Transformers HD DVD review roundup
By Richard Lawler 
posted October 15th 2007 2:48PM
posted October 15th 2007 2:48PM
Transformers was one of this year's biggest blockbusters at the theater, and now its one of HD DVD's biggest weapons in the format war. With exclusive features and online connectivity, the HD DVD camp expects this disc to show why Paramount chose them, and consumers will too. The biggest part of any HD release is the picture quality, and all the reviews we've found have high praise for the 1080p MPEG-4 AVC transfer. While HighDefDigest noticed some jaggies during horizontal pans, there were no other faults to be found, impressive considering the high speed action in the film. An unfortunate casualty of all the extras on this two disc set was a high-res audio track -- a strike against HD DVD's 30GB capacity -- although the Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround mix that is present got the all-important "reference material" nod from several outlets. Paramount's much-ballyhooed special features include the opportunity to check out the CGI models in HD, all of the DVD extras in HD, and online options to download special widgets that play along with the movie or check out continually updated IMDB-style guides about the movie and its makers. Perfect its not, but reviewers seem to agree, this is a huge step forward for the format...will it be enough to keep Michael Bay happy?Read - DVD Talk
Read - Home Theater Forum Review
Read - High-Def Digest
Resistance Fall of Man again. That game only got "good" reviews. Compare it to Bioshock or Gears of War or Halo 3--games which received "great" reviews. I mean, how long before another game comes around that PS3 fanboys can talk about? Look, I hadn't even decided which console to get until recently. I picked the 360 because I like games. If you like movies, and you're not worried that the PS3 might not be Profile 1.1 and 2.0 compatible (and there's no guarantee it will be), then you should go with that.
zargon:
Skimming through your long post, I can't help to jump to "Let's face the facts", and quickly reply that, IT IS NOT FACT, rather subjective and you and I are entitled to our opinion.
The people who are SOL (in my theory) are the people who are missing out on PiP (upcoming), but for those who don't give a rats, and just want the movie, they aren't getting screwed. I made the decision to buy a PS3 for multiple reason. blu-ray is great for movies....... AND GAMES. Yes there are few titles out there, but the titles I do own, aree very enjoyable.
I say "incomplete" in the context to those who support HD-DVD because thats what they understand, but in my vision, blu-ray is evolving, and their avenue of choice was the movie, not the supplements/interactivity. Movie and sound, that's all i care about.
Scroll up, and see the post richard commented. It speaks for itself, and my decision is based on the library out there by sony and those are neutral. Also, do a query on amazon.highdefdigest.com I did a query Top 100, Avg rank for blu-ray, 576, avg rank for hd-dvd... 3,600. Transformers owns the top spot right now, but in perspective, the top 23 of 25 top selling movies are blu-ray.
And not say hd-dvd or even blu-rar are perfect, but the points i made above are the reasons why i chose this format.
And here's my perspective, which is entirely subjective, not fact as you are quickly misusing that word
HD-DVD = current gen
Blu-ray = next gen
TL51.. is that confirmed to work on all existing players? or are they still "Investigating" ?
That exclusivity list of his doesn't factor in movies like Batman or the Matrix trilogy--movies which are not "exclusives"--but which have yet to be released for Blu-Ray. Also, it doesn't factor in series like Heroes or Battlestar Galactica--which will only be available on HD-DVD.
Hahahahaha, Hd Dvd=current gen, Blu ray=next gen, how pathetic.
Blu ray is next gen, that doesn't meet current gen specs, that makes it worse then last gen.
Dave:
those are great 360 games, but when it comes down to is personal choice, and i'm happy with the choices i've made and the games that have great replay value i own.
Did you not read the news? PS3 is already working on a 1.1 profile complaint firmware update, there's no what if factor there.
