http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/ Engadget HD Comments for Onkyo giving pause to continued HD DVD support? http://hd.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://hd.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2009 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/They post the news not rosy HD DVD advertising from the HD DVD PR staff.... Well actually if HD DVDs PR staff sent them rosy stuff I wouldn't be surprised if it showed up. ]]>Feb 5th 2008 3:58AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Blu Ray appears more expensive by comparison because Sony hasn't cut the legs from under its partners by heavily subsidizing its own models. So Blu Ray manufacturers can make money from making Blu Ray players. Prices are dropping in a natural way through competition and economies of scale, not because a single manufacturer monopolizes the format and can set their own prices. ]]>Feb 5th 2008 4:11AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Toshibas problem in the long run proved to be Toshiba. While basically starting a price war on players between three different Toshiba models, other brands wisely stayed away. And that hurt HD DVD's chances at winning this format war. If you for some reason don't like Toshiba's hardware -- then your are plain out of luck if you plan on investing in HD DVD.

Toshiba has done an impressive job at saturating the market with it's players -- but Toshiba alone don't make HD DVD a success. The glaring lack of hardware support for HD DVD give customers good reason for pause.

And so far this week I'm counting 3 studios dropping HD DVD support, and it's only Tuesday!

The studio support is growing more anemic by the day to match the hardware support. This trend should be pretty evident to most consumers.]]>Feb 5th 2008 4:53AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Onkyo not bringing more to Europe can make sense because it seems like hd dvd only sells really well in the united states...

I do agree with you that Toshiba undercuts everyone even Microsoft and their hd dvd player "add on" that is supposed to be cheaper than the stand alone players.]]>Feb 5th 2008 7:38AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
But these days you can find Blu Ray players from other manufacturers that cost the same or less than a PS3. For example you could buy a Samsung BD-P1400 for $299. And players will become more cheaper as the year progresses. I would not be surprised if we see multiple brand name players including new models for under $300 in 2008. We might even see a few Chinese models for even cheaper.

Toshiba is undercutting *everybody* in its desperation to shift boxes. Even no-name Chinese brands that are using the A3 reference design. There can't be any profit for any HD DVD manufacturer including Toshiba at the moment.]]>Feb 5th 2008 8:08AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Obviously you haven't heard, but Alco is the HD A3 manufacturer now
(part of the deal was that they could produce their own brand, Venturer, if the wanted to).

This Onkyo news is not news. It's really just some whining from the UK importer.

If Onkyo had done more than (effectively) just change the face-plate & jack the price of the HD XA2 right up & rebadge it then there might be a problem here, but there isn't cos that's about all they did.

Why bother with a rebadged and more expensive version when the real Toshiba thing is identical & cheaper?]]>Feb 5th 2008 9:09AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 10:46AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Alco also make/made the Venturer.

Given that the exact same factory(s) were/are making pretty much the same player which version do you think they're going to ship the most of?

Of course Alco have chosen to concentrate their production on the name-brand player.

Don't be so ridiculous. ]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:00AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
No person in their right mind buys from there because it's synonymous with overpriced tat and crap!]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:36AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 6:05AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
I think anti-consumer collusion is bad, should be illegal if it isn't already, and would applaud government action banning the sale of any disk not available on both formats. Given that the government bestows copyright protection, it has every right to place limits on what one can do with it. Such as not using it to gain a player monopoly.]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:40AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 3:00PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
"I couldn't give a rat's ass about 1 format, I support HD DVD and anything that opposes the anti consumer monopolistic cartel that is blu ray!"

Spoken like a true zealot basket case! Did you have a mission briefing with Truth Teller and Nfinity to bleat out that one?

Nobody is forcing you to buy into anything. Spending your own cash is your own free will. No conspiracy, No subliminal messages hidden in Sony advertisements! You're quite welcome to stick with HD DVD! After all it's such a great upconverter!!!

I do find it ironic how you HD DVD soap box missionaries constantly cry about blu oppression, moaning Blu-ray is too expensive and too consumer unfriendly, yet the majority of you have an extensive collection of purchased media which obviously you got free? LMAO!

On another note, lets look at where your consumer friendly, region free, and protection hacked format has got you?

