While we've become accustomed to Blu-ray players being released every six months, it's a little ridiculous when we're forced to
wait for a new player longer than it's on the market. Eventually we expect the cycle to slow down -- like when BD Live players are out for example -- and many believed that the Samsung BD-UP5000 could be one of those players based on
promises when announced. Once you have an Ethernet port for internet content, REON video processing, internal decoding and bitstream support for every codec, discrete analog output, as well as HDMI 1.3, what else could possibly warrant a mid year revamp? We suspect the problem is that
the player isn't delivering, and on top of that, we don't think it's Samsung's fault. You see, just like the LG
BH200, the
BD-UP5000 is based on
Broadcom's Reference design BCM97440, and the word on the street is that it isn't ever going to deliver. So it'd make sense that Sammy would change the platform for one that's actually able to get the job done. So yeah, this Broadcom bit is just speculation, but we did contact the outfit to figure out what the deal was, and while it was very responsive at first, as soon as we asked about the troubles with the BCM97400, it must'a lost our email address (or maybe its servers have been down for a week). The good news is that
Samsung doesn't see the
BD-UP5500 as a replacement, and promises a suitable replacement for the high-end dual-format customer in the second half of '08.
**Update** Samsung says that the date it'll be discontinued is subject to change.
posted Jan 23rd 2008 12:05PM
And so it begins. Enjoy, Blutards. I'd love to say I hate to say I told you so, but I'd be lying.
Let the flaming begin.
what does that statement mean, enjoy Blutards? Are you really that childish that you insult other people for selecting a different format than you do? My 9 year old son talk that way, lol. Besides, this is a dual-format player, so if anyone was, as you seem to indicate, stupid for buying this, I am sure 50% of them were hd-dvd owners.
Why not grow up and respect other people's choices, unless you really are 9 years old. By the way, if you feel anyone who bought a blu-ray player is a blu-tard, then the blutards will have 80% of Hollywood content to choose from. I guess we're all stupid huh?
They have to update it because it is no longer BR compliant. This is the future we're all headed towards, which is why some of us chose the more consumer friendly option in HD DVD. My comment was less aimed at logical people who chose BR for a variety of reasons, and more towards those illogical fanboys (or Blutards) that both don't know limits and swear that their format is the second coming of Christ. I won't miss an opportunity to point out why BR and $ony spell the end for HDM.
@mntwister
You're saying blu-ray fans don't say childish things? You're lying. Just re-read one of the other HD DVD vs Blu-ray posts again.
"Blutards" and "$ony"... wow, aren't you clever.
One manufacturer with a history of problems and you conflate that issue to include all blu-ray. You're a pathetic bomb thrower....
OK logic and sanity, game over; JimC is here. You don't have to go home, but you sure as hell can't stay here.
You are one pretty kewl dude. So l337!!
HDDVD is the rawker!!
Bootard is the suxxors!!!
God why will this format war not end??? It will be so nice when these children (BD fanboys I am looking at you too) go back to arguing if Superman could beat up Spiderman or whose dad could win in a fight.
ProfWho,
I'd love to respond, but I can't read portugese. Can you please translate whatever the hell you just said to english? Thanks.
@Eddie,
Sure thing, I said you and every other fanboy who lobs childish insults over a F'n disc format are beyond childish.
This format war does nothing but hurts HD disc based media. People continuing to support one side or another are pathetic. We should all just hope that someone wins and soon, before we all get screwed with Apple TV like service.
That's where you and I disagree. I didn't just one day wake up and decide Sony was the company I wanted to hate arbitrarily- they have a horrible track record of screwing the consumer. I understand the reasoning, everything proprietary equals higher profit margins but also guaranteed interoperability. The problem is, Sony never manages to make things right once it DOES win the market. I love HDM, but I would say high prices at a time when HDTV adoption is at its highest ever because of its falling prices are the biggest barrier to overcome. Sony and its consortium don't seem to care about consumers that know budgets for their entertainment, and that's one big reason I chose HD DVD. It sucks, from my perspective, that the dazzle of Blu might spell disaster for consumers, from the mess that is HDMI to the profile updates to the new DRM that might render discs unplayable in the future.
Being childish is a response to the frustration from feeling like well thought out comments go ignored, but the fanboyism on both sides generates the best discussions.