I chose PS3 because of movies and games. With select titles out right now, I'm excited to see the upcoming games this year, and def. next year, and when that runs out, i go back to movies. 360 has great games, but i'm sticking with Sony for now (gaming)
i think i forgot to mention that the games of PS3 are using blu-ray (goes with what i said above). Another advantage to gaming.
Dave:
it doesnt factor in those, but check the amazon sales query. Heroes is doing good (i believe in top50) for hd-dvd.
I did read the news. Did you? It's supposed to be "enhanced interactivity". Does that mean Profile 1.1 compliant? Maybe. Maybe not. When I say it hasn't been confirmed, it's because it hasn't.
I love reading the theories, arguments & virtual fights over the Hi Def format war its all very humorous to me because 1) Im in the home entertainment industry and actually know first hand what the real facts are, 2) the main focus of the arguments on both sides are often immaterial 3) I simply cannot believe people get sooo exasperated over this stuff.
1) Ive witnessed this war first hand for over two years and let me tell you, all you need to do is look at the VHS vs. Beta format face-off to get your answer on how this one will pan out. Beta was better, period. It was more expensive and was marketed as the higher end version. What everyone fails to recognize is that it is the masses that will decide the outcome and the masses cant afford $1000 players. This holiday season will give a better barometer for how this war will progress next year when HD DVD players are on the market for $299 & possibly even $199.
2) What doesnt matter is the capacity on the discs (Spiderman 3 is out on 2 Blu-ray discs just as Transformers is out on 2 HD DVDs), the quality is identical on both formats, and PS3s arent bought to watch Blu-ray movies. Ill illustrate this further with a little ratio for all of you PS3 Blu-ray fans. Blu-ray supporters like to say that they are outselling HD DVD movies 2 to 1, 3 to 1 or even 4 to 1, but guess what, the ratio of Blu-ray players (including PS3s) to HD DVD players out there is 8 to 1. That doesnt quite match up. Thats because PS3s arent a stand-alone player. They are bought as a game system that has the ability to play other media. Also, you have to understand that from a business standpoint, HD DVD will most certainly win because both the development costs and replication/manufacturing costs are much less than Blu-ray. An existing DVD manufacturing line can be converted to HD DVD in a short amount of time for a minimal cost while the amount of money needed to set up a Blu-ray production line from scratch is much more expensive. Youre basically looking at two formats that are very similar in what they deliver, but one is based on an existing technology with minimal R&D overhead (for both the media & players) while the other is completely new and has an astronomical R&D overhead associated with it. Does anyone know that Sony loses between $200 & $300 on each PS3 they sell? Thats per unit, seriously. Sony and the Blu-ray supporting studios are very defensive and staunchly anti-HD DVD because they have sunk SOOO much money into their format that if they lose, theyre SCREWED! They will fight it till the end when they are forced to adapt, but that probably wont be for another 2 years at the earliest, because
3) Regardless of which format is selling the most, its basically nothing compared with the still flourishing DVD market. BILLIONS of DVDs are sold each year while HD DVD & Blu-ray combined have barely sold 4.5 million units to date. Its not even a drop in the bucket.
Anyway, while my post may seem VERY HD DVD biased, Im really just trying to lay out the facts for all of you. Until about 4 months ago, I was actually very much a fan of Blu-ray, although I would not have been able to tell you why. Now that Im much more knowledgeable with regards to key factors that actually hold weight in the arguments, Id have to lean to the side of HD DVD. But, with all that said, I still dont own a player of either format and Im content to wait and see what happens.
(|)
Correct me if I'm wrong...
In the Beta vs VHS war wasn't a major factor the porn industry. They went with VHS and that was huge.
The porn industry is on with HD DVD now right? It has to mean something.
Just my 2 cents....
Count me in as a PS3 owner that is mainly using it as a Blu-ray player.
