Not too long ago we asked you
what the best Blu-ray player was and as many would expect one of the hottest answers was the
PS3. At $400, with the PS3's ability to be updated to support just about any new Blu-ray feature, it seems like the best value; but there's one thing about the PS3 that is often overlooked. No, we're not talking about the lack of IR remote (easily solved with a $15 adapter) we're talking about the limited audio codec support. Sure, the PS3 supports Doby TrueHD decoding internally, but it lacks a big one,
DTS HD. For whatever reason, the PS3
does not support bitstream output -- no, not even
TrueHD -- only PCM, and since there's no DTS HD decoder built in, that leaves out one of the hottest new codecs. Sure, only
~15% of Blu-ray titles even include a DTS HD sound track, but judging by the upcoming releases from Sony, Disney, Fox, New Line and Lionsgate, we'd say this number is going to get a lot bigger. At this point, the best option is the
Panasonic DMP-BD30 and a newer HDMI
1.3a A/V receiver with all the decoders built in, but who knows, maybe
Sony will figure out a way to upgrade the PS3.
posted Jan 2nd 2008 10:47AM
well guys there one major issue here. the picture says it all:
http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phot0010jl4.jpg
http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phot0012ep0.jpg
You really should try to read more.
That bitstream output is limited to Dolby Digital and DTS, so no Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD.
whether its HD or Blu, I won't get it unless it has 5.1 analog out and internal decoding. Yes, high bitrates and lossless soundtracks are great, but most people i know arent even hearing it, making it a moot point. Old receivers and optical/dig.coax cables. And ALOT of people have players and arent hearing what they think they are... placebo effect?
I can't hear. Did you say something? =)
Silicon Image has confirmed the PS3's HDMI transmitter chip does not support bit-stream output of next gen audio codecs.
You mean the PS3 isn't absolutely perfect at everything anyone ever thought of?
No way! I refuse to beleive it! Not true!
Ben, are you a hater or something?
How fast is the so called best panasonic BD30K? My PS3 is damn fast. Load times remote times etc. Freakin fast, FAST. Paired with my Onkyo 605 the only thing it can't do for me is order a pizza. Rumour has it that's coming too.
actually the PS3 can order a pizza. Open the browser go to Pizzahut.com and tell them what you'd like!
Jeez Ben, you're such an obvious HD-DVD fanboy!!!
:)
Ben, ... you're dumb lol. I know what you're doing man, quit stirrin' the pot! ;)
I agree with Dan he must be a PS3 hater give it time Ben they come out with updates all the time which it's just a matter of time before another update will come out with some other fix or add-on.
Yes, but when all blu-ray movies will have their soundtracks authored advanced being able to output bitstream is useless.
Hopefully Sony will upgrade the players with DTS HD MA. It's possible.
Think of it this way, in 2 years Panasonic is going to completely forget about the DMP-BD30 but Sony sure won't forget about the PS3. I doubt the DMP-BD30 will be a profile 2.0 player but the PS3 will.
I have a 1.3a receiver (Denon 2808) and as long as the PS3 can send the HDMA stream via HDMI I'm all set....now if they'd just DO it.....
FYI guys, this is an excellent post that brings out the technical deficiencies of the PS3. I bought a PS3 even knowing this "BITSTREAM" issue and i returned it after demoing a few games and playing movies from blu-ray and standard def. The PS3 is flawless in video performance - no stone unturned there.The problem is this - Sony has hired Silicon Image to make the HDMI 1.3 chipset for the PS3. It ends with the 4 digits 9132. The HDMI 1.3 chipset used in the Panny player ends in 9134 which Silicon Image has proven in full capacity that the bitstream of HD audio codecs are possible as i experimented with it myself after buying a capable receiver and the DMP-BD30. But nowhere has Sony published the specs for the 9132 and early indications are that the bitstream is not possible. HDMI 1.3 spec mandates bitstream audio and if the PS3 cant do it then its not a HDMI 1.3 player!.....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI......and read the spec on HDMI 1.3 and get back to me....Sometime it makes sense to read the details before posting stuff. And for those of you who is looking for a HDMI 1.3 cable look no further than a Philips or a Belkin. I bought a HDMI 1.3 Belkin from Sams' club - a 6 foot cable for $21!!.....Walmart is selling a Philips HDMI 1.3a cable - 6 foot for $25!....ONLY BUY THAT....DONT WASTE YOUR MONEY ON THAT HUMONGOUS SOUNDING CABLE MAKING COMPANY.....its ALL DIGITAL....THERE IS NO INTERFERENCE ISSUES WITH DIGITAL!..bye bye ANALOG.
