HD DVD standalone players sales are back on top
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Oct 10th 2007 10:53AM
posted Oct 10th 2007 10:53AM
HD DVD has been on a run lately in both hardware and software sales. After they got off to a early start, they were eventually passed by Blu-ray. Now the momentum is shifting back thanks to a few key factors including; there was the big Paramount deal combined with a few hot exclusive titles, -- like Knocked Up -- and now their players are back on top thanks to the fact that they were the first to bring 3rd generation hardware to market. To be honest, we were surprised to see Blu-ray standalone players on top at all, 'cause we figured the price was driving most people to PS3s. But, with the 3rd gen HD DVD hardware announced a little early, combined with a depleted stock of A2s at most retailers, it gave Blu-ray the chance to sit on top for a little while. The other factor currently in play are Blu-ray Profile 1.1, which is due out at the end of this month. This combined with a bunch of new Blu-ray players announced at CEDIA almost certainly has a lot of Blu-ray supporters holding off. Of course we are looking forward to the real telling factors at this year's CES where we expect both camps to tout their holiday dominance.
Cant wait to see how this holiday plays out and cant wait to see what issues come up due to BD+ and Profile 1.1.
-dad
Sean: cant wait to see what they "Investigate" on TL51. be prepared.
Shouldn't the picture show the HD DVD logo on top? :)
Most people buy HD DVD since they think its DVD and they know nothing about HD formats and never heard of Blu-ray.
Amazon and other places are full from people asking why the DVD is not playing in their players and they are forced to get the Toshiba.
You're using some reckless (and incorrect) hyperbole here. "Amazon is FULL of..."? "MOST people buy HD DVD because they think it's DVD..."?
Amazon warns on every product listing that you must have an HD DVD player to play a disc. It's no different than people trying to play a DVD on a CD player. If a customer ignores that warning, it's their fault.
If anything, people DON'T buy HD DVD because they think what they have already is HD, and wonder why they should pay $250.00 for a "DVD player" they can get at Wal-mart for $40.00.
No average consumer is buying HD DVD or Blu-ray at this point anyway.
BS, why would they make them buy a friggin player. most HD DVD's are two sided with the regular DVD an the opposite side
MOST people buy Blu-Ray because they think they're buying alien ray-gun technology. Then they buy a player and become disappointed when they find they can't vaporize anyone with it.
@Dave
Your ignorance on the subject is staggering
Just yesterday a co-worker asked me abot HD DVD. He thought the player upconverted standard DVDs to HD (which it does), but didn't realize he had to buy high-defintion DVDs to get true HD content. He also wasn't aware of the format war, but was aware of Blu-ray Disc.
TrentD:
I've seen this topic come up before and as noticable as it seems when there is confusion to the consumer (check reader reviews) I don't think it's a huge marginal human error to be recorded.
Even though Amazon puts out the warning, remember the non-savvy consumers are inclined to want HD, they figure they got the HDTV, an upscaling DVD player, and since 3/5th's the acroynm is covered, they buy them without thinking. It's kind of funny in a way.
What I'm getting at is, you can't rule this out, it still happens regardless of all warning signs, but I dont think it's that big of a deal.
I've seen the comments before (Planet Earth is one good example). However, if somebody puts biodiesel in their unleaded-only car, I don't think it's Biodiesel's fault for not educating that consumer.
However, those mistakes show that the average consumer has no idea that HD DVD or Blu-ray exists.
Honestly it doesn't matter. When it comes down to it, it is all about software sales. Blu-ray has had dominance in this since the beginning of the year and continues to kill hd dvd in that front. With the lineup blu-ray has at the end of this year, I have no idea how hd dvd will last. yes they have transformers and bourne but what other exclusives do they have that will make a splash or hit on the software sales?
Jack, actually, the sales numbers aren't as important as manufacturing costs at this stage in the format war. In that regard, insiders claim HD DVD has the clear advantage. Furthermore, last week's Nielson numbers for software sales were very close (54:46)--despite the Trojan horse that is the PS3. Also, Blu-Ray's specification isn't complete. Wake me when there's a guaranteed profile 2.0 compatible Blu-Ray player for $250--and maybe I'll consider going dual-format.
Remember, they are going to have Shrek the Third, one that I figured you would like since there is a ogre in it, ogre and trolls are pretty much the same thing, right?
Anyways... how do you figure BR is killing HD-DVD, have you bothered to look at the sales figures for the past few weeks? 54 to 46, it is pretty close and I highly doubt we will be seeing the 2:1 and more ratio anymore. BR had it's moment in the sun, but since the Paramount and Dreamworks move, the playing field has been equalized more.
