Engadget HD Podcast 059 - 11.28.2007
By Trent Wolbe 
posted Nov 28th 2007 11:00AM
posted Nov 28th 2007 11:00AM
We enjoyed our week off, and now we're back with another edition of the Engadget HD Podcast. It's longer than normal since we tried to cover two weeks of news, but there's something for everyone. Unlike the last episode, most of this one is not about the format war, but we do cover a few tid-bits including our nominees for vaporware of the year, TotalHD and 51 GB HD DVDs. We finish up with talk of the digital transition and what our parents are planning to do -- if anything.Get the podcast
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Hosts: Ben Drawbaugh and Steve Kim
Producer: Trent Wolbe
11:30 - CE-Oh no he didn't! Part XI: Stringer's flip-flop edition
13:48 - Toshiba's Mike Eves wackily compares format war to fuel
14:31 - Onkyo DV-HD805 dissected, Toshiba HD-XA2 found inside
17:41 - TotalHD gets the axe
19:19 - DVD Forum approves 51GB triple-layer HD DVD spec
21:49 - Consumer Reports' take on HD DVD / Blu-ray players: it's a tie
29:14 - VUDU lines up studios to provide HD content
32:05 - XstreamHD to deliver 1080p to your home
34:22 - The HD Guru lets the numbers do the talking
35:22 - Samsung's LED-backlit LN-T4681F LCD HDTV gets reviewed
38:33 - DisplaySearch numbers show global TV sales growth
39:16 - Survey sez: nearly half of America prefers football on HDTV versus in-person
41:26 - Poll: Do you prefer your sports live or in HD?
42:35 - Comcast to NFL Network: stop coaxing customers away... or else
46:30 - DirecTV extends their HD lineup, again
47:38 - Charter bringing SDV, 40+ HD channels to northern L.A. area
48:10 - Switched video on cable coming to TiVo in 2008
49:41 - 22% of analog owners have no plans for digital switchover
51:34 - LG's Zenith-branded DTT900 converter box gets pictured
LISTEN (MP3)
LISTEN (AAC)
LISTEN (OGG)
As far as NFL Network vs Big Cable. I don't care whose fault it is, I just want it. Sure Big Cable owns their network, but I have the right to switch. So I did. Time Warner's battle with the NFL Network was the main reason I just switched to DirecTV. All the new HD channels I get just sealed the deal. And the HD-DVR (HR21) is not perfect, but its far better than my cable DVR.
So TW, you can blame the NFL for losing a customer (also blame your limited HD channels and HORRIBLE DVR)
haha. love the rant about CE-No he didn't
Well, cool! Thanks for the podcast plug, guys! And by all means give me feedback, even if you hated it. I can't get better if I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
With respect to Consumer Reports, Joe Six-Pack does read CR; however, they just don't know any better. I know people who think that if something is tops in CR, well, then it's obviously tops, even if CR is completely wrong. Seriously. I've learned to just stop with particular family members on matters like this, because CR just can't be wrong in their eyes. (Ugh!)
Steve, don't sweat not having an HD system. I've had a high-def-capable (1080i), 55" projection TV for about 7 years. But I didn't actually go to high-def until I replaced an old 27" tube set with a 47" LG LCD TV a month ago. Only then did I finally upgrade to Comcast's HD unit. (A week later my wife grabbed one of the $98 HD DVD players, though. Woohoo!)
My recommendation? Find one of those "No interest for 18 (or more) months" deals, and take advantage of that. The LG TV that I just bought normally sells for $1,999. I bought it for $1,799 with no interest until Jan 2009. Thanks to two price matches, I ended up getting $300 of that back. The key, of course, is the discipline to pay it off before the end of the term, especially if the APR is more than 20%. (My "deferred" interest just for the first month was more than $30! OUCH!!!) But taking proper advantage of "no interest until..." offers is a great way to get new hardware.
With respect Comcast and NFL (also the Big 10 Network), I have no interest in football, so I have absolutely no problems with Comcast saying that they're not putting it in the normal tier. As far as I'm concerned there are already too many sports channels. (Of course, that could also be said about lots of different types of channels.)
Finally, I found digital-analog converter rebate information at http://www.betanews.com/article/Digital_TV_Converter_Box_Rebate_Announced/1173725841 although there are probably other places that talk about it as well.
At least Comcast offers NFL Network. I'd pay for the sports tier to get it. But Time Warner doesn't offer it at all in Dallas.