You paid $21 for a freaking cable!!! Go to monoprice and get it for $5-6. I have bought 7 HDMI cables from them and everyone of them have been perfect.
I agree - i bought my 1.3a cables from Mono cheap cheap cheap !!
see the 2nd reply in the post
LOL @ 1st reply: I got my HDMI cable free after rebate from TigerDirect! (I know they suck with rebates but I got my $4 rebate. Who cares?)
Well, IMHO, one huge saving grace is that the PS3 meets all requirements for BD Profile 2.0! So... future ready is a big advantage, especially with the awesome price (oh and it also PLAYS GAMES!)
what games?
http://www.metacritic.com/games/ps3/
Those games, genius.
You forgot the other reason: It's still a "game machine" and there are some who just won't have a *sniff* game machine *sniff* in among their kit.
yeah and plenty of reasons the xbox 360 add on isnt the best hd dvd player or the 360 isnt even a good dvd player... lets start a topic on that and see how people get.
Thing is, nobody (in their right mind at least) says the 360 add-on is the best HD-DVD player. Plenty of people say the PS3 is the best Blu-ray player. Not exactly the same thing.
The PS3 doesn't have sound card hardware, all audio processing is done on the Cell. They can easily and readily release an update to do bitstream, DTS HD, the whole shebang. Since all audio processing is done in software, the PS3 potentially supports codecs that aren't even released yet. Thus, the best player on the market.
Can you provide a link to prove that any of that is true?
Oh, it's true. They added PiP in software; this is easier.
It is NOT possible to upgrade codec support on the PS3.
Sorry, ol' boy, but I completely disagree.
Obviously, people who own PS3s use it either for gaming or for "basic" BD viewing. I would think that only a tiny percentage of BD owners really give a hoot about those "premium" codecs and that the majority of people are more than satisfied with DD 5.1 and DTS. Quite frankly, *I* am also happy with DD 5.1 and DTS over optical/HDMI. To get any more channels would require a new receiver purchase, but I'd rather put that to a BD player or more HD DVD media.
I don't think it takes a stretch of the imagination to realize that the VAST majority of people own either a 5.1 (or lower) system or use the speakers in their TV. For these people (myself included) the PS3 is the perfect choice. Not only is it upgradeable but it more than satisfies the basic needs for BD viewing and it's a gaming console, whereas the DMP-BD30 is about the same price for just a player that most likely can't be upgraded to profile 2.0.
Sure, it would be nice to have a player with ALL of the bells and whistles, but that only matters if you really have a need for all of those bells and whistles. Quite frankly the PS3 is still the "best option" for most people out there, and I would think that that includes most people on EngadgetHD as well.
Now, the question come down to HOW the PS3 processes its codecs. Is it done through hardware or software? If it's software, then you'd think that adding another codec would be simple, which would potential make the question of TrueHD and DTS HD a moot point. If it's hardware, is the chip circuitry upgradeable?
Regardless, I'd still take a non-40GB PS3 over a standalone player given the current prices for each.
well said indeed.
