European HD DVD Group talks attach rate numbers
By Steven Kim 
posted Nov 12th 2007 10:48PM
posted Nov 12th 2007 10:48PM
We focus on the U.S. market, but the European HD DVD Group just issued some numbers that caught our attention. Yes indeed -- more fuel for the format war, just in time to stoke the fires again. The European faction of team red didn't talk unit sales, but is proudly touting attach rate numbers, and with good reason. After doing the math across six countries and accounting for both standalone and console-based players, HD DVD enjoyed an attach rate of 3.8 vs. Blu-ray's figure of 0.6. Ouch. Spain posted the highest HD DVD attach rate (5.7 compared to 0.4 for Blu-ray). Now, one number doesn't tell the whole story any more than one region will dictate the entire format war; but it's an interesting number still. When you consider that HD DVD releases are less restricted by distribution rights in Europe than here in the U.S., the European playing field is closer to the "let the consumer decide" model we'd really like to see. Expect a Blu-ray response in 5... 4...
So the HD DVD group doesn't count PS3s when they talk about number of players sold, but they count PS3s when calculating attach rate. Seems a bit inconsistent.
Kind of like how Blu-ray counts Fox and MGM as studios who release on BD, when they release about 1-2 titles per month. And how Blu-ray counts PS3s as players sold, except when talking about attach rates.
There is framing of the argument and misdirection on both sides of the war - just the nature of things.
If I made a HD Player and made a movie for it - I could have 100% attach rate... or... I could OUTSELL the competition by a margain of more 2 to 1 and make some money... hum.. decisons decisons... Put your Attach Rate in your pipe and smoke it !
blah blah blah, the hd dvd group is even more fanatic than the blu ray side. dont take it from me, they have a history of talking shit...
(person 1. oh jay what have you done, here comes the shit loads of replies to attack and discredit your comment!
person 2. its ok dude, i knew what i was doing. now here comes the yeah but sony and this and that, man you know what that reminds me of afterdawn and that guy hughjars. remember hughjars always being fanatic
person 1. oh yeah. dude forget next gen bullshit and lets go eat some tacos.
person 2. agreed!)
You're person 1 & 2, Jay. Nobody here is as angry or irrational as you are.
@Jay
Wow, what a ridiculous rant, WTF was that all about, you been smokin something illegal?
If Hugh Jars gets so far up the Blu-boy's noses they start whining & bitching about him or her on other sites then he or she sounds alright to me.
Too funny by far.
Um, what's an 'attach rate'?
Attach rate = number of media units sold/number of media players sold.
Basically how many movies does each player have.
Shouldn't the talk about HDM units sold, rather than attach rates if they are going to show how much better they are doing? Oh, wait. Maybe that number doesn't show that. Guess what? Both the red and blue folk spin numbers.
What's going to win this war for one side is the number of HDM units sold. Eventually the cost of both HD-DVD and Blu-ray manufacturing will go down. The movie studios care about reselling your movie collection to you again.
Sony decided to place it's bets on the Playstation. For those of you who remember, the PS2 was the cheapest DVD player in Japan when it was released. Sony thought they could do the same thing with the PS3. It seems to be working, if you look at the Warner releases with BD outselling HD-DVD. Toshiba, has been trying to close the install base gap with really cheap players. We will see how well they do next year when we compare Warner releases. Will all those cheap HD-DVD equate to sales?
I want BD to win only because it means I can get an extra 10GB of storage on a single layer disc. However, if the HDM war was over tomorrow and HD-DVD won, I would be happy. Not that HD-DVD won, but that the war is over.
I want HD-DVD to win only because it means I can get to import unreleased N.A. Movies from overseas and choose from multiple copies to purchase only the best transfer. However, if the HDM war was over tomorrow and Blu-ray won, I would be happy. Not that blu-ray won, but that the war is over.
See what I did there :P
I like the hd-dvd format more but I seem to like more titles released on blu-ray ATM. however I also enjoy several titles released on hd-dvd. Either way its a moot point because if a format does becom winner, then titles on the losing format will eventually make their way to the winning format. This means transformers on blu-ray if blu-ray wins and james bond on hd-dvd if hd-dvd wins.
ATM Im on the sidelines. Actually im downloading many a release of .wmv encoded blu-ray and hd-dvd films in 720p to watch on my xbox. Its deffenitly giving me my hd fix (and its free :P) but I would like to go all out, 1080p 24hz standalone player etc etc. I just cant bring myself to buy either format tho. I know that it does not matter which format i purchase as I will be missing out on movies from the other one. The only solution is to buy a dual player. But then those are still too expensive ($1000 msrp for the new samsung coming out). When I can buy a dual player (or 2 standalones) for $400 tax in and here in Canada that both do 1080p, is the day i buy into the format. Either that or if one side wins buy the winner.
This silly war has gone on long enough. Now its just hurting everyone in various ways. One example is jurassic park not being released in HD. Steven S is a big douche and wont let his movie be released on hd-dvd and universal wont produce it on blu-ray so therefore all of us do not get to watch it. With only 1 format out, there would be no complaints, and we could all look forward to the release. Arg i hate this war.
Don't get me wrong, i think it is completely valid to equate the PS3's as a blu-ray player in statistics and so forth, but you can't deny that a lot of people will never you use it for that purpose and that most average consumers will not buy a PS3 just to get blu-ray. They will want a stand-alone unit with IR remote and all! I think its fair to speculate that at least for now the huge gap in media sales is due to the influx of PS3's sold, it was a clever move by sony to include blu-ray in the PS3, but only to obtain huge profits and further their own cockiness. I agree with pedantic about seeing how interesting this holiday season will make the format war though.
