will put up this crap is beyond me. Again, it's JUST NOT WORTH IT. I would rather have BOTH FAIL then for Blu-Ray to win in the end.
But, But, But Blu-Ray has a higher bit rate.
"Why people will put up this crap is beyond me."
50+ Inch HDTV - $2500
Home Theater System - $2500
1080P BD Player - $650
Day After Tommarow BD - $30
Not being able to play a $30 legitimate copy of HD content on a $5650+ system - Priceless
For everything else there is piratebay.
I understand this is a fluke but you would think that with the format war hot and heavy, the BDA would force a test on ALL blue-ray players of this NEVER USED BEFORE BD+ to MAKE SURE it would work before releasing the content...
- Some sucker buying a Stand-Alone $650 player and NOT going with a $499 PS3 - Priceless
Who is responsible you ask? The BDA. Plain and simple, they need to enforce one standard and not multiple versions of a standard or people will buy something expecting to play it and WHAM.
Another reason why I choose HD DVD and will continue to do so.
once again, more proof that DRM is our friend.
Go Sony, Go Rootkits, Go BD+...Good Times 4 the BDA ;-)
This will get cracked in 4 days from now dont worry...
yay sony good job again.
In the immortal mocking of Nelson of The Simpsons fame:
Ha ha!
While I agree that new features need to be tested more throughly. Everyone has to agree it's much easier for Toshiba to test just their players than for Samsung, Sony, Pioneer and Panasonic to test all of there's.
It's easier to force 1 company to conform to a standard than multiple ones.
> It's easier to force 1 company to conform to a
> standard than multiple ones.
Not true -- if the companies followed the Blu-Ray STANDARD, it wouldn't be a problem. But they can't because that standard is always changing - it's a moving target at this point.
There are dozens (hundreds?) of different DVD players out there, but have you ever worried about a disk not playing on your DVD player? The ONLY issue I can remember is that some old players had a hard time with Matrix when it first came out. Other than that, things work as expected.
Yeah, and how appropriate is it that Sony's Blu-Ray version is in Beta?
BTW -- maybe this is why the Panasonic exec said that BD will win soon.... With "soon" meaning, "Whenever you can actually play the movies you've paid for." :D
BD+ and the watermarking Blu-ray are using are prime reasons why the buying public should steer well clear of Blu-ray.
This is only the start.
If Blu-ray 'wins' people ought to expect more of this kind of thing with all sorts of compatibility problems and irritating delays as firmwares and fixes are needed just because of the so-called 'security' features Blu-ray has tried to make a virtue of.
If BDA was actually smarter instead of just being smarter on paper, they would make the disk playable at 480p DPL2 with regular DRM and if the player can decode BD+ thne unlock the 1080p w/ lossless audio.
Dave
Yeah, noone would be unhappy if their Blu-rays only played at 480p.
Yeah, I guess you are COMPLETELY missing my point.
If Fox is going to implement BD+, it should not disable the disk. Since there is a 2 week wait for FW, at least let them watch the movie instead of the Red screen. Lesser of two evils.
Anyone know when Blu-ray is coming out of beta? Maybe Sony will give all the early adopters a free rootkit for their trouble.
And to think that the DVD Forum passed on blu-ray 3 years ago, saying the spec was half-baked. What WERE they thinking?
I wonder what's wrong with their QA department...It's not that they are like 500 different models of BR players...
Ok, what the heck is a BD-J? Sounds dirty...Too many similar acronyms will just confuse 95% of Americans and make them sit out this stupid HD war.
Vic - I am definitely staying on the sidelines until BD-K or maybe even BD-L comes out.
Ben, i love the first sentence! Yup, we did see that one coming, miles away man! That's why people should stay away from Boo-Ray!!
@Andrew
Unfortunately, I think the consumers are going to have to find out the hard way.
With a number of profile updates still on the way, and a lack of mandatory hardware/software features, Blu-ray is most definitely half baked, and it's no one's fault but their own that the consumers are going to get screwed in the process.
If these problems persist, and more titles/players suffer from similar setbacks, you can bet that the average consumer will get wind of the news and steer clear of Blu-ray.
All I can say is that for Blu-ray's sake, their Spiderman release had better go off without a hitch, or it might be the beginning of the end for Blu-ray movies.
The Blu-ray peoples don't have their sh!t together, how are they going to release a title without extensively testing it? Simply retarded.
Still glad i have my $170 XB360 HD-DVD player, which has played every movie I have ever purchased for it, flawlessly.
another interesting story I came across today: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/High-Def_Disc_Rentals/Netflix/Report:_Netflix_Users_Favor_HD_DVD/1036
maybe even wait for BD-Z!
And I wonder why Consumers are confused about HD. And Mr A/V installer selling products that are a DEFINITE MAYBE as to if they will work. Its time for the CE Industry to take control of their products and tell Content manufacturers how to protect content thru hardware-( we don't tell them how to make movies) We stick with what we know CE/hardware, Hollywood/movies. So we can move on and out of this mess.
Ok, show of hands. How many people were actually stupid enough to buy a BD player and not go with the cheaper and more flexible PS3.
At least if Blue-Ray looses the battle, we would still have a PS3 and not the equivalent of a Beta Max.
- Roger
I paid $1000 for my BD-P1000, but it was only cause I didn't want to wait for the PS3 to come out.