It has been confirmed that the HDMI chip in the PS3 does not support bitstream output.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/ht-hardware-high-definition/257408-caution-hdmi-1-3-one-chip-obsolete-one-has-advanced-audio-capability.html
Sure, it's possible that they could do the decoding internally, but right now it doesn't and when it can we'll cover it, and for now the Panny is the most capable player. Of course that could change, which is why I stated such in the post.
Ben, your post shows how ill informed the public and the media is on the new HD media codecs and capabilities.
If you do your homework (which I agree IS the problem), you would realize that you don't NEED HDMI 1.3. You can stream LPCM from the PS3 to your AV receiver. Using that method allows all HDMI receivers to receive up to 7.1 channels of sound in an UNCOMPRESSED format!
When you pair that with the fact that the PS3 can be upgraded to decode more codecs - the PS3 is one of the best BD players out now!
-KLH
You either didn't read my post or you didn't comprehend it, either way you are wrong.
Bottom line, which is not open for debate.
The PS3 CANNOT decode DTS HD or DTS HD MA or output it via a bitstream so something else can decode it.
This could change with an update, which is why I put the last line in my post, but for now this is true and utill it changes the Panny is a better Blu-ray player for those with the proper AV receiver.
Ben, I think you're getting some push back because of your use of "best player". "Best" is purely subjective.
What's best for each person is just that -- best *for each person*. To some, the PS3 is the best option. To others, the Panny is the best option. Just because one can do things that the other can't doesn't mean that one can be put in the blanket category of "best".
Now I see that you're qualifying your statement with "for those with the proper AV receiver." Well, now THAT changes the whole scope of your article to being the "best" only for those who have audio equipment with all of the bells and whistles, which most do not. In that case it's reasonable to assume that those who have the bells and whistles for audio equipment will want the bells and whistles in the player to match. But without that qualification you're making it seem as those the PS3 is not the "best" for everyone, which is kind of a silly statement.
Just my observation. You've been bitten by this in the past. I'll chock it up to you not having ample time for the heavy, New Year's Eve partying to get out of your system. ;) (Kidding.)
So what happens when they DO upgrade the PS3 via firmware to include those additional audio codec formats? Then the PS3 is the best again? I would argue that the PS3 is the best player cause the Panny will most likely NOT get the upgrade and firmware support that the PS3 will get in its lifetime. I don't have one yet (waiting for the dual shock sixaxis to be included in box) but my money will be going for a PS3 as a BD player with the reasonable expectation that it will eventually support the additional codecs... it HAS to!
I agree to the poster above, this is a very subjective thing. The PS3 is the "best" player for 95% of the people wanting a BD player. I'm sure that same amount do not have equipment to take advantage of the higher end codecs, and many that do will be satisfied with Dolby TrueHD and lossless. PS3 doesn't support DTS HD? boo hoo.. one tiny asterisk in a sea of advantages...
The easy update of firmware is more important than the current lack of DTS-HD-Ma. Also, only New Line and Fox have used DTS-HD-Ma. Not a single Warner, Paramount (the 32 titles), Disney or Sony movie uses DTS-HD-Ma. While I really wish the PS3 does the decoding (mainly for Die Hard 4.0, X-Men 3, Day after tomorrow), I won't side with Panny 30. First of all, without internal decoders, the 5.1 analog outs on this player is useless.
With PS3 converting everything to PCM, you only need a HDMI 1.1 receiver not the fancy new HDMI 1.3 (only Pioneer, Denon, Marantz and Onkyo have them). If you have a H/K 745, 645, NAD 785, 775, you still need PCM. I would rather have PCM than bitstream.
So, my bet is on PS3 eventually getting DTS-HD-Ma. One more reason for me to rewatch Die Hard 4.0. Hurray!!
