How to actually use Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted January 22nd 2008 12:00PM
posted January 22nd 2008 12:00PM
With HD DVD and Blu-ray also came the ultimate audio options in a time when convenience trumps quality in most of the audio world. While SACD and DVD-Audio are all but a bust, audiophiles can turn to HD DVD and Blu-ray for the ultimate audio experience. But even if you aren't an audiophile, it's still worth it to many to take advantage of the master quality audio available on the HD discs that you've already paid for. Unfortunately, it isn't as easy as it used to be, and after realzing how much confusion there was surrounding these next-gen codecs, we decided to try to help clear up the confusion. So if you want to know how to take advantage of everything on the discs you already own, but don't know why Toslink doesn't cut it anymore (and what's so special about about HDMI 1.3), then read on, will ya? Starting with DVD, we had to start using Toslink instead of the old trusty red and white analog cables, but with HD DVD and Blu-ray, it's no longer that easy. As great as Toslink is, it's only capable of carying 1.5Mbps of data, which limits you to either lossy Dolby Digital, DTS, or two channel PCM (uncompressed). So in order to take advantage of the new codecs, we have to leave Toslink behind and move on, or back depending on your configuration. Notably, there are a few ways that you can utilize the latest codecs, but the way you do it depends on your equipment and preferences. The two main options are to either decompress within the HD movie player or in your AV receiver. Assuming your equipment supports both -- although most do not -- you can join a thread at AVS to debate the merits of each, but since most folks don't have a choice, we'll cover the pair here.
The new codecs
The difference between the next-gen audio codecs is way beyond the scope of this feature, but to lay them out there to see if your player has support, here goes. Dolby Digital Plus (next generation of Dobly Digital, still lossy), PCM (uncompressed lossless, think CD) Dolby TrueHD (Dolby's lossless audio) DTS-HD HR (next generation of DTS, still lossy) and finally DTS-HD MA (lossless version of DTS). Basically DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, and PCM are all exact copies of the studio masters and arguably the same -- we're going to completely avoid the entire sample rate discussion here, sorry.
The new connections
You have three options for connectors that will allow you to take advantage of all the next-gen codecs; HDMI, HDMI 1.3, and discrete analog cables. The benefit of using HDMI over analog cables is obviously the digital transmission, but also, less wires as you can use one cable instead of six (5.1) or eight (7.1). In regards to audio, the advantage of HDMI 1.3 (preferably 1.3a to help solve possible lip sync issues) is its ability to carry compressed audio (aka bitstream) -- we'll get into why later -- rather than the previous version which could only carry uncompressed audio (LPCM).
Decompressing in the player
Home theater amplifiers don't evolve at the same rate as other electronics, and usually an amp that was good five years ago is still good today. So we understand that people can be hesitant to replace their AV receiver just to listen to the latest codecs. Luckily, most older receivers still have HDMI (pre 1.3) or discrete analog inputs (6 or 8). For this reason, having an HD movie player that can decode internally is advantageous, as it will handle the latest codecs and allow your older amp to just take the signal and amplify it for your speakers. The other advantage to decoding in the player is that if discs were authored with the advanced authoring method, the player can mix interactive feature's sounds with the regular audio from the movie -- things like beeps from the menus and directors commentary can fall into this category. If you decode in your AV receiver, you won't be able to take advantage of the additional sounds.
HD DVD options
A3 (DD plus and TrueHD) HDMI only
A30 (DD plus and TrueHD) HDMI only
A35 (DD plus and TrueHD) both, but 5.1 only
Blu-ray options
PS3 (DD plus, TrueHD and PCM) HDMI (This is correct, don't even think about commenting if you disagree)
Samsung BD-P1400 (All, but DTS-HD MA) both, but 5.1 only
Sony BDP-S500 (all codecs except DTS-HD MA) both, but 5.1 only
Pioneer BDP-95HD (all codecs except DTS-HD MA) both, but analog is 5.1 only
AV Receivers
If it has HDMI or analog inputs, the chances are very good that it'll work when the player is doing the decoding.