Anyone who has been following blogs on here will know, China is Truth Tellers Shangri-La! Yes, a magical place where HD DVD can be reborn and renewed for the fight against the Blu devil!....and their answer? For the princely sum of one dollar you can pick yourself up this...

http://pic.yupoo.com/flyerzeng/98307509664b/hxhhww4u.jpg

That equates to one giant raspberry and F.U from China to HD DVD!....and in the words of the TT twit himself, I'm sure these bootlegs are selling oh so very nicely long before the format is officially launched there!

...and on a final note, I'm sure Engadget are quaking in their collective shoe about losing your hit count on the site!]]>Feb 5th 2008 7:00AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Look up the big words.]]>Feb 5th 2008 7:26AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
The Onkyo UK guys can't (or won't) compete with the Toshiba HD XE1 - the Euro/UK version of the excellent HD XA2.

The HD XE1 is currently either difficult to find in the UK or if found seriously undercuts the Onkyo's suggested retail pricing.]]>Feb 5th 2008 8:35AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
It looks like HD4ME pushed someones button and suffered the wrath of a moderator

Waiting patiently now for Nfinity's cries of conspiracy!!! hehe]]>Feb 5th 2008 9:15AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 11:08AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/It is finally the times of the Blu-ray.
Because a place called full specifications is expected of not only a picture but also the sound quality, the Blu-ray thinks the target of the first half year to be there.
He did not talk in a topic of the HD DVD by an interview.
There does not seem to have been it from a beginning.
]]>Feb 5th 2008 10:02AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 11:07AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 11:10AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 11:12AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 11:15AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
If it wasn't for the link to the external blog site, I wouldn't have guessed that was a different username....oh, except of course for the posts being in completely a different tone, non abusive, and doing a complete u-turn over months of spreading fuddy crap!!!

Well done to whoever! =)]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:26AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
I talked to my friend who is the president of Hollywood and he told me that HD DVDs are actually compressed Laser Discs which have been recycled, compacted, and shaped to look like your average CD. Haha, man! They pulled one over on us, especially idiots like me and Gus, and Nfinity! ]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:39AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 11:42AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
It would seem people round here could only take so much of your fud....

I guess this blog is not going to be so much format wars now as it is Truth Teller wars! TT and his many clones will be having a face off!

Abuse to the ready!]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:46AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
What are you 10 with an Xbox HD-DVD addon? Shouldn't you be in school? ]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:42AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 11:44AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Kind of late in the day for that sort of BS 'prof'.

GFY. ]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:45AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 11:48AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
If you didn't spout crap like branding PS3 owners as Blu-ray.com morons/kiddies then you might get serious responses out of people.

Treat others how you expect to be treated yourself eh?

Most of the time you write comments like a spoilt child and that is how you're being treated now.]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:52AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:51AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
I did read that Samsung got by several issues thanks to the HD DVD hardware their dual player (obviously) had built-in.

(now wouldn't that be ironic?
Profile 2.0 can only be done practically if you incorporate HD DVD!?)]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:47AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
and isn't Denon way out of the majority of the HD DVD buyers price bracket? Hasn't this been your whole spiel for months on end? HD DVD = affordability! Not that there is much difference in price nowadays but if your average buyer moans about shelling out extra cash for Blu then they sure as hell aren't going to shell out for a top of the range Denon!]]>Feb 5th 2008 12:01PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 12:05PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
....and this differs from the Blu-ray situation where the BDA now openly advise people that the only 'safe' Blu-ray player to buy is the PS3 how, exactly?

They can give other branded stuff away with some brands of HD TV but that's not a sale (and they sure as hell have been mightily reluctant to let anyone in on that breakdown) ]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:51AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 2:53PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Sneer at QVC all you like but they obviously are a growing branch of UK retail.

The Venturer is an HD A3 anyways
(and the HD A3 is a very well reviewed player). ]]>Feb 5th 2008 11:54AMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
No amount of you hyping it up is going to change that. They sell way overpriced tat and attract impulse buyers.

Growing market? LOL!

Don't think just because you live in the UK that no-one else who graces this site doesn't either.

