No, Circuit City's not shoving HD DVD out the door
By Darren Murph 
posted February 4th 2008 5:26PM
posted February 4th 2008 5:26PM
[Thanks to everyone who sent this in]
posted February 4th 2008 5:26PM
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These continued "strong" sales of Toshiba-players are going to play havoc with HD DVD's attachment rates... It won't be long before the average HD DVD owner will have more players than movies :-)
With disk sales in the dumpster, my guess most buyers will use their HD DVD players as upscalers. And as long as many HD DVD fans seems to think upscaled SD is "good enough", it sounds like a good fit. Without HD content, i don't see how this will changes HD DVD's position as a dead format. Toshiba's strategy eludes me at this point. I think the company is in this game to kill HDM altogether, since DVD has been such a cash-cow for them.
As long as Blu-Ray players outsells HD DVD players even without counting the best Blu-Ray player in the market (that easily outsells all other HD players combined), there is absolutely no incentive whatsoever for blu studios to go agnostic, since that will only prolong a war they want to end as soon as possible.
While hd dvd fan boys are breathing a sigh of relief, this still doesn't change the fact that ur less then stellar sales will continue 2 be shittier & shittier. I'm only going 2 say this once. Stop spreading FUD!!!!! disney is never going hd-dvd ever!!!! how may times do they have 2 say it??? Are some of you guys really that naive??? You can even go 2 bed this evening & wish on all the shiny little stars in the sky & it still wont make disney turn red & warner come back... Pathetic....
At my local Best Buy over weekend. Saw 5 blu-ray demo setups, 1 HDDVD. The Blu-ray rack was right next to New Releases which spanned half of the video isle (other half was the New Releases) and HDDVD was on the other side of the rack next to special interests (and half the size of blu-ray's section or a 1/4 of the isle).
Coincidence, maybe....
At Walmart, the HiDef end cap, well over 80% blu-ray and of the few HDDVD titles, most prominent were WB titles to soon be extinct....
Retailers, at least in my area, seem to be favoring Blu-ray. Evidence keeps mounting of Blu-ray's acceptance. Foreign distributors are drying up for HDDVD.
http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/02/04/spanish-distributor-manga-to-release-blu-ray-titles-in-2008/
http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/02/04/german-distributor-highlight-video-to-become-blu-ray-exclusive/
http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2008/02/04/french-distributor-bac-films-joins-the-blu-ray-trend/
The HDDVD watering hole is drying up and what is left is fouled by the dead corpses lying in the puddle....
Hang on to your HDDVD players, Toshiba may have a conversion kit to make them into blu-ray players... :-)
im going to have to say that all these blu boys are ignorant... ignorant means that you do not have enough data or information on this subject so just shut up...
i am an hd-dvd supporter by far, but i do own a ps3 although it never gets used...
i sell hd-dvd players all day long. i tell everyone the facts, and that blu own 70% of industry and no one cares and do you know why, they want quality they want affordability they want everything blu doesnt have...
try to tell me im wrong, cuz you know im not...
you can say im a fanboy cuz i dont give a rats ass what you think, im just stating a fact that hd-dvd will win this war, no matter what the situation is right now...
like i said before... so just shut up and read this..
the present is blu...
THE FUTURE IS RED!!!
Sorry dude, but HD-DVD only has a few more months of gas in the tank. Fool yourself all you want, hoping for an hd-dvd comeback won't make it happen.
The suspension of reality amongst the reds is astounding. Pretty soon HDDVD will be a collectors item, probably will live forever, having conventions and such, much like the Amiga computer. Yeah, it was great but it died as well...and for the same reason, lack of promotion and marketing. Great technology, poor execution....
The reds? Are they baseball players? Are the British attacking?
Ebay: Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Ebay: Bring out your dead!
[clang]
Blu-Ray: Here's one.
Ebay: Ninepence.
HD DVD: I'm not dead!
Ebay: What?