@Eddie
I understand your dislike of Sony. I have never been much of a fan of Sony myself (I grew up Nintendo with consoles and I have been burned with a 1st gen PS2 in the past), but I am sure that once a winner emerges the prices will fall and the quality will rise. I just want someone to win. I do not want this to be a repeat of SACD/Audio-DVD where iPod comes in at kills disc based music with lower quality downloadable music.
When it comes to pic quality both formats are pretty much the same and I am sure that the player situation will sort itself out in the Blu camp eventually (if not it will simply cause the disc based media to fail).
I am simply frustrated with looking on the board and seeing people go on and on about how much better they are because they picked blu or red.
I am really sick of seeing people getting excited about the idea of the format war going on even longer. It really needs to end.
I realized a long time ago that the format war is the best thing that ever happened to HDM. The day the format war ends is the day HDM takes a nosedive. If there had been no format war, news outlets would not have buried Warner's announcement somewhere on the business section (as opposed to not mentioning the war at all). The best thing for HDM at this point would be to produce all movies for all formats and let the market decide. This all or nothing gamble both sides are taking I have a feeling will end very badly for all involved- there's a reason the house always wins.
@Eddie
That is some really crazy logic. If there was no format war there wouldn't be any reporting of the format war in the media? That really doesn't make sense. All the reporting on the format war does is remind consumers why they should not buy an HD disc player because there is no unified format.
If there was no format war there would be all the hype above HD movies, like there is about HDTVs. People would be buying the HD movie player with their shinny new flatscreens. They wouldn't be deciding to settle with an upconverting DVD player because they do not want to get stuck with betamax.
@Eddie
Also, I agree, I wish that everyone was purple. It would make buying into HD media a very low risk investment.
The format war is far more than press coverage- it's also word of mouth, which is far better than any press coverage, as any marketeer worth his salary will tell you. It's so crazy to see how energized the bases for either format are here when you contrast it with the general apathy of the general population. A friend of mine has the means and the desire to buy a HDM player, but just never really got around to looking into it until i told him about the format war. And it struck me that after getting an HDTV, spending more to update their movies (and they'll have to, since they blow SD DVDs out of the water), HDM just isn't priority 1.
I have a feeling this war is far from over, and we should all be thankful. The longer we can keep HDM from becoming a footnote in the history of media, the better. Format neutrality is best for studios (sans payoffs), and while that goes hand in hand with a perpetual "war", it will act as a built-in buffer against the apathy of the marketplace at large.
Really have to disagree. If everyone was purple I would totally agree, but the problem is that what is keeping this in such a small niche market is the format war.
I went blu-ray for one big reason, the movies that have been coming out are much more attractive to me than the hd-dvd titles. Other than that, I had no negatives about hd-dvd. I was looking at a combi player since November. But it's at the point now where, since 80% of content will be blu after May-I don't see spending any money on hd-dvd now. I'd rather spend the money on a new receiver with the new audio codecs. And as for 1.1 and 2.0 features, I could care less. A friend showed me some of the hd-dvd extras online and since the PS3 got its 1.1 update have watched the pic-in pic, and I quickly realized...who cares? These features are what hd-dvd people have been saying are so darn awesome that blu-ray owners should feel so bad about not having had them? I mean, really! Just give me the movie in the highest codec with an uncompressed soundtrack and some decent extras (that aren't playing while the movie is showing) and I am very happy. I was quite surprised after hearing all this praise and slamming blu for not having these features from hd-dvd people what a load of crap these features really are so far.
Hd-dvd can have all the extra bells and whistles but now what it has come down too is the 80% of content after May that will NOT play on hd-dvd players, thus whatever they may boast about on these players, it doesn't seem worth the investment with only 2 studios supporting it. And for the next 4 months, according the the release schedule, I can live without Boewolf, Bee Movie and American Gangster. I'd love to have Transformers and Boewolf, but it ain't worth a $200-some player (I would not buy a 1080i player).