Enough with your BS]]>Feb 5th 2008 12:07PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
It's a fact that Denon said they were having serious problems getting
profile 1.0 discs and players to work properly with profile 2.0 discs
& players.

This is what they said -

*quote
====================================================================================
JT: Most likely. I haven't seen it in true operation yet; once I get
it, obviously, I'll know. But that's the premise. So you can have
running pictures of the director, of the actors doing commentary or
whatever other material the studio feels that they want to give you
to make it a truly interactive experience. After that, it's standard
Blu-ray.

But there is a possibility — and this is maybe not so public
knowledge — that when these discs come out that fit this new profile,
they may not work properly with the Profile 1.0 players.

Q: Really?

JT: It’s a possibility, and that’s why we’re working very hard to
make sure that our products will be okay with any previous discs and
new discs.

http://www.listenup.com/content/partner_stores/denon/talmadge.aug.07.php
************************************************************************************

The point being that even a very high-end player (with presumably
ever technical advanrtage possible) was having big problems in Aug
2007 - and is - still - being repeatedly delayed.

If a Denon can't get it to work right, at the level of component &
cost they operate at, then what chance the mass-market players?
Daewoo profile 2.0 anyone?!

LMAO


.....and you're tragically misinformed about QVC.

They are seeing substantial & growing sales year on year whether you like it or not.

*quote
QVC UK is the largest TV shopping channel in Britain with net sales of £331 million
in 2006.
http://www.sourcewire.com/releases/rel_display.php?relid=35862&hilite=]]>Feb 5th 2008 12:20PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
HD-DVD via Monty Python

Customer: I wish to complain about this HD-DVD player what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

Owner: Oh yes, the, uh, the Toshiba...
What's,uh...What's wrong with it?

C: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad.
'E's format is dead, that's what's wrong with it!

O: No, no, 'e's uh,... red studios are resting.

C: Look, matey, I know a dead format when
I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

O: No no reds not dead, he's, he's restin'!
Remarkable format, HD-DVD, idn'it, ay?
Beautiful picture!

C: The picture don't enter into it.
It's format is stone dead.

O: Nononono, no, no! 'red camp's resting!

C: All right then, if their restin',
I'll wake him up!

Ello, Mister Warner! I've got a lovely HD-DVD
player for you to show your movies...

O: (owner hits the player) There, it's playing!

C: No, you stuck in an old Warner release!

O: I never!!

C: Yes, you did!

O: I never, never did anything...

C: (yelling and hitting the player repeatedly)
'HD-DVD!!!!!

Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing!
This is your nine o'clock alarm call!

(Takes disk out of the player and thumps
it on the counter. Throws it up in the
air and watches it plummet to the floor.)

C: Now that's what I call a dead format.

O: No, no.....red's stunned!

C: STUNNED?!?

O: Yeah! Warner and Fox stunned it,
just as HD-DVD was wakin' up!
Cutting edge formats stun easily, major.

C: Um...now look...now look, mate,
I've definitely 'ad enough of this.
That format is definitely deceased,
and when I purchased this player
not 'alf an hour ago, you assured
me that its total lack of movies was
due to it bein' tired and shagged out
following a prolonged format war.

O: Well, red's...it's, ah...probably
pining for upscaled SD-DVDs.

C: PININ' for upscaled SD-DVDs?!?!?!?
What kind of talk is that?, look,
why did HD-DVD fall flat on it's
back the moment I got this player home?

O: HD-DVD prefers upscaling SD-DVDs!
Remarkable player, id'nit, squire?
Lovely picture

C: Look, I took the liberty of googling
this HD-DVD player when I got it home,
and I discovered the only reason that it
had been sitting on your shelf in first
place was that it had been DUMPED there.

(pause)

O: Well, o'course it was dumped there!
If I hadn't lowered the price, these HD-DVD
players wouldn;t sell and HD-DVD would never
take off. VOOM! Feeweeweewee!

C: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this format wouldn't
"voom" if you put four million
volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!

O: No no! 'E's pining!

C: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on!
This format is no more!
It has ceased to be!
'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!

