http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/ Engadget HD Comments for European Blu-ray Chairman calls HD DVD Group's actions "unbelievable" http://hd.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://hd.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2009 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 1:47PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 1:45PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 4:00PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 10:14PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
LMAO!!! That was priceless, I did indeed need a good roar of laughter this morning.. Everyone knows that Sony and Blu-ray have manipulated numbers and figures to win over consumers ever since adoption. HD DVD has actually been the respectable side that isn't full of lies and claiming they've won the format war every other month! I mean, isn't the war over? Isn't HD DVD already dead as of several months ago? Oh wait, actually it looks like lately, HD DVD has absolutely been kicking Blu-ray in its blu-balls!]]>Nov 13th 2007 1:51PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 2:51PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 1:50PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 2:06PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/The desperation of those suckers at hd dvd camp is really getting annoying. I would just let them RIP.]]>Nov 13th 2007 1:52PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
I say good-day]]>Nov 13th 2007 2:03PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
Did you know the most popular Blu-ray player, the PS3, is sold at a greater than $200 per unit loss? Or is it just okay when Blu does it?]]>Nov 13th 2007 2:09PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
call the frickin wah-mbulance...]]>Nov 13th 2007 1:55PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
Bad PR move. Now they have even less credibility over in the HD corner. Although Simonis does sound like a bit of a whiny child in that article.]]>Nov 13th 2007 2:02PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 2:03PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
Despite HD DVD having a finalized spec, users still have a problem playing HD DVD combo discs and then there is always the boil an HD DVD disc to get it to play dilemma. The HD DVD attach rate announcement was incredibly misleading.]]>Nov 13th 2007 7:00PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 2:06PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
snappy comeback, h4. good to know that you would at least acknowledge that BOTH sides are fudging the numbers.]]>Nov 13th 2007 6:07PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 2:06PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
What's to argue about though? You take the total number of blu-ray players and divide it by the sales of discs and you get your attach rate.

How are they fudging the numbers?]]>Nov 13th 2007 2:06PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
on one side the HD-DVD association doesn't count PS3's as BD players for total player sales. Then when they calculate the attach rate they do count the PS3.

Both calculations have been done in such a way that HD-DVD looks the best. It's okay to do one or the other but doing both is a simple lie.

It's one used here on the forums all the time.]]>Nov 13th 2007 3:43PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/You still fail.

"And don't quote that article that talks about a teardown of first-generation players, since the obviously doesn't apply."

"Did you know the most popular Blu-ray player, the PS3, is sold at a greater than $200 per unit loss?"

Now YOU wouldn't happen to be quoting a tear down based on pre-release numbers of a first gen tear down? Oh wait yes you are. They systems for sale now are 3rd and 4th gen ps3's.]]>Nov 13th 2007 3:43PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
Did you know that your figure for the PS3 loss is about 8 months old? Blu-ray Diode went down from $125-8.]]>Nov 14th 2007 12:42PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
I don't want to read about the inane ramblings of some crybaby executive. Put up or shut up.]]>Nov 13th 2007 2:14PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
http://www.polldaddy.com/p.asp?p=137075]]>Nov 13th 2007 2:20PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
BDA acts as though they didn't throw the first stone, what a bunch of whiny babies not getting their way.

But after all, HD-DVD is dead, so why does it matter at all... right?]]>Nov 13th 2007 2:23PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 2:28PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/You only have to look at the amount of money sony is losing in it's game division to know they are losing bucket loads of money on the PS3. Loses are at record highs.
http://www.vgchartz.com/]]>Nov 13th 2007 8:41PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
I agree that's playing the stats, but still, the attach rate is valid.

I guess they need to include the PS3 in the sales stats but simply say 80% of blu-ray player owners are not interested in the media.]]>Nov 13th 2007 4:31PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
Europe has laws about that kind of thing.]]>Nov 13th 2007 3:43PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
BDA acts as though they didn't throw the first stone, what a bunch of whiny babies not getting their way.

But after all, HD-DVD is dead, so why does it matter at all... right?"

Because when you are slandered on the product you defend, it does matter.
HD DVD was caught lying and manipulating, and it shouldn't go uncalled, as it has for months now with their stupid "attach rate" that one day includes PS3s and the next doesn't, depending on Tosh's needs.
Like it or not, 40% of the millions PS3 users know their PS3 plays Blu-Ray and use it as such.
And with SM3 included in the new PS3s, that will only grow.

Toshiba was caught, and they are even strating to get called on it by third parties:

"The HD DVD camp's decision to include PS3 sales in its figures also raised a few eyebrows in the Tech.co.uk office yesterday morning. In the past, by not including the PS3 in its figures, hardware sales looked more impressive for the HD DVD supporters.