Blu-Ray: Nothing. Here's your ninepence.
HD DVD: I'm not dead!
Ebay: 'Ere. He says he's not dead!
Blu-Ray: Yes, he is.
HD DVD: I'm not!
Ebay: He isn't?
Blu-Ray: Well, he will be soon. He's very ill.
HD DVD: I'm getting better!
Blu-Ray: No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment.
Yeah, thats what this all feels like.
What's wrong with Blu that it can't seem to win even when it seems to have the upper hand? Clearly the consumer still has issues with Blu.
hey, i hope HD does hold up for many more months. That just would piss off all you BR people who think ur superior to HD. Obv everyone can see how it annoys you that we HD people are still around.
Oh, btw. HD has one HUGH advantage over your br people. We're not region locked. Ya, maybe theres not a lot of HD movies being released over here, but theres pleanty being released around the world. AKA, i just got all 3 rambos from amazon uk on hddvd. Granted their on BR as well, but sucks for you guys cause u cant watch them on a region 1 system where as we can, ah ha. So ya, maybe HD will die here in the us, but that doesnt mean its dead everywhere and we HD people can still get great movies at lower the cost of BR movies. What you ahve to say to that
In my local Circuit City (Wheaton, MD), the HD-DVD selection actually appeared slightly larger than the BR-D section. It certainly didn't look like they were phasing HD-DVD out to me.
I thought HD DVD was already dead after that Warner Announcement at CED, and yet it's still around. How many times does the Blue side have to announce to themselves that they won? I lost count.
Maybe they will in the end between HD DVD and Blu-Ray, but if Blu-Ray is the winner, I just hope it DIES also!!! I hope DVD will continue to dominate for years to come and Blu-Ray getting no where.
I will have NOTHING to do what that garbage. It was a Rushed out to marketplace, DRM infested format. There's not a single player even now worth buying. PS3 is close but with no IR port (No worthwile games either), it's worthless also. In a time of getting away from DRM with Music, you suckers want a whole lot more of that garbage for your movies. No thanks. I'll NEVER BUY or RENT a Blu-Ray movie. As one who buys a whole lot of movies, not a dime of my money will ever support it. If no HD DVD, so be it, Go DVD!!!
You know, I'd disagree...but consumers thought that SLP VHS was "good enough" for their personal collections for years. DVD looks sort of like VHS on a HDTV, and that's with decent upconversion. Well, you could say the bad encodes look more like VHS->VCD conversions...you get my drift. All I can say from my household is that CTW movies look like blocky poo and Star Wars just looks a bit blurry but otherwise acceptable. My sinking suspicion is that HD DVD will totally die, Blu will be delegated to the higher-end market (where people can afford to buy into constantly-evolving specifications,) and the rest of us will be stuck with aging, low-res DVD.
Sort of the way I feel, too. Maybe it's just all the FUD surrounding Blu but I don't think I'll ever feel confident owning the format. I'll have this nagging suspicion that, six years into it, the format will totally change, just like Betamax. And I know I'll get attacked by the fanboys for saying that, but I'm sure I have something over a few of them: I'm not affiliated with any of the movers and shakers in this little "war", just an end user who just wants solid players and high-def content.
And maybe we'll have to wait for the next format. I've not experienced scratched HD DVD discs yet, so I can't say how awful that might be; on the flipside, I see the writing on the wall for current BD players. One scenario could be that HD DVD will die, BD owners will get fed up with changing specs, and maybe the DVD Forum can get back together, get their shit together, and come out with one format that everyone can agree on.
Hell, they did it with DVD; what happened this time? Was it the lower data density? Microsoft's involvement? Just general Toshiba fatigue? I'm baffled by the whole thing. It's been clear to me, even just from walking into stores, that it's never been a fair fight, and it's amazing that HD DVD does as WELL as it does in the marketplace. I can walk into a local store and find nary a player, nary a disc. Yet the Blu-Ray merch is so very easy to find, and has been all along.