PS3 has had following features at release time
1) Internal Dolby True HD decoding
2) BD 1.0 profile
3) SD-DVD playback at 480p
4) SACD support
5) CD support
6) PCM 7.1 support at upto 24 bit/192kHz
7) AVCHD support (playback AVCHD files from DVD)
Since I bought my PS3 (Feb 2007), the PS3 has gained the following movie/music features
1) BD 1.1 profile
2) SD-DVD scaling to 1080p
3) Bitmap 1, 2, 3 for SACD and CD
4) Upscaling of CDs to 88.2 and 176.4 kHz
5) 1080p24 Hz support
6) Superwhite and RGB full/limited options
7) Media server support
8) Divx support
With just these upgrades, the PS3 has become a great machine with zero additional cost to the user. It still has plenty of horsepower for the following
1) Profile 2.0 support
2) DTS-HD-Ma decoding to PCM
3) Full MKV file playback support
The only thing that might lack due to hardware limitation is the HDMI bitstream support for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD-Ma. Since these require additional investment on capable receivers, I would rather have the PCM conversion internally. My H/K AVR 745 rocks with PCM 5.1 and I am not going to replace it just so I get to bitstream advanced codecs.
Why would they add MKV support? so you can watch pirated HD DVD/BDs?
Ben is right. PS3's lack of output and decoding is a huge handicap. I have even considered selling my PS3 so I can buy the Panny for its bitstream output. Sony needs to get it together since studios are so eager to use DTS-HD MA and HR.
I first want to point out this article is about The BEST Blu-ray Player, NOT The Blu-ray Player normal people buy because of what John B. said above. IT's all about Specs, not Popularity.
@Kuromiko....
"
...the PS3 potentially supports codecs that aren't even released yet. Thus, the best player on the market."
Well since it doesnt have said codecs then it isnt. The panasonic BD30K is the best player on the market because it comes pre-installed with 1.1 standard, no downloading needed and it can read DTS HD. Also I want to point out something, there isnt any other codecs DTS HD is the pure sound, the exact sound in which it was recorded. So I don't know what codec sounds you're talking about. Now if you're talking about similar codecs that arent out yet like 7.1 THX Master, well first Lucas has to get it out, second there is no real standard for THX on theater systems if it is then its god damn expensive. Luckily my reciever can imulate 7.1 THX, but seriously there isn't anymore codecs that are coming out in the future. You can't make the actual sound, sound better then it already is.
If it doesnt have it, then it isnt the best player. Talk to me when they do aloow DTS HD, then I'll take it at the best blu-ray player, but till then... its only second.
Then that all comes down to what your definition of "best" is. The "best" based on a list of specifications is NOT necessarily the "best" when it comes to what people want. It doesn't matter if the Panny player is "best" if it's not what people necessarily want and therefore don't buy. It's not going to matter a hill of beans to say, "Yeah, it was the best player -- but hardly anybody bought it."
@Killer:
Now, no, it doesn't. In 2 or 3 years your player will be far out of date while the PS3 will be completely up to spec.
The ability to improve beyond the current standalone players is its greatest strength as a Blu-Ray player, which nothing else on the market can touch at this point. You can go ahead and ignore that fact if you want, but it ultimately means PS3 owners are much more futureproofed due to the flexibility of the firmware.
Feel free to ignore all the other meriting features of the PS3 that standalone players don't have, such as mp3 and video file (MPEG / 2 / 4 / DivX) playback.
I think a dedicated blu ray player could in theory be better than a PS3, but the price is excellent considering the device is a multimedia hub and console rolled into one. I do expect that blu ray player costs will continue to sink and there will be a lot cheaper players than a PS3 to choose from. There are already some down to $300 and they'll be down to $150 by christmas.
maybe is not ???????
but soon has all the potentials to be the best and stay on top.
Every software update pushes the PS3 in front of the competition....how many other BD machines can make that claim...and help cure disease (folding@home) too?
Where can I get a Bluetooth to IR adapter for $15?
ps3 all way
2.0 profile ready
Bit stream output is USELESS:
Soundtracks on HD DVD (and eventually on Blu-ray, when it goes interactive) operate very differently than they do on DVD. With current DVDs, you need entirely separate soundtracks for things like foreign languages and filmmaker's commentary. This is actually a pretty wasteful approach.