See, that's what scares me, MNT. You're buying in to the movies, but you're going to be done wrong when your players slowly become obsolete not by tech advances, but by design. That is a dumb way to do business and I'm really bummed Sony is being rewarded for their business model of higher prices, self obsolescence and rushing product to market in order to compete. As much as I rail against Blu fanboys, what I really fight for is so that all your money (and mine) doesn't go to waste in the name of corporate greed. I see (maybe unfairly) that Sony's greatest boon for BR has been basically a UMD type add on for its flagship PS3, and we can all see how well Sony supported UMD. At this point, I just want to know I'm not crazy and that someone is listening to my concerns (even if everyone else is content to just watch most movies now), and to date, the HD DVD camp has been the most receptive group, and that's why i invested into the format and will continue to do so until BR becomes acceptable in my eyes or they stop making HD DVDs.
Nicely put Eddie.
Great set of posts Eddie... Don;t agree, but you make your arguements in an intelligent manner. Makes your other flame posts bearable...
Eddie, Your accusations of "blutard" are childish and ridiculous. Fanboys (of any device / tech / band / movie) think they're being clever by insulting the opposition but only show their own emotional immaturity and inability to comment rationally. That goes for some members of the Blu Ray camp as well.
Its too bad if you backed the wrong horse, but the moral is don't be an early adopter if you're not prepared for the possibility of losing. Whining that supporters of another format are "blutards" is simply pathetic.
You are also wrong, very wrong, to think that two formats is good for HD physical format. The impasse in the last few years shows you are wrong. Sure, it meant that early adopters are showered with fabulous deals to win you over to their side, but the war was grinding each side to dust. Neither format will gain traction while the other exists. Consumers are scared off because there are two mutually incompatible formats. Ultimately the only winners are VOD / DLC services who can use the confusion to promote their own offerings. This may explain why Microsoft has been propping up HD DVD for so long, to prolong a stalemate. There wasn't even a good reason for this war in the first place since the standards are so similar that it would be hard to argue that one is substantially better than the other.
Anyway it is good that the war looks finally to be over. With HD DVD out of the way, consumers, manufacturers and studios can all get behind the remaining format and push it into the mainstream. There are so many Blu Ray players that there is going to be pretty healthy competition this year and extremely good prospects for growth. I think the adoption rate could even outstrip DVD from VHS because Blu Ray players are backwards compatible meaning there are no downsides to buying a player.
Am I sore about the position HD DVD is in?
Obviously.
But it isn't just a matter of having "backed the wrong horse". It's the idea that I backed the wrong horse, and the horse that's winning is owned by the mob, whereas my horse was in it for the sport. Yes, your horse will win, but at what cost? It would be easier to swallow if everyone just chose BR, but choosing a format based on the content available is pretty shortsighted. It's the equivalent of picking a Kia over a BMW becuse it has the spoiler in the back. You can't ignore the fact that BR has the highest potential for screwing the customer in the end, and so in reality, I'm not a fan of HD DVD as much as I am a fan of HD Media in general and the fact that if HD DVD ceases to exist, I will neither have the desire or the budget to buy into BR. Fine, BR's tech specs are better and it's a better format, we should be asking for more consumer friendly advances from Sony before trusting them to win one for all us fans of movies in High Definition.
Because I wouldn't turn my back on Sony, nevermind trusting them to watch my HD movie format...
And while I understand Sony isn't synonomous with BR, that there is an association, but Sony has the head seat at the table, gets the biggest cut from licensing the technology and has every opportunity to cash in its chips and leave the consumers in the dark once they decide they've made or lost enough money on the format.
Ben, that was your most rambling, least comprehensible post ever.
I bought one of these in December and this is ridiculous. They better support this thing with Firmware updates. A 6 month product cycle for their "flagship" player seems a bit short.
What the heck? Does this mean Samsung will let me trade in my 5000 for this "suitable replacement", or do I need to return this thing now??
LMAO
Ouch, Samsung needs to do some serious damage control on this one...
Hey Raptor007. It means you need to return this thing if you don't believe Samsung will update the firmware as supposedely promised - in May.
A 'replacement' means a replacement to the 5000's position in its product line, not a replacement for all its customers.
Well, as Samsung has not rescinded their statement about audio updates, I will keep my 5000... though not without some hesitation and unease.
