No blue-light special at Kmart for Blu-ray
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Nov 2nd 2007 9:57AM
posted Nov 2nd 2007 9:57AM
The nations declining discount retailer has decided to not carry Blu-ray players, citing the price. They say that they aren't choosing sides and that no one's bought an end-cap, but they feel that Blu-ray players are more focused on home theater enthusiasts and they recognize that those people don't shop for the latest HT gear at Kmart. We don't get into a Kmart much, but the last time we checked the only HD movie gear they had on the shelves was an Xbox360 HD DVD add-on drive hidden amongst the rest of the 360 accessories.Update: Kmart reaffirms this to High-Def Digest saying that "Kmart intends to support both the HD DVD and Blu-ray platforms, and has no plans to support either platform exclusively." We should've also mentioned that PS3s can be found on Kmart's shelves.
How much did the BD camp pay for this spin? The "declining" retailer... with 1200 stores nationwide. You admit you "don't get into a Kmart much" but then mention that they only sell the HD DVD Xbox player. A quick search of kmart.com would reveal they sell the Toshiba A2 (http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_13500000TOS-HDA2P?vName=Computers+%26+Electronics&keyword=hd+dvd) and A3 (http://www.kmart.com/shc/s/p_10151_10104_018W875928110001P?vName=Computers+%26+Electronics&keyword=hd+dvd) players as well.
Then you minimize the $200 (by the way, we're now at sub $100, something the BD camp said HD DVD would never achieve by Christmas, yet we're now at $98) saying they need demand... lowering the price is designed to increase demand! I wasn't interested at $500, but at $100 you can count me in!
Just be fair in your analysis, don't skew things just to be pro-BD.
Unfortunately, I don't see how anyone can view EngadgetHD as unbiased. Even in their podcast, they're publicly stated that they support BD, and their incessant bashing of HD DVD players, stores, and supporters in their "summaries" is infuriating. Yet as I type this I see a Flash-based, HD DVD advertisement. If the HD DVD people bothered to read EngadgetHD they're never buy another bit of advertising space again.
EngadgetHD can no longer be taken seriously by anyone who is looking for any kind of objective, HD information.
Just because I don't think this is big news doesn't make me biased, if you want HD DVD biased news you'll have to go somewhere else.
Also, I am a self proclaimed Blu-ray supporter, but that doesn't mean the entire site is biased either. If I did display bias, the editor in chief would deal with me. Just for the record, I've been accused in the comments of being HD DVD biased before too.
As for HD DVD, they (promotions group) read the site, they've even been on the podcast (not sure if they listen). They know where we stand and they know me by my first name basis when I stop by their booth at trade shows. They haven't once said I was biased.
+1
If HD-DVD wins, are you going to be out of a job as a Blu-Ray disciple, or are you going to convert to HD-DVD-ism? :)
No, Ben, the point is that we don't want ANY bias -- not Blu-Ray, not HD DVD!
There have been PLENTY of examples of biased summaries in only the past few days where something HD DVD related was in some way demeaned or degraded in the summaries. Yesterday's summary for the "Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player: $100" was probably the epitome of your bias. "Weaker, cheaper player". "Last-gen TV". (Granted, that was Ryan's doing.) All one needs to do is look at the comments and see that a LOT of people were upset by the degrading summary.
Everyone has their personal preferences. That's fine. I personally don't care either way. I just want this damned format war to end with a winner or come to a stalemate like the DVD-R/DVD+R battle. But this week just seems to have been particularly nasty towards HD DVD with a lot of unnecessary jabs - some subtle, some not.
@Ben:
I'm curious as to why someone who informed on both formats would prefer Blu-ray. I honestly don't see a single benefit besides the space advantage, and that's not enough for me. The Blu-ray spec is years behind the HD DVD spec, BDs aren't region-free, interactive content is still a ways off, as is PIP commentary, BD provides for an extra layer of DRM, and HD DVD is cheaper. It doesn't compute for me how anyone other than the Blu-ray consortium could prefer this format.
Could you elaborate on your position Ben? It seems like most in the HT reporting industry support HD DVD for the reasons listed above, but you are a BD supporter. I love the site and I'm certainly not criticizing you for your opinion; I'm just curious as to why you support Blu-ray over HD DVD.
So why don't you mention that they sell the A2 and A3 instead of implying they only sell the XBox HD DVD. I supplied proof that they sell more. I'm just asking you to put in the facts...
@Ben
When was the last time you were accused of HD DVD bias?? 2005?
There has been 4,865,711 accusations of blu bias since then, they cant all be wrong! :)
Research, Research, Research.