"My recommendation? Find one of those "No interest for 18 (or more) months" deals, and take advantage of that. "
Just make sure you pay it off in full *BEFORE* the 18 months -- most of those "deals" have fine print that says, "If you don't pay it off in the 18 months, we will charge interest retroactive to the day you bought it." That means if your TV cost $1000 and you pay off $999.99 of it, leaving a penny on the bill, you'll be socked with interest for the ENTIRE 18 months, so be careful!
This is late but its about CNBC HD
Interactivity using the preexisting technology of two audio channels, where have I seen that before oh yeah 1994
Xyzzy, you completely missed where I said ...
"The key, of course, is the discipline to pay it off before the end of the term, especially if the APR is more than 20%. (My "deferred" interest just for the first month was more than $30! OUCH!!!) But taking proper advantage of "no interest until..." offers is a great way to get new hardware."
;)
Ooops.... I'll go get my eyes checked now. Sorry! *blush* :)
TiVO talk: One more thing that frustrates is not being able to get the episode # & original air date when you scroll through info of channel or guide window. a way around this is to hit record & when you get the recording window option, hit info & it will give you more detailed info. like you'd have on playback.
sidenote: i noticed on the topic of Planet Earth, there's confusion about who narrates which version. If you want sigourney weaver over david attenborough, buy from http://www.PEDVD.com. everyone else that sells planet earth, sells the d. attenborough version. couldn't find it until now, so i finally broke down & bought the weaver version. at $85.90 after shipping (no tax), it's 'bout $15 more then the price of BBC version.
long-winded, but thought someone might need 2 know. later-(good show)
Peyote... On the HD TIVOs you can see that information. I never tried to find it on the Series2 units. I am currently in the process of switching over to the HD units and abandoning the Series2's... 2 units down 2 to go. It's why I am flipping out with TIVOs change in multi-unit pricing plan. I have to call them and rant. It's coming very soon.
@ steve jr.,
i have series 3. what i meant was when you're watching a show live & hit info, you don't get the episode # & orig. air date (same as info from guide). But the shortcut to this "before you actually record" is to hit record & before confirm, hit info & scroll down to see air date. important for 1 episode recording. it's a pain because there should be an easier way to get that info before recording it. tivoHD & series 3 have same menu, correct?
i'm also frustrated at local cableco. most of my shows are crossed out when i see them in the tivo transfer. i waited a while for this to get to series 3 & almost everything, but main HD channels are X-ed out. i'm too lazy to get them to correct the copy flags. if anyone in OKC, OK area wants to complain, be my guest & i'll thank you with a thank you.
my point on HD-DVD & Blu-Ray is they both kick-ass (only have HDdvd) & if the one i have dies out, then it'll give me the perfect excuse to rip it to my Hard Drive.
What was the name of the tv show mentioned (the one with the physicists) during the podcast? Anyone remember? TIA
Matt
big bang theory
Let it out guys... let it out... TIVO ranting... it's a good thing.
It's better than Blu-Ray rules.... or HD-DVD rules.... or BD is GREAT... or BD SUCKS!!! This TIVO ranting is a nice change of pace. Do we have any ears over at TIVO that visit here or that anyone in Engadget or EHD knows? What about a guest visitor from TIVO corporate to address some of this ranting?
I have bitched about that Guide not showing a show scheduled to record since day one. Why can't it color the block light red or put the stupid little red ball to indicate it's scheduled to be recorded?
My current rant is about the price change for multi-unit accounts. I currently have THREE series2's and one series3, but am in the process of abandoning the series2 except for the one in the kitchen. The newest unit (a TIVO HD) just arrived a couple days ago and is the next to go online soon. BTW, your TVIO HD versus Series3 was much appreciated in knowing the differences... especially with the Cable Card... and at $125 a pop which is what Service Electric Cable here in the Kingston, PA charges for each card. Not to mention, they make you pay for it in total up front... they so suck!!!
Ben.... Ben... Ben... you MUST watch NFL LIVE? Who watches LIVE TV anymore?
That's what you keep busting my stones about when I complain that I can't surf the channels anymore. See you do need to watch TV live and I love to surf the channels and TIVO making me press that UP/DOWN channel button every single time SUCKS!!! I actually record the NFL shows and let them buffer up at least 30 minutes to 45 minutes and then it's great to fly through the commercials and by the time I get to the end it's nearly LIVE at that point.