Decompressing in the AV receiver
If you have the latest AV receiver with HDMI 1.3, you can set your player to send the compressed signal (aka bitstream) to it and let it do the heavy work. Both your HD movie player and your AV receiver have to support each individual codec though. So just because your player will output every codec via bitstream, doesn't mean your receiver can decode them. Although you can't take advantage of advanced authored movies, the advantage to decoding in the AV receiver is that you usually have access to more advanced sound processing. While equipment varies, in most cases the only way to take advantage of the auto level and delay adjustments is to decode in the AV receiver. If you are in a dedicated home theater this can be less important, but since many living rooms prevent optimal speaker placement, having the ability to adjust the level of a speaker or add a delay to simulate distance can be critical.
HD DVD options
A35 (all codecs)
XA2 (all codecs)
Blu-ray options
Samsung BD-P1400 (all codecs)
Panasonic BDP-BD30K (all codecs)
Pioneer BDP-95HD (all codecs)
Sony BDP-S500 (all codecs except DTS-HD MA)
AV Receivers
Onkyo TX-SR605 and up (all codecs)
Yamaha RX-V1800 and up (all codecs)
Pioneer VSX-91TXH and up (all codecs)
Sony STR-DG2100 and up (all codecs)
Denon AVR-2808CI and up (all codecs)
So there you go, simple right? All you need is all new equipment -- that may or may not be clearly advertised -- connected with either HDMI or discrete analog cables, then an hour or so to read the manual, and you're all set. Seriously, even if you have the latest and greatest connected via HDMI 1.3, you may still have spend some time to ensure the player is set to output the optimal signal for your receiver and then decide what that signal is. Yeah we know, it's complicated, but at least we gave you a head start.
A special thanks to Tyler at Format War Central for helping figure this out.
These lists are not comprehensive and because of confusing terminology (and downright inaccurate documentation) it can be very difficult to tell what equipment supports what. So if you have first hand experience with any of our examples (or others) we'd love your help to make sure our lists are accurate.
Ben,
That's because the PS3 is handling all the audio processing?
If that's the case, it sounds like the receiver's processing is bypassed and if so, why wouldn't any receiver with HDMI inputs work, regardless of built-in codec support? Or, conversely, why can't the PS3 just pass the info and let the receiver handle the processing, like for DTS-MA?
Or are you saying that both the player and receiver need to have the proper codec support in order for it to work.
This is where I'm confused.
Rip,
If you want to decode in the AVR, then the player has to support bitstream out of the codec and the AVR has to be able to decode it. This is essentially what HDMI 1.3 is about.
If you are going to decode in the player (the PS3's only option in regards to next-gen) then the AVR only need support HDMI (pre 1.3 works) and multi-channel PCM audio via the HDMI (most do).
Ah ok, now I think I get it.
Sounds like I'll be ok with a new receiver, with the exception of DTS-MA.
Now I just need to figure out if its worth upgrading my receiver for these new audio codecs... I'm still pretty happy with my current receiver. Well that and the fact that I blew a hole in my HT budget when I bought a Kuro ;)
Thanks for the responses (thanks to John too).
Rip,
Many believe that DTS-HD support is a firmware or two away, but we have been able to get Sony to confirm or deny it.
Experience with the following:
HD-DVD: Toshiba A2
Blu-Ray: Panasonic BDP-BD30K
Receiver: Denon AVR-3808CI
Both connected via HDMI, 1.2 for the HDDVD player, 1.3a for the Blu-Ray. Codecs are decoded on the HDDVD player, Denon shows "MultiChannel Input" on the display where it would normally show Dolby Digital, DTS, ect. Blu-Ray player works flawlessly as well. I have tested the LPCM which shows up as "MultiChannel Input", same as the HDDVD player. The difference is that when bitstreaming a DTS MA, or Dolby TruHD track to the Denon, it shows DTS MA or Dolby TrueHD depending on what stream it receiving. Word of warning, as the articles says, the use of secondary audio and bitstream decoding will cause the player to down-convert the codec, so it gives you the option to disable it, which I would recommend, who cares about button clicks :) Any way my experience, your millage may vary.