I chose Blu-ray because I wanted the best tech possible and with the widest possibly industry support. Blu-ray's bit rate transfer crushes HD DVD and it is a shame that only Sony and Disney/Buena Vista are really pushing that to the max with high bit rate AVC encoded films while Warner Home Video continues to artificially handicap their Blu-ray releases by using the same low bit rate VC-1 transfers that they use on HD DVD. Say what you will about Blu-ray as a format evolving/not being complete, but HD DVD's transfer rate and disc capacity is already a handicap.
But I am happy that the HD DVD owners did get a break with *Transformers*. At least Paramount saw the wisdom in encoding it with AVC instead of Microsoft's VC-1. Enjoy.
Perhaps in 18 months, we'll see the same flick released on Blu-ray, with an even higher bit rate AVC encoding, uncompressed audio, and Blu-ray 1.1/2.0 Profile interactivity.
"Perhaps in 18 months, we'll see the same flick released on Blu-ray, with an even higher bit rate AVC encoding, uncompressed audio, and Blu-ray 1.1/2.0 Profile interactivity."
Keep living in the future. Blu-Ray's present is depressing.
Perhaps in 18 months blu ray will have abandoned the industry, massive losses coupled with very low HD adoption means the disintegration of the BR family.
To much investment for to little return.
I WILL BUY THIS MOVIE ONLY ON BLU RAY.
I AM NOT GOING TO BUY IN HD DVD.I DON'T LIKE THE PICTURE QUALITY OF XBOX 360 HD DVD DRIVE.
40-BLU RAY
01-HD DVD
You don't like the picture quality on the 360 drive? You do realize it's a digital image that is exactly represented by 0s and 1s. It is interpreted exactly by the 360 drive as it would be by any other HD-DVD drive that does not do additional image enhancement. And, if you want additional image enhancement on a 1080p image, there's something wrong with you.
Somehow I think we'll live without you.
J Filmguy , what a joke. You have inaccuracies in your post. Blu-Ray replication does not cost so much more than HD-DVD.
Dave, stop refreshing this page for more than a minute.
link from AVSforum:
http://www.proactionmedia.com/hd_br_replication.htm
click more info on the second link to see 25GB Blu-Ray costs less than 25GB HD DVD. I'm sure the big studios get a much better deal as well.
more links:
http://wesleytech.com/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-replication-costs-revealed/111/
This guy says 30% higher for a 20k run. This is for 50GB Blu-Ray compared to 30GB HD DVD though. So 67% more space for 30% more cost.
http://www.pacificdisc.com/PricingHD-DVD.html
Now I'm less likely to believe the 3rd party small timers with weak internet pages, but I googled it all. Maybe you can learn how to google one day Dave.
Had to remove some links due to limit here.
Good luck with those discs. As far as I can tell, those replicators don't apply the hard-coat. It's the hard coat that adds the cost, lowers yields, and reduces maximum capacity due to pooling. Since Blu-Ray's data is only .1mm from the surface, you'd best step lightly.
This is the interview. Somehow copied the wrong link.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11866573
this is the blu-ray costs that match the HD DVD costs that were there.
http://www.pacificdisc.com/PricingBluRay.html
What J Filmguy is completely missing is the fact that Betamax was only made by Sony as they didn't want other manufacturers capitalizing on it, while VHS was licensed out and made by many ce cos. This time around every major electronics manufacturer is making blu-ray players, while hd dvd is only made by Toshiba and Venturer(low end only).
If he is unbiased why does he round the price of blu-ray players up to $1,000 when there are many on the market under $500. You don't have to look any farther than Target or Circuit City which have the Sony BDP-300 for $499, better prices can be found at places like newegg.com. Blu-ray does cost more at the moment but it has 66% more capacity per disc layer and 35% higher bandwidth which is why it can do video at a higher bitrate than hd dvd and still use lossless audio.
The PS3 argument is just silly. Many PS3s are sold for the games to be played on standard def. tvs. There is no reason for someone with a regular tv to buy hi-def. movies. You can't discount a format that will almost certainly sell over a 100 million units. The PS2 sold 120 million units and when these people are ready to upgrade where do you think they are most likely to go? Attach rate means nothing when you're being outsold 2 to 1.