Y'all who'd rather see HD DVD on store shelves, you know what you need to do. We've checked out the players on both sides, we've seen the POS (Point of Sale, not the OTHER POS) displays, we've seen the commitment to a "standard" that's struggling as badly as HD DVD despite slightly better sales (again, NO PERCENTAGES, please, they BOTH have low numbers, percentages hand-waving is just another form of B.S.) If you truly believe you've bought into the better tech, DON'T talk people out of buying HD DVD until the dust settles; tell 'em what the benefits are. And there are benefits, such as the good upscaler. I don't remember what upscaler the A3 uses, but it's also used in pricier Blu players.
If you want to do people a favor, in other words, just tell them the truth. Tell them that with HD DVD they'll at least get a decent upscaler for a decent price, and that they may want to wait a few months for the Blu Live dust to settle, unless they're determined to get a PS3 to play movies. Make sure they understand that it's highly unlikely that, even if HD DVD player sales go well, that studios will ever support the players, as they seem to desperately want Blu to win. And finally, be honest about why. Don't throw in a B.S. argument about copy protection. Point out that the reason Blu was chosen to win was because it has greater potential for the future, while keeping in mind that it's possible that current players could become completely obsolete at some point.
Once you've completely baffled 'em, ask them if they really wanted HDTV in the first place. Kidding! :->
Nfinity had got to be a paid shill for Toshiba, right? I mean, we've all seen the sales data from the weeks since Warners went Blu-ray exclusive, so how can a format with only a third of the market and 2 major studios supporting it ever expect to be in every HDTV household by next Christmas?? That insane Patrick Bateman icon he uses is exactly how I picture him to look as he sits there typing madly away on his keyboard in a desperate attempt to fool the BD supporters into his apartment so he can chainsaw them all to pieces. Once they're all gone, well, then HD-DVD will be a success by default!
LOL! If I was as much a conspiracy theorist as Nfinity, I'd actually accuse SONY of hiring him as a shill. I mean, if you wanted to kill HD DVD dead as quickly as possible, how better than to unleash raving lunatics who act like they get something out of a piece of tech.
By the same token, while in conspiracy mode, I award JimC the Toshiba Employee of the Month, for making Blu-Ray owners look like raving a-holes and making HD DVD ownership nearly a racist slur. :->
From what I have read, there were signs that are believed to have been sent from corporate, but that is all speculative. I have a feeling something was thought about, but never actually done. If it had been for real, it probably would have made the Sunday ad. I'm a little depressed that I don't live near a CC, or else I would have purchased an A3 for netflixing.
Its also important to remember that CC once backed a little format called DIVX, in which they lost millions. Its quite possible they remember lessons learned.
Actually, with divx players, Circuit City was one of the creators, and partial owner of the patent (thus stood to gain if it won). They sold the players to unsuspecting people - but that is why they pushed it; their money was invested in its creation.
I own a PS3 and a A35, but Circuit City's reason for the clearance is complete BS. I hope someone got fired for selling a product bellow its intended price nationwide if their reason really is true.
HD DVD has 2 studios and 1 real company making it's player. Pretty much says it all BD or not.
I'm still hung up on:
"we had a hunch it wasn't exactly a sign of disownment. "
That's captain insano talk. EngadgetHD is THE blu-ray cheerleader at this point. We had what 4 pro blu articles the day the original circuit city "firesale" was reported.
I think EHD though ti was EXACTLY a sign of disownment, and they promoted it as such.
Both formats have problems. HD DVD has decreasing support from studios, which could be fatal. Blu-ray has a price that leaves out many new HDTV buyers, and many have worries about quick obsolescence if they buy their player too soon. This last is almost funny -- where before people didn't want to commit because their choice could be obsoleted by the format war, now there is one format and they still have a similar worry.