This may be a silly question, but I have a PS3 and a Yamaha V1600, so the only thing it doesn't have is 1080p and I just got a Samsung 4671, so I have to bypass the receiver to get 1080p to the TV, otherwise it'd be 1080i. But by doing that, I lose the ability to get 7ch audio from the PS3 by using Toslink. I really don't want to have to ebay my receiver just to keep 1080p and get 7ch PCM. Is there anything I can do? HDMI can't split audio to one device and video to another can it?
Ryan,
This is going to sound funny, but you may not be benefiting from the 1080p output. Here's how you can tell.
Order the HQV test disc and with your player set at 1080i use the test patterns to see if your TV properly de-interlaces the 1080i to 1080p. If it passes the tests on the disc, then there is no difference between sending your TV a 1080i vs 1080p.
If your TV fails the test then yeah, you'll have to upgrade your AVR. FYI, my Pioneer PDP-6010FD passes them.
Ben,
Great article. I have a question about why my PS3 during playing back of BD movies the audio drops out during load scenes. I use the Toslink cable to my Sony STR-DE885. Also my DTS HD MA BDs don't play surround at all only 2.1 channels.
Im confused. I have a PS3 and an Onkyo TX-SR605 which are connected via HDMI. If my receiver is displaying multichannel does that mean Im getting Dolby Digital HD. The Blu-Rays I have that support Dolby Digital HD are 300 and Superbad.
That sounds like you have it connected correctly, but since I don't have a PS3 or a 605 I don't know for sure.
it's probably set up correctly, but make sure your PS3 is set to LPCM, not bitstream (for audio output over HDMI).
to test it, put in 300 and start the movie, then hit square. you can now select between dolby digital and dolby true HD during playback. the latter should sound clearer and more detailed. the difference is pretty clear on my denon 3806 and pinnacle towers.
Ben, good article, I think it will help lots of folks out. One thing though, I know you've addressed this in the comments section but I think you should spell it out in your article: tell people with PS3's to not use the bitstream option...if someone has a receiver that does all the new codecs their instinct is to use bitstream...i know multiple people (a/v savvy people too) who make this mistake, and you've indirectly covered it by not including PS3 in the decompressing in the A/V receiver part, but I would spell it out.
Yeah you're probably right, but I have pointed it out in two previous posts, that were very controversial and I was trying to keep the PS3 fanboys from attacking me in this post. Normally I welcome their hate, but not on a post like this.
Perhaps we just need a completely separate article for the PS3 explaining what the settings do exactly and which ones to pick with different equipment. The manual is very useless as far as this goes. Also setting up the various audio formats in the PS3 for what your a/v receiver can accept can be quite daunting, most people have no idea what any of that means. Now we just need someone with a PS3 and all the knowledge to write such a thing.
wow, i had only heard of dd truehd prior to this article. this makes my head spin. are consumers really going to catch on to this? yea right! my electrical engineering degree doesnt help me understand all this. i will stick with my dvd player with hdmi and optical out to the receiver w/ regular old dolby digital(dts if i'm lucky).
What about HTPCs?
There is still no bitstream solution at all. So there is no way to get your receiver to decode any of the lossless codecs if you have an HTPC. There is a new motherboard chipset from Intel, the G35 which can do 7.1 LPCM over HDMI. Problem is, there are only 2 pieces of software that can play Blu-ray and HD-DVD. One is Power DVD Ultra, unfortunately it downsamples everything to 16/48 before sending it to the driver. The new player, ArcSoft Total Media Theatre does not downsample, but it also does not work with G35 motherboards.
The only other way to get the new codecs from an HTPC are analog connections. As previously stated, ArcSoft is the only player that won't downsample your audio.
May want to add the Panasonic DMP-10A to that list. It has 7.1 analog outputs that can decode and output everything except DTS-HD MA. It can decode everything except DTS-HD MA and output as LPCM over HDMI. And as a bonus, it also plays DVD-Audio disc.