I laughed at your glee about the pending analog shut off. I think there will a LOT of angry people then. But, for those of us in the know, I have a decidedly geeky name for it:
Y2K+9.26
You got my biggest TiVo pet peeve--the inability to tell from the TiVo Guide or Grid Guide what shows are set to record. They should also list what programs would be recorded but have a conflict. They certainly have room on the TiVo guide on the right side in front of the time.
I'd also like to see some type of view telling me how much space I have left. I prefer to manage my own programs and use the automatic controls as a back up. I'm always overly optimistic about how much of it I have time to watch. So it's pretty easy to pick shows I'll never get around to watching. On the other hand, I like to stockpile multiple episodes and have a multi-hour block on the weekend. I do this especially with shows that I don't know if they are any good. Like Flash Gordon on Sci-Fi. I had stashed five episodes before I read the reviews that indicated I could delete the series as it wasn't worth watching. And I hate getting into a show that gets cancelled after a few episodes. Anyway, knowing what percentage of the HD is available would be nice.
ooh ooh Ben mention my username in the next podcast even if I dont have anything worthy to say...
Its like a celebrity mentioning me on tv! actually its more like the children's show "Romper Room" and the magic mirror... "I see Locke6854...."
Haha!
That's pretty funny stuff. Seriously you had me laughing.
I don't know how many times I've told my parents about the analog shut off in '09, and the other day my parents ask me, "Julio! Our TVs are going to stop working in 2009?!?!?"
Apparently they saw one of those commercials on Univision talking about it, so I suppose those ads are hepful because now I know for damn sure that my parents don't listen to squat I say about tech...
*just nod and smile*
BTW, come on Ben are you really defending the studios? I realize they have to make money and are good for advertising a making the big-budget stuff, but once you start trying to influence government officials into passing laws so that customers will stick to their old broken bussines model, instead of actually doing what the customer wants, that's pretty greedy. But I know we're stuck with them for quite a while.
And I wouldn't do that if I were in their shoes, not because I'm "moral" or anything, but mostly because I wouldn't want to be one of those companies that people hate and think are just plain evil and out of touch.
You're right about Consumer Reports not being the best place to get reviews for electronics. However that does not mean their findings are irrelevant. Keep in mind that all displays vary a bit off the line (That's how calibrators make their money). One Panasonic outperforming one Pioneer isn't really a big deal. This is expected with low statistics measurements. If they tested 100 Panasonic 700U's and 100 Pioneer 5080HD's then maybe we can say they are doing something wrong. But with only one unit of each, it makes sense that we see some unexpected results occasionally. At the 42 inch screen size, they did rate the Pioneer PRO-950HD ahead of the Panasonic 42PZ700U which is inline with other reviews.
When it comes to players, it should come as no surprise that most of the players performed identically. We're dealing with digital electronics, and no doubt consumer reports focused their attention to 1080i/p output over HDMI. With digital output, we should reach a point where the video is perfectly transfered off the disc to the TV. The quality of all digital electronics should peak when players start sending the bits correctly. The only variation we should see, in the best players, is the quality of the deinterlacing and scaling performance. We may also see some variation in the component video quality as that requires digital to analog conversion. Despite this, most professional reviews focus on the HDMI output of high definition content. Take a look at Thomas Norton's review of the Panasonic DMP-BD30 on ultimateavmag.com. He looks exclusively at the video over HDMI, which is totally uninteresting.
People like to bash on Consumer Reports because they don't measure up to "Home Theater Magazine" and the like. However, when you actually look at the data, it is fairly consistent with other reviewers.
Here's some data to backup my unit to unit variation theory explaining how Consumer Reports rated the Kuro below the Panasonic.
Take a look at Peter Putman's reviews of the Pioneer Pro-110FD at
http://www.hdtvexpert.com/pages_b/PioneerPRO-110FD.html
Compare this with Geoffrey Morrison's review of the same TV at
http://www.hometheatermag.com/plasmadisplays/907kuro/
and pay special attention to the contrast ratio measurements. Morrison's ANSI contrast measurement for this set is approximately 3X greater than Putman's value. Morrison also measured a 4X darker black level.
Of course there are confounders here. The same instruments were not used by both reviewers, the calibrations the performed were not identical, their methods of measurement (for the black level) may differ, etc.. However, these numbers aren't even close so this may say something. In fact, if you compare Putnum's number with the numbers he gets he shows in his Panasonic 50PZ77U review, these two sets look more comparable.
The bottom line is that unit to unit variation in these products can be significant and may be the cause for the poor Pioneer 5080HD result in the CR reviews.