http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/ Engadget HD Comments for Samsung BD-UP5000 review http://hd.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://hd.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2009 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 29th 2008 12:03PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 29th 2008 12:33PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
I highly recommend this Seagal book

http://tinyurl.com/24f9a3

I read it when it was available on lulu a while back.]]>Jan 30th 2008 5:03PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 29th 2008 12:25PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
However I still think HD DVD has a chance to get back into the game if they take the proper steps.

As for this player the only thing it has going for it IMO is that its made by Samsung and it looks pretty on the outside.]]>Jan 29th 2008 12:26PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Does Toshiba have a chance? I don't think they do... they seem to have done everything in their power to give themselves a jump start again... well not everything... I would say they should be looking to improve their turnaround time on those free movies, though minor, it would definitely build some goodwill from their supporters. BD probably has the same delay so I am not comparing, just saying that it's a small way of differentiating itself from their comp and making their consumers happy.

Now, besides the price reductions, and perhaps DRASTICALLY improving their marketing, it's out of their hands. It's up to their supporting studios to step up their game, and so far... Bleh, nothing of substance to give HD DVD the momentum it desperately needs. I have heard this even from the hardest of the HD DVD supporters. Their studios have dicked them royally throughout this war. WB has given them better support than their exclusive counterparts.

To sum it up, is it really a fight worth fighting at this point? Another year of this back and forth? I don't.]]>Jan 29th 2008 2:13PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Considering that its 5.1/7.1 analog outputs would support nearly any AVR made in the DVD era and there would be no need for HDMI 1.3 (or 1.anything), and the claimed support for internally decoding any advanced codec, this would fit in ANY system.

One hopes that the BD-UP6500 sees the light of day and actually meets these specs.

Although the cost seems high at $750, such a box solves a more costly problem: adding blu-ray to an older system.

Something no one talks about with blu-ray is that adding it to a system that does NOT have HDMI 1.3 is either expensive or precludes listening to many BD discs in their best audio format. While a few players have 5.1 audio out, this only helps if they internally decode DTS-MA and TrueHD. Since raw PCM on the disc is being phased out due to large file sizes and most blu-ray compression is DTS-MA, it is rather annoying that NO current blu-ray players internally decode DTS-MA.

So, to get DTS-MA to your speakers, you need a new AVR that has HDMI 1.3 (most do) and internal decoding (most don't). Perhaps the cheapest that fits is the Onkyo 605 at $400 street, and the Onkyo 805 at $700 street is probably the most solid under-$1000 choice.

And we haven't bought our blu-ray player yet. Probably the Panny BD30 at $450 street, bringing our cost to $1150 with no HD DVD.

Now, HD DVD almost never uses DTS-MA, opting for the much more common TrueHD (and since both are lossless, who cares which?). So adding HD DVD to any system is simply the cost of an HD-A35 at $250, providing both internal decoding and 5.1 out as well as HDMI bitstream for things like the Onkyo above.

And ALL OF THE ABOVE expense and trouble can be avoided with something that works like the BD-UP5000 said it would.

Too bad it doesn't, and here's hoping something soon will. There's lots of HD DVD owners seeking a bluish-purple right now.]]>Jan 29th 2008 12:39PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 29th 2008 7:19PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Just give me

1. A single format (this one seems to be coming along just fine)
2. Speed the machines up. Even a full minute is a long boot time to watch a movie.
3. High quality video and audio, plus "simple" features (making of, director commentary)

My PS3 is just quick enough, but I'm still not buying any movies until ALL the studios are on board.

]]>Jan 29th 2008 2:08PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
To date, still no firmware for the BD-P1200 to play Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End, 3:10 to Yuma, and more...

I would stay away from Samsung...]]>Jan 29th 2008 1:06PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Just to set the record straight, Samsung was very prompt in releasing a firmware update to -temporarily, as always with BR-, fix disc compatibility issues, which were mostly BR ones, as usual.

There are still a few discs (such as Sunshine) that are for all intent and purposes unplayable, but an upcoming firmware is rumored for february that should fix those.

Blaming Samsung for BR's faults is like blaming the country for going to Iraq : if it wasn't for the head of the BDA being a snake, their PS3 wouldn't be the only flawless BR player out there.]]>Jan 29th 2008 1:29PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Back OT, I would love one of these players if it weren't for the fact they were $700. Then I can enjoy all my HD movies on one player without having to turn one off, change inputs on the TV, turn the other one one, wait for it to load. Man, how lazy am I...]]>Jan 29th 2008 1:43PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Facts:
Since October, there has not been a firmware update to fix a who slew of movies that won't play. In addition to, SD DVD's started having issues with the last patch, e.g. Matrix sound drop outs, etc...