But now, with the PS3 included when calculating the attach rate per player, the BD numbers are thus diluted. This is what the Blu-ray Disc Association chairman meant when he said the HD DVD camp had "manipulated" the data. "

http://www.tech.co.uk/home-entertainment/video/dvd-hdd-players-and-receivers/blu-ray-and-hd-dvd/news/blu-ray-reacts-angrily-to-hd-dvd-claims?articleid=126958731]]>Nov 13th 2007 4:03PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
BDA has no legs to stand on with their cry for a foul. BDA started the FUD and dirty tactics before they were even available to the public and now when they get a taste of their own medicine. They make a huge scene like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum. Which really makes their crys and whining essentially moot.

I think that it is making them look like the petulant childern of this format war, in turn just giving them bad PR more than anything. ]]>Nov 13th 2007 4:18PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 3:44PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
]]>Nov 13th 2007 4:11PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
It's hilarious to hear the guy bitch about manipulating the numbers, then come back and say that they're outselling HD DVD by 3:1 when we know for a fact that isn't true. Pot, meet kettle.]]>Nov 13th 2007 4:12PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
How is the announcement misleading? Discs sold divided by players sold. It's not that hard.]]>Nov 14th 2007 11:39AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
Sony doesn't mind including the PS3 as a blu-ray player in their hardware counts... but when toshiba includes it in an Attach Rate study, they get all defensive...]]>Nov 13th 2007 4:26PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
Both calculations have been done in such a way that HD-DVD looks the best. It's okay to do one or the other but doing both is a simple lie..."]]>Nov 13th 2007 5:48PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
This is the kind of lie you can only get with statistics. The attach rate is still valid or the unit sales are still valid. They are not both valid because they require mutually exclusive basis assumptions.

It's a pretty tight spot to be caught in. Especially in Europe where BD is doing much better than it is in the US. The European HD-DVD association may be called out to actually present the data they are basing their figures on.

It would be interesting if they are willing to concede the total software sales numbers and the total hardware sales to BD. Both Euro values and volume numbers show BD firmly ahead. Maybe they have a 99E player waiting in the wings over there?



]]>Nov 13th 2007 5:03PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
]]>Nov 13th 2007 4:38PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
It would make gladiatorial combat look like a kids karate lesson at the Y.]]>Nov 13th 2007 4:40PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 4:49PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 5:11PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
It is the leading Blu-ray player on the market, yet its movie attach rate is horrible, so when measuring both formats it appears that Blu-ray is doing much better than it actually is in real numbers. Hence the ridiculously large gap between the hardware and software ratios when compared to HD DVD.

So in other words, Blu-ray will always appear to perform better than HD DVD in players and movies sold even if more than 50% of their players aren't actually being used as players.

Who's REALLY skewing the data here?

]]>Nov 13th 2007 5:16PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
I'm an HD DVD supporter, but all this negativity over how people wish to be entertained is staggering and makes me almost not want to post anything. ]]>Nov 13th 2007 5:20PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
They bawl their eyes out that no one will count their kiddies game console as a standalone player yet when they are counted (to produce the attachment rate) they just wail even louder.

Hypocrites.

......and losers.

The US retail industry 'called' the war already.

When Walmart went $98 HD DVD you know it's all over.

(and if HD DVD can't sell with a larger available movie catalogue (& exclusive catalogue) @ $98 then what hope for incomplete, over-priced & sub-spec Blu-ray which offers less?)]]>Nov 13th 2007 5:20PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
The AVSForum as a whole wasn't shut down, only the Blu-ray and HD DVD threads, and that was in part because of physical and legal threats and in part to restate to everyone what those areas were meant for in the first place: to provide help and information about both formats.

It's also important to note that it isn't the whole world fighting tooth and nail about the two formats, only a small population of early adopters and blog/forum regulars.

It is sad though to see consumers arguing over details that really only matter to the companies on each side. For us, it should really only be about the products.

]]>Nov 13th 2007 6:03PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
If I were one of them, I'd actually be terrified to read the blogs based on some of these over-the-top responses.]]>Nov 13th 2007 9:32PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/Nov 13th 2007 6:29PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
It's almost like BD fans think the more they say it, the better the chances of it actually happening are.

Sorry, HD DVD isn't going anywhere for a long time (and neither is BD, most likely).]]>Nov 13th 2007 6:43PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/http://hd.engadget.com/2007/11/13/european-blu-ray-chairman-calls-hd-dvd-groups-actions-unbeliev/
What are you smok'n? You have it completely ass-backwards. Sony's committed to the PS3 for atleast 10 years so that means Blu-ray will be around for that long atleast. HD-DVD on the other hand has only support from Toshiba and Microsoft, which either can jump ship at anytime over to BD. With BD's market share dominance world wide, HD-DVD is dying faster than ever before.

Another example, Blockbuster has already doubled their rental/shelf space for BD at most stores. This shows that BD rentals are much more profitable and popular than HD-DVD rentals.
]]>Nov 13th 2007 7:34PM