As it stands it looks like the studios will decide this for the consumer -- and it will be the studios' interests (copy protection, single SKU, cash under the table, etc) that make the difference, not the consumer's (low price, good value).
And yet Toshiba is trying to flood the world with cheap players and seems to be doing it to some degree. If they had done this in October rather than January, we might be having a different discussion and some of the yahoos gloating so loudly would be singing a different tune.
Maybe it will work out, don't know. I was all for Red but now I'm purple. But I'll tell you -- going Red was pretty cheap. Going purple costs a LOT, especially if you want to add that 3rd HDMI port for your two HD players and your STB. I'll bet that a lot of HD DVD owners are going to pause quite a while before they go purple. Ouch! Expensive!
As I said, we've gone from two robust camps growing faster than DVD ever did, with low prices and great value, to two damaged groups, with maybe a winner. And maybe both lost.
How does a company like Circuit City "inadvertently" put clearance prices on a product?
Circuit City hasn't been nearly "format agnostic" from the beginning! 2 local CC's I've gone to for years put up big, flashy BD displays and simply integrate the HDDVD inventory into the rest of the DVDs. They've done this from very early on in the war.
really please, just stop. The ignorance level is to the moon and back.
Facts - The only current HD-DVD players being sold in B&M stores in the USA are made by Toshiba. Currently these are being sold for a loss, keeping prices artificially low. Margins on HD-DVD players are lower than BluRay. BluRay has more studios backing the format which means more movies to sell.
What this means - There is no competition in HD-DVD hardware and it would not be profitable for any other company to bring a HD-DVD player to market. Therefore HD-DVD will always be marketed by a single company and cannot ever take a majority market share. Because of the low margins retailers will want to sell more media to make up for the low profit made from the player. However BluRay has more movies so it will always be easier to sell more with BluRay thus making more money. Profit is all that matters to retailers. They aren't going to continue to sell a product that costs more to put on the shelf than they make selling it, end of story.
If Toshiba thought they would win with HD media they would not be pointing out that the best feature of thier HD-DVD players is DVD upscaling. Rather than let BluRay win, with HD-DVD Toshiba wants to convince people that playing a DVD in a HD-DVD player turns a DVD into HD. That way Toshiba still gets to make money from DVD license rights and people think they are getting real HD.
Circuit City is probably waiting for thier price adjustment check from Toshiba before they drop HD-DVD. They don't want to let Toshiba know that they won't be reordering any more players before they get the check, or they might not get it. See Circuit City and Best Buy probably have a lot of players like the A-3 that they actually paid more for than they can sell it for due to the MSRP price drops by Toshiba.
A B&M retailer may have paid Toshiba $199 for a $249 player before Christmas that is still sitting in a warehouse. The retailer would make $50 by selling the player. However, Toshiba dropped the retail price of the player to $149. If the retailer sells the player now they actually lose $50, which won't make them very happy. They can either refuse to lower the price, put the product on clearance and take the loss, or sell the player and issue Toshiba a chargeback for the loss plus the profit margin percentage they made before the price drop. So the retailer would issue a chargeback to Toshiba for $80 or more for the player it sold.
So if Circuit City sold a lot of HD-DVD players at the discounted price it could mean a lot of money they are waiting for Toshiba to pay back. If Toshiba doesn't pay the chargeback Circuit City will just deduct the total from the next invoice from Toshiba and Toshiba will not get paid for the merchandise it ships to Circuit City. If Toshiba holds back on its shipment becuase they aren't getting paid, Circuit City will just drop them like a brick. That is what is going on right now with retailers and HD-DVD. That is why they aren't displaying HD-DVD as much as BluRay. Meanwhile the retailer can sell a BluRay player for a profit and not deal with all of the BS.
Why doesn't hd dvd just give it up.
consumers are buying hd dvd players. why should toshiba give up? because sony bribed warner? because you, brandon, own a $500 blu-ray player and want hd dvd to go away?