"Despite reports to the contrary, Kmart says it has no plans to choose to sides in the high-def format war."
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Kmart/Kmart:_Were_Purple/1137
Read the post, read the post, read the post.
"They say that they aren't choosing sides"
Yes I have, Yes I have, Yes I have.
but you make a mountain out of a mole hill,
with the The National Enquirer/The Sun styled Headline
Ben, are you a moderator at blu-ray.com or is it coincidental that a super moderator there is a reviews editor and location is Big D, D possibly your last name.
Not me, my sig at blu-ray.com is bjdraw, which is the same sig I use at almost all sites, except those that my membership predates gmail and at those it's bdraw.
Call it what you will but there is fact in what was written.
Say 10 or so years ago K-Mart was a top tier retailer.They no longer hold this position.
So them carrying HD-DVD isn't really that much of a bonus to HD-DVD from where I reside.
Between MD,DC,and VA I only know of one K-Mart and people rarely go there due to the Super Wal-Mart that is down the street.
Reality is K-Mart is no where near as strong as a retailer as they once was.
No one I know of said HD-DVD couldn't make $100 player.Fact of the matter is you were looking for Venture to do it for you.NOT for Toshiba to do it to push out the rest of its inventory.Your your statement about the side you support is wrong.
And already people are finding it difficult to find supplies of this "limited sale" due to the fact its only based on what is currently in stock and as some readers have already posted on this website that there calls to retailers were that it was already "out of stock."
People make a point to say Engadget is baised but they feel the NEED to stick around and critize every blu-ray post that gets added to the site.
In being in the metropolitan area this story is a non issue because you can't find a K-Mart and on the slight chance you find one you'll end up passing 5 Wal-Mart's and Targets on the way.
Living in Virginia (Richmond) there are 4 Kmarts in this city alone, so your claims about 1 being in the 3 states is false. And though I rarley visit Kmart I do go there when looking for something unuiqe that I have trouble finding elsewhere. In fact I was just there last week and found just the right thing I wanted that I could not find at Target or Walmart (They had it but not in black). When i think of High Def though, I will be honest I don't think of Kmart, or Walmart, or Target. I go to Circuit City or Best buy. So all this crap is trivial. I have an Hd Dvd player that I bought cheap. it works great on my Samsung 40" LCD, and the last thing I care about is letting Sony dictate to me that i have to pay a fortune to view High Def movies on my TV. I don't buy HD DVD movies I rent them from netflix. Perhaps when this stupid war is over I will start buying. I will never buy a blue ray player at todays prices when they get to around 150.00 we'll talk. And as for Ben, get real you are so biased in your articles they become more humor than anything else.
If a company files bankruptcy it is in a decline, which Kmart has done.
K-Mart emerged from bankruptcy and bought Sears. I'd say they're doing okay now.
I just read an article on HiDefDigest that stated the EXACT opposite. To quote:
In a statement released late Thursday, Kmart VP Jonathan Magasanik said the following:
"There have been numerous statements in the media today, attributed to Toshiba, indicating exclusive support for the HD DVD format in Kmart stores. These statements are false. Kmart intends to support both the HD DVD and Blu-ray platforms, and has no plans to support either platform exclusively."
what's the deal?
Scott,
How about you actually read my post and then quote me where I said Kmart was HD DVD exclusive. Cause I wrote it and I don't remember putting that in there.
That probably means that they plan on selling both formats once BluRay player prices drop to that of K-Mart's primary clientle. That's not meant as a jab at K-Mart. (I personally have no problems shopping there and will go there before I go to Wal-Mart.) But let's face it, K-Mart is not exactly geared towards the Lords & Taylor crowd.
I would guess that most of the people who shop at K-Mart are not looking for the latest in high-tech equipment and therefore do not have much interest in a $500+ BluRay player, PS3 not withstanding. But a
woah..easy there ben. No need to get defensive. Sorry if I upset you.
Heh. Note to self: do not use actual "less than" signs when posting. :) Anyway, to finish my thought...
I would guess that most of the people who shop at K-Mart are not looking for the latest in high-tech equipment and therefore do not have much interest in a $500+ BluRay player, PS3 not withstanding. But a sub-$200 HD DVD player? That's much closer to what the average K-Mart shopper is looking for.
Right. The average K-Mart shopper is looking for an HD media player with PiP and Internet-connected ability for a lower price. REAL HD media buffs prefer NO PiP, NO Internet connected extras, and a more expensive player. Now that's fancy.
"Right. The average K-Mart shopper is looking for an HD media player with PiP and Internet-connected ability for a lower price."
Here. Let me fix that for you.
"Right. The average K-Mart shopper is looking for ... a lower price."