Both formats look to have a relatively strong year end release lists for new formats, but to dismiss HD-DVDs releases throughout the end of year is near sighted on your part. However, that probably has to do with you being a BR zealot and a troll.
You need to face it, HD-DVD is hear to stay. It is going to last, it is not a dying format, or whatever other FUD you are trying to spread.
If Sony/Samsung drops their players that $100 bucks to the $399 point to match the HD-A30, it would change things. The HD-DVD sells on price. Customers don't ask what movies are available, they just want to see 1080p with their new TV. Wouldn't hurt if they would step it up and give 2 free movies with purchase in the box. As far as I know only Best Buy gives 2 free currently with Blu Ray players. Both camps still have the 5 free mail in ones, but they make you wait forever to send them. Most complaints on the free movies come from slow times on the HD-DVD camp. Pioneers will still sell to people wanting quality and features. And well Panasonic should either give up or finally send enough product for a store to fill a shelf with, the five free movies in box would make that model sell, combined with the fact they like to make units compatible with most everything. It also is built quite possibly the best. I am amazed at the use it can handle.
EricDJ: blu-ray extended the 5 movie offer as well as HD-DVD
I think the story here has been missed. The story is not that one or the other has taken the lead but that the numbers are very, very, very close. So close in fact that Blu-ray was able to take the Year-to-Date lead in less than a month. Then HD DVD was able to take it back in less than a month. Blu-ray went from being behind to being ahead in August. HD DVD went from being behind to being ahead in September. We have the YTD sales fluctuating by about 5% from one month to the next. This points out two things:
1. The stand-alone dominance that HD DVD once had is gone. I remember seeing numbers earlier this year of over 70% for HD DVD. Now that number is 53%.
2. The unit volume of sales for both Blu-ray and HD DVD must be very small. I would really like to know how many units of each have been sold. The last number I heard was several months back and that was 300k units for HD DVD. This included all stand-alone players and the 360 add-on. So the YTD sales of Blu-ray and HD DVD combined is what, one million maybe? (530,000 HD; 440,000 Blu; 30,000 Combo)
I know they both go on. HD-DVD even changed their movies too. The a30's include 2 more in the box. Only way to combat that I have seen is to buy from Best Buy to get 2 free Blu Rays extra right now too. Blu ray needs to get a 1080p to 399 and have the 2 extra movies avail everywhere. Then it'll really make a push. Only Panasonic Blu-rays have 5 in the box, but the price is higher, and its never in stock in quantity anywhere like Sony and Sammie players are. Pio was giving 2, but that isn't near the magic price point.
Another major hurdle both players face is upgrading firmware. How many non-techie folks would actually take the time to upload the newest version? It took how long for the DVD player to take off, now you're weighing people down becuase they might know how to upgrade their player?
Shessh....
I agree with Mike. How many consumers who do have HDTVs also have broadband connections? Look at the stats on how America lags behind the rest of the Western world on broadband adoption.
The retailers need to have upgrade firmware copies available on both formats for their consumers, or perhaps the HD DVD Group and the BDA need to consider offering firmware updates on the movie title discs themselves just like how Microsoft used to force Xbox updates via certain titles ("Star Wars Battlefront" being one that I remember clearly).
Or...hardware manufacturer kiosks that provide the updates on burnt CD, DVD, or flash. Can HD DVD players upgrade their firmware via these external formats - like the PS3 - or is it strictly through the ethernet port?
I *still* think blu-ray is missing out big by not offering a cheaper 720/1080i player. This would be perfect for a vast majority of HDTVs in existence today.
My main reason for going HD-DVD....my SONY (go figure) HDTV is a 720p set, and there's no point paying that much more in the early adopter phase.
When I buy a 1080p in a few years, I'll by a 1080p player...and it will no doubt be less expensive than the $250 I forked over for my HD-D2
Just bought an A30 at Best Buy, get the 5 mail in movies, the two included in the box (300 and Bourne Identity) and then to my surprise the Best Buy rep tells me to grab any two off the shelf for free.
9 free HD movies for $380 not bad at all.
just wanted to raise my hand for a bit, HD-DVD ppl keep using the defense "we have our format specified, blu is still buggy". I do feel that just because it's specified doesn't mean it's perfect, and there's still room for improvement (on both parties). If anything, I felt that HD-DVD "specified" rather too quickly, and any bug that comes up thru blu-ray get's blown out of proportion. When someone says "i can't wait to see what other bugs are going to arise from BD+" my only response to that level is "i can't wait to what they 'investigate' about TL51 when it's approved". It's all speculation from here on out.