Disc size does matter. Transformers didn't include lossless audio b/c the disc wasn't large enough to include the movie, the interactive features, and uncompressed audio. Who cares about picture in picture where the director is in a little box talking over the movie giving a play by play?
As far as porn goes it is available on both formats to the tune of less than a dozen titles on either format. Check it out if that's your thing you can go to dvdempire.com. With Betamax Sony denied that market, not so with blu-ray. That isn't going to make a difference, however. The reason it was a big deal in the videotape market was b/c the only other choice you had was to go to a cheesy theater or pull out a reel to reel projector.
Some other things to consider that are easily verifiable with internet research. In Japan blu-ray outsells hd dvd 9 to 1, and in Europe the margin is 4 to 1 in favor of blu-ray.
If you go to highdefdigest and look at the hd sales chart you will see that Transformers is the only hd dvd in the top 10 the other 9 are all blu-rays. http://charts.highdefdigest.com/rank.aspx
People often bash Sony which is just ridiculous. Sony is a top notch home electronics co. that is why they can charge premium prices and still outsell the competition. Sony is just 1 company that is included in the BDA consortium, if you don't like Sony you can buy a blu-ray player made by Sharp, JVC, LG, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, Panasonic, Phillips, Denon, Funai, Loewe, Samsung (not all are on the market yet). With blu-ray there will always be a healthy amount of competition to keep the prices respectable.
Last time I counted which was on Oct. 10, blu-ray had 120 announced titles coming before the end of the year while hd dvd only had 65.
I didn't include links to everything out of time consideration, but if you research what I've said you will be able to find proof that I speak the truth.
Don't forget Onkyo
What J Filmguy is completely missing is the fact that Betamax was only made by Sony as they didn't want other manufacturers capitalizing on it, while VHS was licensed out and made by many ce cos. This time around every major electronics manufacturer is making blu-ray players, while hd dvd is only made by Toshiba and Venturer(low end only).
If he is unbiased why does he round the price of blu-ray players up to $1,000 when there are many on the market under $500. You don't have to look any farther than Target or Circuit City which have the Sony BDP-300 for $499, better prices can be found at places like newegg.com. Blu-ray does cost more at the moment but it has 66% more capacity per disc layer and 35% higher bandwidth which is why it can do video at a higher bitrate than hd dvd and still use lossless audio.
The PS3 argument is just silly. Many PS3s are sold for the games to be played on standard def. tvs. There is no reason for someone with a regular tv to buy hi-def. movies. You can't discount a format that will almost certainly sell over a 100 million units. The PS2 sold 120 million units and when these people are ready to upgrade where do you think they are most likely to go? Attach rate means nothing when you're being outsold 2 to 1.
Disc size does matter. Transformers didn't include lossless audio b/c the disc wasn't large enough to include the movie, the interactive features, and uncompressed audio. Who cares about picture in picture where the director is in a little box talking over the movie giving a play by play?
As far as porn goes it is available on both formats to the tune of less than a dozen titles on either format. Check it out if that's your thing you can go to dvdempire.com. With Betamax Sony denied that market, not so with blu-ray. That isn't going to make a difference, however. The reason it was a big deal in the videotape market was b/c the only other choice you had was to go to a cheesy theater or pull out a reel to reel projector.
Some other things to consider that are easily verifiable with internet research. In Japan blu-ray outsells hd dvd 9 to 1, and in Europe the margin is 4 to 1 in favor of blu-ray.