What do those attach rate numbers mean exactly?
nevermind. someone answered above.
Am I the only one here who wants EITHER format to die a quick and painful death so we can just move on with life?
Then why are you here ken?
Aren't most of us here Americans? Therefore, we could care less about what anyone else in other countries think or do. We love our NFL and prowrestling (it's real, I can prove it!) and the rest of you all can bugger off. Oh wait, maybe that's just what our venerable President thinks... hmmmm....
1) PS3s do not necessarily go in homes that have HDTVs.
2) Every last HD DVD player or Xbox add-on goes into an HDTV household. 3) Nearly every BD player in Europe is a PS3, since the cost differences there are much worse.
4) HDTV penetration is several years behind the USA.
So, if each HD DVD owner buys 5 discs and each PS3 + HDTV owner buys 5 discs, the attach rates for Blu-ray will still suck, because the other PS3 owners without HDTVs drag the average down badly. Poorer countries with fewer HDTVs (like Spain) will have worse numbers.
Of course it means little, because the numbers of HD DVD player sales are fairly small compared to the 2.5 million PS3s sold in Europe.
But it is a fun statistic to throw around.
They should be talking about disc sales in stead of attach rates, Blu-ray is killing HD DVD in Europe and we are not talking 2:1 like the US but 8:1 in some European country's (thanks to the PS3). I just don't see why anyone would care about attach rates?
Something is severly wrong when "HD DVD has sold more players" and "HD DVD has a higher attatch rate", and yet there are WAY more blu ray discs being sold. They can't make BOTH of those statements while BD is selling more discs. They need to pick one or the other.
Here's some sound advice for those ready to choose:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07314/832733-96.stm?cmpid=business.xml
That's the worst advice I have ever read. Sounds like someone went down walmart and bought a $99 player, and now off of a sudden thinks he can win the war on his own little nws site!
FACT: Blu-ray is outselling HD DVD in media by a factor of 3:1, and has been outselling it for over a year now.
FACT: Vastly more Blu-ray players are on the market (6million Blu-ray vs 500,000 HD DVD)
FACT: Attach rates ON DEDICATED players, Blu-ray is better (if you are an idiot, and include PS3, it will obviously lower the movie attach rate).
I was not surprised when i read the attach rate, it's basically the same here. Also the Attach rate is actually important figure for companies making movies. It tells movie studios that people who havd HD-DVDs tend to buy more at a time and per player but if they releaseit on blu-ray that most people only buy like one at a time oor one per few players. SO it makes studios think why should i release a bunch of titles on blu-ray if only one will sell per every 3 players when i could release it on HD-DVD and have people buy multiple at once and per player. Make sense?
So if they sell them on both but blu-ray has higher sales because it has almost 10 times more player but the attach ratio is low compared to HD-DVD that sells a alot and the attach ratio is higher but not as many sales as blu-ray because they sell more movies per player it makes them think HD-DVD sells better especially when the base gets higher.
Sorry it's early and i am tired and tryign to hurry before work so if i repeat myself sorry. But i hope i get my message across.
Those HD DVD guys are funny.
When it comes to players out there, they like to exclude PS3. Yet when they talk attach rates, they like to INCLUDE them.
Anyone that believes this PR, is a total idiot. That's OFFICIAL.
FACT: Blu-ray Media is NOT selling 3:1 over HD DVD - if you read the weekly Nielson reports, you'd know that. The ratio is more like 1.8:1 nowadays. It's never been 3:1 except in individual weeks.
Why did you count the PS3 as a Blu-ray player in your "6 million Blu-ray players sold worldwide" point, then NOT count it when you're talking about attach rate? Probably because if you did, the BD attach rate would be .6 per player, versus HD DVD's 5-6 per player.
You seem to have a pretty forgiving definition of the word "fact." TrentD has already pretty well called into doubt the "factual" nature of your first assertion. And while the second, about the number of players, is unquestionable, I would love to see some numbers supporting your third assertion that Blu-Ray's stand-alone attachment rate beats HD-DVD.
I don't personally care; you may be right. But saying something controversial without any proof and then calling it a "fact" does not make it such.
I suspect that you don't have any proof or you would have referenced it, but I won't call you an idiot for it. Because calling people "idiots" is RUDE.
You seem to have a pretty forgiving definition of the word "fact." TrentD has already pretty well called into doubt the "factual" nature of your first assertion. And while the second, about the number of players, is unquestionable, I would love to see some numbers supporting your third assertion that Blu-Ray's stand-alone attachment rate beats HD-DVD.
I don't personally care; you may be right. But saying something controversial without any proof and then calling it a "fact" does not make it such.
I suspect that you don't have any proof or you would have referenced it, but I won't call you an idiot for it. Because calling people "idiots" is RUDE.
Stupid, or rather, retarded bickering on both sides. I am NOT surprised, but I expect better from PR people. The "story" of the high def disc fiasco just involves plot holes big enough to float a carrier group through.
I love Danny Boyle's films, and he's european so I hope HDVD wins over there so I can play them over here. This is great evidence that that is a very real (and probable) scenario.
Top 100 HD films at the moment 9 HD-DVD v 91 BLU-RAY
http://charts.highdefdigest.com/rank.aspx?E8376E443383401D8509776947ABB6F3
A UK news site, The Register, tried to get some clarification on what sort of numbers are being touted from the European HD DVD Promotional Group who said the following....
"Unfortunately, we aren’t releasing total sales numbers because we feel that it is early days for both formats compared to DVD,"
Considering the BluRay market here in Europe is far stronger than the US, I would guess the numbers aren't too good.
LOL
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/11/14/euro_hddvd_sales_challenge/