With HD DVD, soundtracks can be authored in the 'Advanced' mode, which allows multiple content streams to be live-mixed (mixed in real time). You don't need another soundtrack for foreign languages. Just swap out the English centre channel stream with one of the foreign centre channel streams. You don't need another soundtrack for commentary. Just reduce the level of the main soundtrack and mix in the commentary stream. Same with button sounds and other interactive features, like picture-in-picture.
Just like editing the document requires unzipping the file first, doing any of this live-mixing to the soundtrack requires decoding it to linear PCM first. This is why it has to be done in the player. They're not going to transmit every option to your receiver, just one soundtrack. You choose what you want to hear, it is mixed in the player (i.e. the soundtrack you want to hear is literally built in real time inside the player) and transmitted as a final mix to your receiver.
Current HDMI allows 8 channels of 96/24 PCM to be transmitted (more than enough resolution for any soundtrack), but not the new codecs in their native form. When HDMI 1.3 arrives, it will allow the new codecs mentioned above to be transmitted in their native bitstream, but only if they were authored in 'Basic' mode (no interactivity). If the soundtrack was authored in Advanced mode, then it cannot be transmitted in undecoded form; decoding in the player is mandatory because of live mixing.
So far, all HD DVD soundtracks have been authored in Advanced mode. Which means nothing will change when new receivers arrive on the market. Despite having HDMI 1.3 transmission and decoders built into the receiver, decoding will still have to take place in the player.
Currently, Blu-ray discs are authored in Basic mode, since they haven't gotten interactivity yet. As soon as BD Java is up and working, they'll all be authored in Advanced mode too. At that point, what are the decoders in the receivers going to do? Decode the relatively few BD titles that were released before interactivity? Most of those titles will be re-issued anyway
Hmmm... that pretty much destroys any argument for bitstreaming. As long as the PS3 can eventually do DTS HD via a firmware upgrade and send it out via PCM all is good. Personally, I think that will indeed be added at some point. And when the PS3 is upgraded to profile 2.0 the Panny will be left behind.
Whoever wrote this doesn't know what they are talking about.
"So far, all HD DVD soundtracks have been authored in Advanced mode. Which means nothing will change when new receivers arrive on the market. Despite having HDMI 1.3 transmission and decoders built into the receiver, decoding will still have to take place in the player.
Currently, Blu-ray discs are authored in Basic mode, since they haven't gotten interactivity yet. As soon as BD Java is up and working, they'll all be authored in Advanced mode too. At that point, what are the decoders in the receivers going to do? Decode the relatively few BD titles that were released before interactivity? Most of those titles will be re-issued anyway "
What you just wrote is plain wrong. I have the A35 HD DVD player going into an onkyo 705 and can assure i bitstream TRue HD and DD+ on every HD DVD even ones that are adavanced authoured. Just because a disc is advanced authoured doesn't mean they can't be bitstreamed. The only way advanced authoured content is affected when bitstreaming is all the clicks and sounds that are part of real time mixing like pip commentary are not transferred. Only the True hd and DD+ tracks can be heard on advanced authored discs whem the player is bitstreaming to the reciever over hdmi 1.3. Also if i want to hear the pip commentary or the clicks of an advanced authored menu i just switch the output to lpcm.
I agree with DrXym. The PS3 saves a lot of living room space as an MP3 media library holding most of our music collection, Music CD player, gaming console, Digiital photo library, web browser. My PS3 has a single optical audio cable going out to a 5.1 surround system. It sounds incredible.
I'm an average punter and geeky technobabble aside, I reckon that for the majority of people the PS3's deep, rich and immersive surround sound output will be impressive and have a well priced 'WOW' factor.
So no, It's not the best Blu-Ray player, it's more!