If you go to highdefdigest and look at the hd sales chart you will see that Transformers is the only hd dvd in the top 10 the other 9 are all blu-rays. http://charts.highdefdigest.com/rank.aspx
People often bash Sony which is just ridiculous. Sony is a top notch home electronics co. that is why they can charge premium prices and still outsell the competition. Sony is just 1 company that is included in the BDA consortium, if you don't like Sony you can buy a blu-ray player made by Sharp, JVC, LG, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Pioneer, Panasonic, Phillips, Denon, Funai, Loewe, Samsung (not all are on the market yet). With blu-ray there will always be a healthy amount of competition to keep the prices respectable.
Last time I counted which was on Oct. 10, blu-ray had 120 announced titles coming before the end of the year while hd dvd only had 65.
I didn't include links to everything out of time consideration, but if you research what I've said you will be able to find proof that I speak the truth.
How about writing you BR 'War and Peace' novels and posting them on a library blog :)
@Richard
"The PS2 sold 120 million units and when their ready where do you think they are going to go,"
Come on Richard, save the spin for the ignorant and uninformed, PS2 buyers are buying Wii and XBOX 360 in their droves, not PS3, because both those consoles have lots of quality games to play, they aren't going to PS3 as you imply.
By any standard, by sonys standard, the PS3 is a sales disaster, so how about some less biased, and shorter posts, they are getting very tedious.
You keep spouting crap saying, everything you say is researched fact and we should all swallow your blu pills.
Have a look at this site, it will give you some facts on sales numbers for your beloved PS3.
PS3 is being comprehensively outsold by Wii, Xbox 360, PSP, PS2, DS, so a raging success it is not!
http://www.vgchartz.com/
The web-enabled features are ONLINE!
Only 2 available right now. 3 more coming soon.
The ones enabled are:
Intelligence Mode. On screen widgets to track action of the film, GPS Tracker, Robot Status Alerts, Data Panel.
Sector 7 Transmission 1
First secret transmission of six video files. more will be added soon.
Other web enabled features not yet available:
Transformers Profiler. In-movie guide for learning more about the production including cast, crew, locations, etc.
Menubots. Transform the in-movie menubar to a transformer. Select from multiple looks including, bumblebee, optimus prime, and megatron.
My Clips.
Mark your favorite clips from the movie and re-order them into a custom playlist. then you can share them with other hd-dvd internet connected users. (just like 300.. aka Make Your Own Movie)
Dave, you're a nuisance to society. The hard coating is mandatory on Blu-Ray. Its not an option. No where on those sites does it say it doesn't have the hard coating, so stop making stuff up to confuse people. You were wrong, get over it.
I personally thing that both formats will survive as combo players become more common and cheaper.
Actually, it is an option, Spiza. You'll note that nowhere on those sites does it say that hte hardcoat IS included. The hardcoat process occurs after the data has been stamped. It's what's responsible for the lower yields and for the reduction in capacity. You'll note that the sites indicate a full 25GB for single-layer and a full 50GB for dual-layer. That's something not even Sony can do. Why? Because of the pooling issue. The outer rim of the discs is susceptible to corruption due to the hardcoat pooling around the edges. You think these little replication warehouses have figured out something that the major studios haven't? I'm sorry you consider common sense a nuisance.
domerdel
Whether you want to admit it, the fact is BR is a unfinalized spec. I fail to see how anyone can deny it and find it laughable at people that try to defend it or pass it off as a bonus to BR. Sure, you can say it doesn't matter, and that is obviously where I disagree with you. To change their spec to include some pretty major features this late in the game, really shows that the product was pushed out the door before it was ready. I don't care if you don't get a "rats ass" about these features, that is not the point, the point is that early adopters are going to be left out in the dark on this one. They are not have the choice to use it or not. I just don't find that to be a good business model or practice.
You can call it whatever you would like, "evolving", but that still is not enough to spin the underlying problems.
I have read Richard's comments a few times now, and what about it. How does it speak for itself? It speaks for you, you are the one thinking that those are important to your library. You talk about opinion, doesn't opinion also apply to library choice? What library you find better is subjective, you can post all the stats you want, but it doesn't matter at all. It only matters to the end user.