'E's a stiff! Bereft of life,
'e rests in peace!
If you hadn't discounted the players,
the format'd be pushing up the daisies! '
Is metabolic processes are now
'istory! 'E's off the twig!
'E's kicked the bucket,
'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil,
run down the curtain and
joined the bleedin'
choir invisibile!!

THIS IS AN EX-FORMAT!!

(pause)

O: Well, I'd better replace
it with a BluRay, then.]]>Feb 5th 2008 12:34PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Another ruining of a great gag/sketch.

Typical Blu-ray unimaginative idiocy.

Just like how all the Blu-bots suddenly found a reheating of someone else's gag (Downfall) staggeringly funny the 3rd time around.]]>Feb 5th 2008 12:38PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Yes, Ahhahaahaha,
That really is a funny clip.
For those that haven't seen it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB2e7pfZmGA]]>Feb 5th 2008 1:05PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
They advise people to buy the player that suits their needs. Most only care about watching the high-def movie.]]>Feb 5th 2008 12:32PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
That Denon article only states they are still doing compatibility testing on "possible problems" and you spin it up as "serious problems". Can't you write ANYTHING without adding a dose of BS?

Considering that article is 5 months old, I'd be more interested in hearing what their current standpoint is seeing how support of HD DVD has changed a lot between then and now.

Again with the QVC hype! QVC like any of those home shopping channels market a wide range of products, overpriced, and targeted at impulse buyers! You also have to consider that the Venturer would be on a rotating sales pitch and shown with as much regularity as you coming out with some common sense!

It was announced to be sold at £100 and they're currently selling it for £206! So again, Toshiba has undercut another manufacturer which traditionally should of been a lot cheaper! I hardly see the phones jammed ordering that one.

Toshiba are doing no more than strangling their own market.]]>Feb 5th 2008 1:05PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
If pointing that out is just spin to you then you carry on, I think the repeated delays themselves speak volumes - and set against the BDA comments and thar whole 'they knew what they were getting into' outlook it makes a lot of sense.

You can carry on playing all of that down if you like, others can and will draw their own conclusions.

.....and whether you like QVC or not is hardly the issue; they are clearly tapping into a fair sized section of the UK retail market. ]]>Feb 5th 2008 2:03PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
The simple fact is Toshiba have undercut a no-name player. You claim it doesn't matter because Alco makes Toshiba and Venturer models. IT DOES MATTER. Alco spent good money, probably millions to licence A3 technology, manufacture, ship, market and support a player under their own brand. They spent that money only to be stabbed in the back by Toshiba who have undercut their model with the real A3.

Unless Toshiba have personally compensated Alco / Venturer for all of the unsold players they now have sitting in warehouses, all the lost sales, there is absolutely no way you can pretend this is a good thing. It doesn't matter either that Alco produces A3 players for Toshiba since the means of gathering revenue is different. Alco wouldn't even have bothered with their own model if it was more profitable to knock out players for Toshiba.

And it illustrates how rotten the HD DVD manufacturing market is. How can anyone, be it Onkyo or Alco produce an HD DVD player and make a profit when Toshiba is desperately slashing prices to get rid of its stock? Even worse when Toshiba will stick it to a partner to save their own skin.]]>Feb 5th 2008 1:12PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/You really have let this board descend into a ridiculous parody by continuing to tolerate Truth Teller and his coninued flaming and derogatory posts that have long ceased to have any value, purported or otherwise. This guy needs to be banned asap. ]]>Feb 5th 2008 1:23PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/Feb 5th 2008 2:06PMhttp://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/http://hd.engadget.com/2008/02/05/onkyo-giving-pause-to-continued-hd-dvd-support/
Pathetic.

Where were you & your snythetic outrage last week when one of you ignorant cretin chums was calling me a c*nt here, hmmmm?

Or where is the call to the mods for the cretins trashing the site with their drearily unimaginative & boring mimicking my handle or following me around like a couple (or is it the same fool?) of stalking village idiots?

Yeah, go cry to the mods; you be sure to tell them the whole story
(and while you're at it - yeah right - get them to check out some IP addresses and see about banning whoever is using multiple accounts to prat about, eh?).]]>Feb 5th 2008 2:11PM