Before all you Redheads start patting each other on the butt and giggling with glee, this is one manufacturer with a history of problems with blu-ray players and from the sound of it, both the players are suffering from the same flaw. Now of course had this been Toshiba, it would have been devastating since there would be no other manufacturers to go to but since blu-ray isn't a hardware monopoly, there are numerous other players to choose from.
Besides, perhaps it was the HDDVD side of this stinker that is the problem, so don't go all ape before you have all the facts....
I can't see buying one of these dual format players...its like buying a dual VCR/Betamax player back in the day.
You're right. It must not have been HD DVD Profile 3.14 compliant. How could I have been so wrong? Thank you for educating us, JimC. You can go back to addressing your alarming failure rates as a remedial Hooked On Phonics teacher at the local Y.
@Eddie,
Other than pure conjecture, do you have any hard facts as to why this player is being discontinued? Didn't think so. Maybe they're preparing to just drop HDDVD combo players altogether? Maybe Samsung players just suck. (Vote for the latter). I *had* the Samsung BD-p1200 and it is Samsung's other stinker. This company claim to fame is to give redheads fodder to play with....
There are discs of both formats with reported playback issues, with slightly more Blu-ray issues. Thankfully, I've experienced no such issues myself (I don't have any of the problematic movies).
And honestly guys... fanboys make their own formats look bad.
I'll admit that I lean red due to Sony's oppressive DRM history; I buy HD-DVD when both formats are available. But I don't go bashing Blu-ray on forums, and I do buy Blu-ray when it's the only format of a particular release.
The formats are nearly identical anyway -- it's all about who gets licensing money, and I'd prefer that it not be Sony.
JimC is on the sony payroll Eddie, so really not much point talking to him.
He has been hired to make a minimum 30 posts per story and stomp down anything remotely pro red in the never ending blu propaganda war.
I believe his rank is now Colonel and as one of the other posters pointed out the other day, he's such a good boy he regularly gets awarded 'gold stars' for his efforts.
@GUS
Haha GUS, unfortunately I'm not paid by Sony and my motivation is to stomp out stupidity. Careful you don't get stepped on....
Hey Ben, your link to http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/BDUP5500/ has no pages. Shouldn't it be http://www.engadgethd.com/tag/BD-UP5500/ ? (I've seen you do this on other articles too when linking to the BD-UP5000 tag.)
That's not cool. We have a macro that creates those links for us and it seems to be dropping the '-'.
thanks for the correction.
Ben
Could it have anything to do with a scheduled release of the BD-UP5500 also occuring around the same time frame. Or the BD-UP6500 a month later. Both of which will have profile 1.1, and 2.0 respectively.
@Eddie
Also, I agree, I wish that everyone was purple. It would make buying into HD media a very low risk investment.
Is the LG BH200 having issues as well?
Yes, and many speculate that the Broadcom BCM97440 is to blame in both cases.
Wait, wasn't that in the article..?
@Raptor007
No need to be sarcastic. I read the issues of the BD-UP5000 all over the net but I haven't seen much on the BH200.
So, as people have suggested, Broadcom's dual-format chip isn't ready yet, and there's no software workaround. Pity that. Looks like I'll take my BD-UP5000 back and give up on blu-ray for a while. No big loss. There's still DVD.
Maybe they'll have blu-ray sorted out before downloads come up to the same quality. And maybe not.
One more signpost that Warner chose wrong if it wanted a quick mass market.
Based on this one player? OMG....have fun with DVD's....reason out of the window....
samsung is a terrible company blu ray player wise they screwed up with the bd-p1200 as well i really like blu ray but it is a bit anti consumer when you cant play every movie on the player like you can with hd dvd but profile 2.0 will fix this then samsung will be back on top not entirely their fault but they need to get on top of things with firmware updates.
samsung needs to get there act together and should continue to release firmware updates on all 4 of their players and do it more efficiently still cant play pirates 3 on my dads bd-p1200 profile 2.0 players will fix everything with issues such as this.
I shipped my BD-P1200 back to amazon for a 80% refund and bought a PS3. It is worth it....
Interesting article. Was woundering if anyone besides Broadcom try to deliver dual format reference designs(HW & Software), or samsung is going for a newer version of the Broadcom HW. That would imply that current UP5000 never will get upgraded to support the new HD sound formats.
Ben, any ideas about this?
Regards
Jan-Ove