The average K-Mart shopper is looking for an HD media player with PiP and Internet-connected ability for a lower price
Dave Dave Dave... back track a bit... you have to remember, the average K-Mart shopper is not as tech savvy as you or I, so when they go to K-Mart, they might have an HD media player in mind, but they aren't walking in with the prerequisites of knowing what PiP and Internet-connected ability is.
They are looking for a lower price. Who isn't? You want to pay more for less? Be my guest. You can spend more now, then pay again for a 1.1 profile player. Then pay again for a 2.0 profile player. Then pay again when all your favorite movies are re-released with PiP and Internet-connected extras. Then vote for Giuliani. Then have some caviar. That's what a wealthy genius would do.
Lol, i have an idea Ben. In your next format war article, make a bias comment about HDDVD, and then one about Blu-ray, and then the fanboys won't know what to say.
- "oMG, your biased against HDDVD....and BlURAy!".
Dang-it! You're on to me!!
I'm not sure that a "K-Mart customer" would be interested in any sort of advanced technology.
I'd need a study to prove me otherwise.
LOL K-Mart bought Sears.The only Sears I know of is in Landover and the city wants to tear it down(like they did with the mall bside it.) to make a new shopping complex.
@JVirginia
Well said.
Basically it comes down to support for each format. I just don't see people who care about PQ (why else buy HD) choosing Toshiba over Pioneer, Samsung, Panasonic, Sharp, LG and Sony. But also because of the studios, Blu-ray studios have the most compeling library.
But you can read my older posts here.
www.engadgethd.com/2006/08/16/why-blu-ray-will-win/
And I have a tidbit on my personal blog.
bjdraw.com/2007/03/16/why-i-changed-my-tune-on-the-format-war/
@domerdel
So, by your statement then, BR is an elitist product that will only appeal to the tech savy geeks who want the best possible product, yet they settle for no pip, no internet connectivity,and triple the price?
I guess though, you do get the extra bonus of more DRM
Thanks for the response, Ben. But according to Home Theater Mag, Hidefdigest, and more than a few others, PQ is pretty much a wash between the two formats. In fact, the early BD releases were considered far inferior to HD DVD releases of the same title, because the BD encodes were done using MPEG-2 on 25GB discs. So let's call PQ even. That leaves studio and manufacturer support. Granted, there are far more manufacturers of BD equipment (+1 BD). But the studio support is roughly even now, with BD retaining a slight lead. Who knows what Warner will do.
But don't you think that the reason for BD's lead from the studios is because it is far more anti-consumer than HD DVD? Region-locking and BD+ being the primary factors here, cost the secondary. I'm not on HD DVD's side because I think it will win - I'm on it because I think it's far superior from a consumer perspective.
@Ben
Toshiba is as good IMO as any of those products you list, BUT BR has a more compelling library!!!!
You state that as fact, how about " IN YOUR OPINION"
Geez, it's no wonder you get flogged for being one eyed blu with your biased articles all the time, your starting to sound like h4idol!
The fact that Ben and Steve still allow this troll to post when it's clear that he's only posting for the sake of pissing people off doesn't help any semblance of trying to be "balanced" either...
We can not delete a post just because we don't like what they have to say. If he was attacking you directly then that'd be different.
This site is bias to BR. I am bias to HD-DVD because I am cheap and I think the format, at this point, has more to offer. That could change as BR continues to be developed.
To me, bitching about the bias is like complaining that Fox is a republican based news section. If you don't like it, get your news elsewhere. While it is very bias, it keeps me informed enough to read up on topics and draw my own conclusions.
Kmart is a declining store, which is why they merge with Sears to slow the sinking ship.
Few solo Kmarts exist, most are now sears, which carry BR, so this either matters little, or may give hope that BR will be dropped from Sears. I preffer to live in the present, so it matters little until someone from Sears say so.
In the end, the effect this will have is less then the one day firesale that Best Buy and Walmart had on the HD-A2s. That will be interesting to see how it will affect sales next week, and if it will continue to affect sales.
My 1 day fire sale comment may be incorrect. An article I read said as long as supplies last. I'm not sure which is correct, but I'm sure either is only to make way for the A3.
If enough are in production, and the continue to go off the shelves quickly(a local Walmart in MD sold out in 20 minutes), it could upset the PS3 loss leader trojan horse that hasn't done nearly as well as expected(face it, with the numbers, the stats should be A LOT higher then 2 to 1).
Of course, I am no trend analizer, so I'd take my theories with a bag of salt, but it will be interesting none the less, especially tailing on the announcement of no sub $400 BR players for the holidays.