An article regarding the PS3 audio output modes alone would be useful. I have a PS3 connected to an Onkyo 805 which contains the DTS-MA codec. I rented Live Free or Die Hard which only has DTS-MA as a lossless audio option. After choosing the DTS-MA track and with the PS3 set to PCM output the receiver reports 5 channel PCM received but I can not determine if it is lossless. With the PS3 set to bitstream output the receiver reports DTS but I cannot determine if the decoded DTS is lossless.
According to AVSforum posts and other articles I believe the receiver is receiving a degraded version of the DTS-MA stream but I can't be sure. Does anyone know how I can make this determination myself? From the little bit I heard the movie still sounds pretty good but I returned the movie and did not watch it. I plan to wait for this non-existant PS3 firmware upgrade before I watch any movies that only have DTS-MA as a lossless audio option because as I watch I'll only be wondering how much better the movie could sound. And yes I know this is pretty pathetic.
Also, I'd like to add that there is currently no way to get full DD TrueHD or DTS HD MA out of a computer. The closest thing we can hope for is the release of the Auzen X-Tension HDMI 1.3 (will only work with the X-Meridian or the X-Fi Prelude sound cards) later this year.
Not entirely true. Read my comment.
@Mikee: this is exactly why we need this article...it's all too confusing and the manuals are useless. I have the exact same setup as you, same receiver. It is my understanding that you are not getting the true DTS MA track since the PS3 doesn't decode it...and with bitstream I think you are getting a version that only has the old DTS components but not the HD MA portions. It does suck to have a receiver that can decode that format but not be able to use it. I don't understand why it's so hard for them to make the PS3 just bitstream all formats out...I mean really, doesn't that involve just not doing anything to it and just passing it along??
The chip that the PS3 uses for HDMI simply doesn't support bitstream output. For years the HDMI specification didn't support bitstream and this functionality is one of the main reasons for HDMI 1.3. The problem is that the PS3 came out about the same time as HDMI 1.3 and while the PS3 does support deep color, it doesn't support bitstream output.
The chips are readily available now, so I'm not sure why the newer models don't support it.
When you select bitstream on a PS3, it warns you that you are reducing capability. I forget the exact wording, but clearly PS3's should NOT be set to bitstream?
Good info, thank you!
If the ps3 chip does not support bitstream audio output via hdmi 1.3 do you know what it is outputting when it is set to bitstream and a dts-ma audio track is selected through the movie menus.
My receivier says it is decoding dts neo:6. I took a closer look at my receiver display and see a separate indicator light for DTS MSTR, this did not light so I guess this is my indication that the receiver is not decoding lossless audio.
I remember in some of my prior reading that the DTS MA track format was designed to somehow contain a lesser form of the DTS track. I do not remember the details but I wonder if that is what is being decoded by the receiver.
But my main question is: If the receiver is not receiving PCM audio or bitstream audio what is it receiving?
And thankyou for the information. It is comforting to know that I am not the only one in this situation.
The benifit of DTS-HD is that it falls back to DTS. So since the PD3 won't output DTS-HD you just get DTS, which is way better than nothing. It's referred to as "DTS Core."
It is receiving either PCM or bitstream. If the DTS lights up then it's receiving a bitstream of DTS.
Wow, I had absolutely no idea audio was so complicated now! I'm going to have to go home and take a hard look at my HT setup.
I'm have a really bad feeling that what's outlined here is going to hurt my wallet something fierce.
Thanks Ben. Since the shortcoming is in the chip the PS3 uses I guess I can forget about any chance of a firmware update to fix this...all we can hope for is decoding on the player side for the PS3. Or when prices drop enough Ill get a BD player that can stream everything since my receiver can handle the rest...
wow, this article has really helped me. i did the same mistake with having my ps3 bitstream the audio to the tx sr705, because I thought it would send the uncompressed true hd signal to the AVR tp decode it there. So I learned I bought the onkyo rceiver for nothing, but nevertheless i like the thx sign on it. i'll just go for lpcm then.
Which all goes to prove what an amazing spec/cost bargain the 3rd gen HD DVD Toshiba platers are - especially the HD A/EP35.