This has nothing to do with Sony. Don't try to bring fanboyism in here. I love my Samsung TV and the blu-ray player was nice until it stopped playing movies and *still* after a month and a half later cannot play POTC: AWE. There is no excuse for that.

I didn't want to send my Samung player back but I wanted to watch a movie that sat on my shelf for over a month. No excusing that. AND TO DATE: NO FIRMWARE IS CONFIRMED FOR FEB!!!

Every week, Samsung support told me "Next week", this went on for weeks....until I no longer owned the shoddy piece...]]>Jan 29th 2008 1:46PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Problem is, you're talking about the 1200, I'm talking about the UP5000.

Wasn't this article about the UP5000 ?]]>Jan 29th 2008 1:56PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Yes this is about the 5000 but due to complete lack of reading comprehension your part, you missed the part where I am comparing Samsung to Samsung. Their track record with the BD-P1200 is appalling and as I said, *unless* they have fixed some internal quality issues with both the hardware and customer service, I would stay away from Samsung players for now.

How many times did I state BD-P1200? I am using one of their previous models to warn about their extremely poor support and performance.

SO *UNLESS* they've fixed those support and quality issues with the 5000 (which after being burnt by the 1200, I am *HIGHLY* skeptical) I feel *compelled* to warn others of my experience with Samsung. Period. This isn't an endorsement of Sony or anything else, this is a warning about Samsung's quality and service concerning their blu-ray players....]]>Jan 29th 2008 2:27PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Thanks for saving the day. Hopefully people will only buy the PS3 and not a 1.0, 1.1, and so on, wash, rinse and repeat buy-dump-buy cycle that the BDA loves you so much for.]]>Jan 29th 2008 3:07PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Why are you making this into a format war/Sony issue? I am NOT cheerleading for sony, I AM warning people about Samsung blu-ray player quality. Get over it....]]>Jan 29th 2008 3:18PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
The actual remaining issues have more to do with the promised decoding of DTS-MA and TrueHD, which right now it doesn't even pass through.]]>Jan 29th 2008 5:49PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Main problem is BR being a constant moving target with its multiple sound codecs, of which none are mandatory to insure a baseline, multiple, unfinished profiles, and of course, the ever-evolving BD-Java features, on top of which a layer for BD+ is added.

Hopefully, once Broadcom completes their universal stack, Samsung can also deliver on the BD-UP5000. Until then, it's wait-and-see, but this player is the first one on the market that truly has the potential to become the ultimate universal HDM solution.]]>Jan 29th 2008 1:20PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Samsung likes to blame the movie studios and/or the specification but it seems to be only them that is having such a problem with it. All other players are playing the titles just fine. Samsung either cannot fix it or lacks the willingness to do so.]]>Jan 29th 2008 1:40PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 29th 2008 3:26PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
It's just as bad for games. You can store all the data you want on a disc but if you can't read it fast enough it's useless. It's only going to get worst as game levels demand more data quickly.]]>Jan 29th 2008 1:15PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 29th 2008 2:16PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
I'm curious... why did you say "the 24p feature is almost unusable anyways"? I rather enjoy it.]]>Jan 29th 2008 3:03PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/My TV does a fine 3:2 pulldown and considering all the judder on 1080p30 content and who knows what to call the artifacts that plagued Transformers, I just assume leave the setting off it they can't make it work all the time.]]>Jan 29th 2008 3:05PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
If you have 24fps disabled, the 5000 does the 3:2 pulldown, not the TV. The point of 24fps is to avoid the 3:2 pulldown entirely on sets that refresh at a multiple of 24Hz (like 120Hz). If your TV is 60Hz then definitely leave 24fps off.

I don't have Transformers (yet?) and haven't seen any 24fps glitches (besides it not working on some HD-DVDs, but then it reverts to 60Hz output). I almost never watch special features, so I don't care much if 1080p30 is juddery.]]>Jan 29th 2008 3:23PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/24Hz->60Hz is ugly!

First, let's divide everything by 6 to make it easier to work with. We have 5 source frames in 1/6th of a second:
ABCDE

To 24Hz, we drop a frame:
ABDE

Back to 60Hz, we 3:2 pulldown:
AAABBDDDEE

Yikes. On top of the 3:2, there'll be quite the nasty jerk whenever we move straight from frame B to frame D, never seeing frame C.