First off Zargon Paramount and Dreamworks did'nt move to HD-DVD Microsft paid them 150 Million Dollars, why you ask because they are desperate to win because Microsft knows that Blu-Ray is a threat to their dominance of the HD Disc formats.
Microsoft didn't pay them anything--Toshiba did. But it wasn't cash--it was in cross-promotional deals. Paramount was already dissatisfied with the cost of production and limited interactivity for Blu-Ray. So, it wasn't a difficult decision for them.
@Plaguespitter12
What ever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night.
There is no real proof, just BR FUD, that proves Paramount and Dreamworks were bribed (I think that is the word you fanboys are using these days) to make the switch. In fact, Toshiba and company came out and cleared the air on this subject matter. This $150 million figure comes from promotions that will be ran to, you guessed it, promote the HD-DVDs. Money ("bribes") did not change hands.
BR fanboys just have to face the music and realize that Paramount and Dreamworks are gone, they decided to go HD-DVD exclusive, get over it and move on. There is no amount of bitching, whining, crying and FUD spreading you can do now to change that fact.
However, since you just had to bring up the subject, shall we talk about BDA's dirty deeds? I do find it funny that all BR exclusive studios skirted the question about being paid off (bribes) for them to go exclusive with Disney very defensively saying, "No comment." Why not just say no? What do they have to hide? Granted this is just speculation as of right now, but it really does seem fishy. Then there are the stores that BDA has paid off, like Wal-mart and Target to name a few. Now, this is not just speculation, they have left a paper trail with this one.
I am sure this is just the tip of the iceberg, on top of all of BDA and Sony's huffing and puffing with comments like, "the format war is over" or "HD-DVD is dead" that they started making before they even had a product on the market.
The fact remains, BR had its moment in the spot light, I hope it enjoyed it while it lasted. With HD-DVD hardware sales over taking BR again and with media sales getting close to equaling out. The last leg of 2007 is going to be a full on sprint for both formats. HD-DVD has been doing a out standing job of building up steam and I am pretty sure they will keep that going. BR better have left enough gas in the tank to hold on and not let their position slip anymore. I have no illusions that neither format will be going away any time soon, but I am wondering if BR has really prepared themselves to weather a storm.
I also would BR would get their act together and get a finalized spec out. None of this spec 1.1 to only later knowingly release yet another revision. That and get their player prices down. I would like to go neutral, I hate that I am missing out on a lot of movies in HD. But I simply just cannot justify the move right now with the prices where they are and the non-finalized spec.
Wow, the blu ray trolls are out in force today, spouting their usual mis information lies and deception, and general FUD!
Umm, I don't want all you really smart, honest and ever accurate hddvd fanboys to call me a troll or anything, but you may have noticed that the article starts with "Toshiba says..." I know Sony (and the several other companies that make blu-ray) are a bunch of poopy heads and all, but you should treat this with the same grain of salt you treated their comments when they report how well BD is doing.
"Dave @ Oct 10th 2007 1:03PM
MOST people buy Blu-Ray because they think they're buying alien ray-gun technology. Then they buy a player and become disappointed when they find they can't vaporize anyone with it."
This had me pissing my pants! To truly appreciate this comment, you must read the comment made earlier about why most people buy HD DVD. CLASSIC!!!!!
Like the article said a few weeks ago, this war is blu-rays to lose. They have the studio support and the manufacturer support. All they have to do is flood the market with quality releases and lower the price of their players.
Sure, they have their setbacks, mainly discs not working if the firmware isn't up to date is some players but they could still pull it off.
If they wait too long HD-DVD is going to gain a lead and Sony may lose more movie studio support which will further add to the pendulum.
I have both players and generally only buy kids movies for my daughter on DVD only so honestly I couldn't care less who wins.
Like the article said a few weeks ago, this war is blu-rays to lose. They have the studio support and the manufacturer support. All they have to do is flood the market with quality releases and lower the price of their players.
Sure, they have their setbacks, mainly discs not working if the firmware isn't up to date is some players but they could still pull it off.
If they wait too long HD-DVD is going to gain a lead and Sony may lose more movie studio support which will further add to the pendulum.
I have both players and generally only buy kids movies for my daughter on DVD only so honestly I couldn't care less who wins.