Ben, I disagree completely. This has nothing to do with whether you agree or not but whether the posts are appropriate or not.
h4ldol is doing nothing more than abusing his posting privileges by intentionally posting flamebait in every single post. You even mentioned in the last podcast that he's attempted to turn completely non-BR/HDDVD-related threads into his little flamefest.
Additionally, other users are calling for his posting privileges to be revoked.
This is not a government institution and therefore none of us have 1st Amendment protections. Our posting privileges are just that - privileges that can be granted or revoked. When someone does nothing but intentionally flame in over 95% of his posts *and* you have people in his own camp telling him to stop it *and* you have multiple users saying that he needs to have his posting privileges revoked, then - yes - as administrators that should raise a red flag on that user's access.
I would have to say this has not been a good week for Blu-Ray. First, Transformers was a smash. I found the last copy of the HD-DVD version in a Best Buy - four days after release. In other words, it flew off the shelf. Second, if you go to Google News, you'll see multiple stories about Wal-Mart, Best Buy and others selling sub-$100 HD-DVD players.
In the past I have focused my posts on how well the key players are doing financially. Sony IS having a difficult time, though they hope to hit expected profit margins, but can't be certain to do so. I know the PS3 is a great platform, but it's just not doing well. In the meanwhile Toshiba is getting ready to release sub $1000 notebooks with built-in HD-DVD. Ergo, the road-warrior starts buying the titles for his/her new toy and has to get a machine at home.
So, why would they buy an expensive player (we're not all video/audiophiles but just want better pictures)when a player can be had for less than a Franklin?
By the way, KMart and Sears are having revenue issues, but did manage to make a profit, not to mention a veritable fortune in real estate they literally sit on. Declining retailer? Maybe, but one that is headed by an investor who isn't sitting back.
So - Sony weak; HD-DVD camp doing pretty well. Low prices on hardware=lots more units on the market which should drive up sales of disks.
As for Ben's assertion that the BD library is more compelling, that's a matter of taste and very subjective.
If this low price strategy for hardware works, than many of the BD only studios will re-evaluate and probably sell HD-DVD too. They aren't going to tie their stars to Sony's impending train wreck.
I've said from the very beginning, long before either format hit the streets that there'd be no difference in PQ or AQ. Even if there were, it wouldn't change the outcome of the format war.
As for why the studios changed sides, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter why I chose one format over another, what matters is how many people buy players and thus movies.
I know it sucks, but these things are not decided on their merits, but instead on the effectiveness of their marketing departments to sell them to most people.
You're right, I sent him an email and asks him to stop. If it continues I'll ban him.
The problem is, h4 is pro BR.
Despite his constant negative and distasteful posts, there is no way this site is going to shut him down, they love his work.
@h4
Good old h4, there is no bigger troll on any forum anywhere, I am glad you are not on my side you make a complete an ass out of yourself, and blu ray, every time you open your gob.
A couple of articles on from this one at engadget destroys all your theories and shows you for the muppet you are.
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/11/02/specs-lie-your-eyes-and-ears-dont/
oops, just read Ben's last last post re banning h4, after I wrote my last post, apologies Ben. i stand corrected. :(
The reason why we see +$1000 BD players is that people are willing to pay for it - like HT enthusiasts. If you ask one of them to buy a +$1000 HD-DVD player, they'll laugh at you and tell you "what's the point?". HD-DVD spec has always been under performing, limited, and no future for large screens such as projection.
Well, no real review sites agree with you.
No real review sites agree with me?
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/
Your lack of knowledge and ignorance on HDM is unbelievable - are all HD-DUD fanbois like you?
Ben,
Fanboy rants aside, you do present your articles with a pro-Blu Ray slant. If you can't see that yourself you should honestly step back and do more critical editing of your own work.
Each article you provide that has anything to do with the HD DVD's progress in this format war contains marginalizing comments and derision to suggest that it's progress isn't even progress at all.
What would greatly help reader reaction to your submissions is a clear, unskewed presentation of the facts. Leave the snide comments for the fanboy reactions. A journalist has no business engaging in that type of play. If what you're aiming at is humor in your posts, it is being lost among many readers because far too often the humor is poked in a single direction.
That doesn't just hurt your credibility, but also the credibility of blogging as a whole and it's chance of being respected as an actual form of journalism. Too much blurring of that line has lowered the quality of journalism produced today. If you consider yourself a journalist at all, you should strive to hold yourself to a higher standard, to be objective.
With less sensationalism and better vetting of sources, this blog could be alot better, maybe even a reliable source of A/V news overall.
As it stands now, many view it as infotainment.
I hope these comments don't fall on deaf ears