So yeah, definitely don't use 24fps mode on a 60Hz display.]]>Jan 29th 2008 3:40PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
The problem is when the source content is 30p and the player is set to 24p. What the player should do is turn off 24p automatically, but what it does instead is convert it to 24p and make it completely unwatchable. I guess it's possible that it is an authoring problem, but honestly I'm not sure how I could tell.

If you ever buy Transformers, put in disc 2 and check out "Autobots Roll Out" to see what I mean.

Ohh and BTW, the bonus footage on Transformers is awesome for anyone who grew up with the toys. They take you through the creative process of how they got from the toys we grew up with to the robots in the movie. Good stuff.]]>Jan 29th 2008 3:44PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
You're right the player is doing the 3:2 pull down.

As for my TV, it is a PDP-6010FD and capable of 24p (72Hz).

I saw the problem on any disc with 30p content.]]>Jan 29th 2008 3:47PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
I also wasn't aware there even was 30Hz/60Hz content on HD media, so I didn't see how 24Hz could be a disadvantage. Now I do though.

Even without adding 3:2 pulldown, 30Hz->24Hz is still ugly because of the dropped frames. I agree, it'd be best for the player to automatically switch to 60Hz when playing 30Hz/60Hz content. But perhaps they avoided that route because of additional handshaking required to switch resolutions during use?

In any case, I'm mostly just interested in making movies look their best, so I leave 24fps enabled. When/if I come across something 30Hz/60Hz on HD media that I want to watch, I'll switch it temporarily for that. :¬)]]>Jan 30th 2008 8:00AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Yeah basically I just turn it off as well. My understanding is that the player is supposed to automatically switch to 60hz for 30p content. I suppose it is possible that the content isn't marked properly. Either way the negative effects of this on the 5000 is worse than on other players like the HD-A30.

Also, even on the main movie of Transformers with the latest 5000 firmware, the movie is unwatchable at 24p. The movie plays fine at 60hz and it plays fine on the HD-A30 @ 24p. This was the only title that I had a problem with though.]]>Jan 30th 2008 8:03AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
I disagree with your comment about Warner brothers giving more support to HD DVD then its exclusive partners. IMO Universal has done more for HD DVD then Warner has. I will concede that WB has been much better then Paramount/Dreamworks however.

Universal has released something like 120 titles with many really good movies among them (Bourne Trilogy, Serenity, King Kong, Hot Fuzz, Shaun of the dead, Fearless, Kingdom, Eastern Promises, The Pianist, American Gangster in a couple weeks, etc -so many more). ]]>Jan 29th 2008 3:00PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Universal should have been showcasing their lineup and stepped up their marketing last year. It's just too late now IMO.]]>Jan 29th 2008 3:29PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Over on the AVS owner's forum, the email from Mr. Lee only specifically noted bitstream support was coming.
]]>Jan 29th 2008 4:23PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 29th 2008 4:31PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 29th 2008 5:51PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 29th 2008 6:25PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
"We'd like to extend a special thanks to the participants of the AVS forum's BD-UP5000 owners thread for all there help with this review."

their*]]>Jan 29th 2008 9:42PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 30th 2008 4:07PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/We've already said that Samsung promised us the firmware would be out to update to 1.1 and add support for both internal decoding of the next-gen codecs as well as bitsream output.]]>Jan 30th 2008 4:10PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 30th 2008 4:52PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 30th 2008 4:53PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 30th 2008 4:54PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 30th 2008 4:51PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Seems very fair. As an owner of the 5000, this is pretty much my experience (minus the 24fps, since I don't have a display capable of 24fps).

I just hope Samsung can deliver on the audio by May/June. :)

I would hate to put this in the bedroom, and find something else for the main room.
]]>Jan 30th 2008 6:09PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
"One of the biggest gripes we have about HD media players is speed, who knows why it takes so long for them to turn on and load discs, but it has become common practice for us to time these things when we do a review. "

because they are nothing more than video optimized computers? I mean BD uses JAVA for god's sake. ]]>Jan 30th 2008 6:12PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 30th 2008 6:39PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Jan 31st 2008 9:47AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/Feb 7th 2008 9:12AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/01/29/samsung-bd-up5000-review/
Regardless, just about ever HDTV includes a narrow setting for exactly this point.]]>Feb 7th 2008 9:13AM