I would have to disagree with your analysis on HD-DVD being current generation and Blu-ray being next, but obviously you have your blu tinted glasses on and it doesn't matter what anyone else says.
The difference between BR and HD-DVD when it comes to profile and TL51. Is that if TL51 doesn't work on all current players, don't expect to see it. Unlike BR, HD-DVD is out to alienate their customers. TL51 was just proof of concept, that if the rumors are true, will work on all current generation HD-DVD players.
smee:
comparing apples to oranges in your distant analogies, is beyond retarded.
@Doorbell
WTF?????
zargon:
sad sad world you live in, lacking a vosatile pov.
HD DVD already lost someone is converting and selling
Transformers on Blu Ray hate to say it but search
google and you will quickly find VIDEOS on how to
convert HD-DVD Exclusives to Blu Ray BD-R Disc without loosing quality. People are selling copies of HD DVD exclusives on BD all over the net and even making step by step conversion guides and videos Paramount is going to loose money to the pirates on this one.
Dave, you're an idiot. The hard coating is mandatory in the Blu-Ray spec, unlike the HD DVD spec in which it is optional. You can't sell any disc called Blu-Ray without the coating(and please don't bring up the cartridge because thats just what it is, a cartridge). You wouldn't even be able to ship the discs without a hardcoating. One site has packaging into a case included in the costs, and the other has the option. You wouldn't be able to put a non-coated Blu-Ray disc into a case and ship it without destroying it. I'm starting to think you're mentally handicapped. Its the only explanation.
Now why don't you show some links for proof that the 50GB discs don't actually have 50GB of space.
No, Smee. You are the idiot. I suggest you ask what sort of coating is applied. I'm sure it's not the Durabis hardcoat nor Sony's equivalent. I'll find a link for the pooling issue when I get back from lunch. I'll try this "Google" thing I've heard so much about.
Here you go, friend:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11516639#post11516639
Sorry. Not smee--I meant Spiza.
I might actually get this.
Thanks for the link Dave, interesting. But I don't see where they are not actually making 50GB discs. I just see yield is low.
You're still wrong on the cost. Just reread the interview with the producer of CHRONOS. He actually pays for the discs and says that BD was 30% more HD DVD while getting 67% more space.
Everyone involved with the BD camp are LOSING MONEY.... Paramount was the first to realize they should go to the side where the "average joe" would buy movies.... and not cater to PS3 gamers who were disappointed with their games and had to use their system primarily as a movie player.
My Business sense tells me that the more profitable format will prevail... HD-DVD ftw. Sony loses money with every PS3 they sell... and that's the main BD-Player that's being bought.
My numbers my be a little off here, but I believe I saw somewhere that roughly 30% of households have HDTVs and roughly 1% have HD-DVD/Blu-Ray players. This leads me to believe that it may be up-converting DVD players FTW, for another year or two anyway.
Why is it a bad thing when the corporation takes a hit for the consumer?
Some of the reasoning on both sides fail.
I'm a Blu-Ray supporter for a few reasons,but at the same time I have the common sense to know that if BDA as a whole is willing to lose money to sell me a product as a customer that's a plus.
You can't knock the BDA for cutting profit margins but praise Toshiba for doing the same thing.
WE WANT COMPANIES TO BE MORE CONSUMER FRIENDLY....WHY ARE PEOPLE SAYING "Blu-ray loses (input number here) each player?WHO CARES!!!
ITS A GOOOOOOOD THING.
(Sorry for the caps....stupidity is starting to swirl outta control on both sides.
lol! you're all wasting your time argueing. No supporter of either format is going to convince the other of their mistake.
Be happy in the choice you've made whatever it is. End of story! Go outside!
Hello,
I've bought this hd dvd yesterday and I wonder if it will play well in my Toshiba qosmio because when I connect the hdmi cable in my LCD it only plays image and no sound when some extras don't play in this player.