The ps3 is by far the ugliest piece of home cinema kit ever designed, like a cross between a george foreman grill and darth vader's helmet. I wouldn't be suprised if that didn't put quite a few people off buying it.
@Ben
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Got a PS3 for Blu Ray. Sonys plan worked.
But it sits and collects dust. What a waste right. HD-DVD player runs all the time.
-dad
How much do you want for the PS3. I will buy at a good price from you.
". . . a number of people are reporting problems with 20th Century Fox's new Blu-ray releases, The Day After Tomorrow and Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer. What we're hearing from our sources is that the problem is related to compatibility issues with the new BD-Java features on the discs, not to BD+ (as is rumored online). The discs are working fine on players from Pioneer, Sony (including the PS3), Panasonic and others, but it's having playback issues on some models from Korean manufacturers Samsung, Philips and LG. The studio tells us, however, that these issues are easily addressable with simple firmware updates. So if you're experiencing a problem, contact your manufacturer to request a firmware update disc or visit their support page online to download the latest firmware (click on the links provided). If an update isn't yet available for your model of player to address this issue, make sure they know you need one."
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/
*yawn*
This is not big deal, period. First of all, Blu-ray is not 'constantly changing' and people who say that sound like complete idiots. There have been clear step changes to the spec and they're backwards compatible. It is NOT the spec. If you think it is, you're an idiot.
People also seem to forget that DVD, which was a single spec, had this kind of issue early on. There were titles that worked on some players and not others. Lots of glitches. Stuttering playback. The works. Even if you have one standard, you have many implementations. Look at WiFi - even with certification and testing, there are still conflicts between products from time to time.
These issues get ironed out over time as ambiguities in the spec language get clarified, test suites are improved to catch these cases, etc. It just isn't a big deal.
The HD DVD camp might gloat now - but ironically HD DVD has been fortunate because it has weak vendor support. It is largely a mono-culture. Toshiba is the dominant player and nearly *all* standalone players in use are Toshiba. Next is Microsoft - and they worked hand-in-hand with Toshiba on their software. They share an implementation, so it may as well be the same vendor.
If HD DVD ever takes off and you start having 3rd party vendors, those heralded cheap Chinese players, etc - expect some problems. HD DVD would have the same issues as every other damn technology with multiple implementations in the early stages.
Be careful about slamming the BDA too hard for this - if HD DVD ever catches on, you may have to eat your words.
its a samsung issue not a BDA issue. Of course all those combos and hddvd play flawlessly, i cant think that there have ever been any updates needed to make the tosh units work with new software...
Strange how these titles play on Japanese Blu Ray players but not the rest (LG, Samsung, Philips). I guess they are lesser members of the BDA club and don't get access to beta software as soon as the big Japanese companies.
I have had zero issues with HD-DVDs. Sorry. These are people who payed 30$ for a disc and cannot play them. They have every right to be angry and post about it. I said half a year ago that this situation was going to occur because of how BD+ works and it happened. Alot of people including myself argued that Fox was holding out on titles back in April with there last release because they were waiting for BD+ to become finalized. Everyone knows BD+ was rushed to market because of the need for it. Bottom line is, people like me who are unsatisfied with BD are complaining, deal with it. If you have an argument about what makes BD superior to HD-DVD, then post it. This is why we have posts. I for one have not had any issues with the HD-A2. I keep the software up to date, I take care of my discs. Same goes for my *Dusty* PS3. But! My frustration takes into consideration, everyone! So everyone who cannot afford a BD player are left out, everyone who likes the interactivty layer which is also the menu bar and any other UI, are left out when studios only release on 1 format. I feel for the people who have BD players and wont get Transformers or any other Paramount/Dreamworks movies. The same should go for any other person that has BD, they should know that any person that only has an HD-DVD player wont get any Fox titles.
But I have never been a huge fan of DRM. Its not for the consumer (If you as a consumer think otherwise, Im sorry to hear that). This is a prime example of why alot of people wont go for BD. Anything anyone says here is a direct reflection of what the BD format offers, period. And those saying that any 3rd party player from other manufactures would have the same issues, im sorry, but you are wrong. The players wouldnt be perfect, but it wouldnt be failing playback due to DRM. This is a DRM issue and its pissing legit customers off.
-dad
This Video Business article by Susanne Ault clarifies a lot about the limited problem:
OCT. 4 | 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment is aware of consumers experiencing playback problems on Oct. 2 Blu-ray Disc release The Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer, but the studio believes the issues are confined to a limited number of players.
According to postings on home theater enthusiast sites such as www.avsforum.com, complaints are arising from people running the disc on Samsung’s second-generation BD-P1200 model and LG’s first-generation dual-format BH100 player.
It’s unclear what specifically is tripping up the players, Fantastic Four does boast some of Fox’s most advanced technology yet, including BD-Java-powered extras and BD+ copy protection.
Steve Feldstein, Fox senior VP of marketing communications, points out that overall reviews have been favorable for Fantastic Four. He advises consumers having difficulties to contact manufacturer support lines directly.
“We are releasing more and more advanced interactive titles, and consumers should lobby their hardware manufacturers to release firmware upgrades post haste,” said Feldstein. “The title was well-reviewed and playing well on updated players.”
Samsung “should have something up soon,” according to a support line staffer, who said he had received some complaints from those viewing Fantastic Four on the P1200.
The LG dual-format player is already considered weakened by the fact that it can’t fully playback HDi, the interactivity technology for the HD DVD format.