It stands to reason that if the branded models are selling at firesale prices, that nobody will want to buy the no-name model. Look at Walmart's Venturer model - selling for a clearance price of $167 which is more than Toshiba A3 that its a clone of. Where the hell are the profits to be found? If you want to know why CE companies, including Chinese ones aren't exactly enthused with HD DVD, look no further than Toshiba's own predatory pricing.
Blu Ray appears more expensive by comparison because Sony hasn't cut the legs from under its partners by heavily subsidizing its own models. So Blu Ray manufacturers can make money from making Blu Ray players. Prices are dropping in a natural way through competition and economies of scale, not because a single manufacturer monopolizes the format and can set their own prices.
Toshibas problem in the long run proved to be Toshiba. While basically starting a price war on players between three different Toshiba models, other brands wisely stayed away. And that hurt HD DVD's chances at winning this format war. If you for some reason don't like Toshiba's hardware -- then your are plain out of luck if you plan on investing in HD DVD.
Toshiba has done an impressive job at saturating the market with it's players -- but Toshiba alone don't make HD DVD a success. The glaring lack of hardware support for HD DVD give customers good reason for pause.
And so far this week I'm counting 3 studios dropping HD DVD support, and it's only Tuesday!
The studio support is growing more anemic by the day to match the hardware support. This trend should be pretty evident to most consumers.
sony has undercut the legs of everyone else... they made their ps3 the cheapest blu-ray player with more features and upgradable to bd 2.0 ...
Onkyo not bringing more to Europe can make sense because it seems like hd dvd only sells really well in the united states...
I do agree with you that Toshiba undercuts everyone even Microsoft and their hd dvd player "add on" that is supposed to be cheaper than the stand alone players.
@eric, the PS3 originally cost $499 / $599 which is hardly cheap for a console. Now it costs $399. I agree that Sony took a financial hit to ensure the Blu Ray was in the PS3 indicating some level of subsidization at the beginning.
But these days you can find Blu Ray players from other manufacturers that cost the same or less than a PS3. For example you could buy a Samsung BD-P1400 for $299. And players will become more cheaper as the year progresses. I would not be surprised if we see multiple brand name players including new models for under $300 in 2008. We might even see a few Chinese models for even cheaper.
Toshiba is undercutting *everybody* in its desperation to shift boxes. Even no-name Chinese brands that are using the A3 reference design. There can't be any profit for any HD DVD manufacturer including Toshiba at the moment.
Obviously you haven't heard, but Alco is the HD A3 manufacturer now (part of the deal was that they could produce their own brand, Venturer, if the wanted to).
This Onkyo news is not news. It's really just some whining from the UK importer.
If Onkyo had done more than (effectively) just change the face-plate & jack the price of the HD XA2 right up & rebadge it then there might be a problem here, but there isn't cos that's about all they did.
Why bother with a rebadged and more expensive version when the real Toshiba thing is identical & cheaper?
Truth Teller, the point you have conveniently ignored is that Toshiba have managed to undercut a no-name player. Made by a partner no less. Tell me again, what incentive there is for ANY manufacturer, be it Chinese or otherwise to produce an HD DVD players when Toshiba so heavily subsidizes their own players that not even a no-name brand produced by a partner can make money?
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It stands to reason that if the branded models are selling at firesale prices, that nobody will want to buy the no-name model. Look at Walmart's Venturer model - selling for a clearance price of $167 which is more than Toshiba A3 that its a clone of. Where the hell are the profits to be found? If you want to know why CE companies, including Chinese ones aren't exactly enthused with HD DVD, look no further than Toshiba's own predatory pricing.
Blu Ray appears more expensive by comparison because Sony hasn't cut the legs from under its partners by heavily subsidizing its own models. So Blu Ray manufacturers can make money from making Blu Ray players. Prices are dropping in a natural way through competition and economies of scale, not because a single manufacturer monopolizes the format and can set their own prices.
drXym -- my point exactly.
Toshibas problem in the long run proved to be Toshiba. While basically starting a price war on players between three different Toshiba models, other brands wisely stayed away. And that hurt HD DVD's chances at winning this format war. If you for some reason don't like Toshiba's hardware -- then your are plain out of luck if you plan on investing in HD DVD.
Toshiba has done an impressive job at saturating the market with it's players -- but Toshiba alone don't make HD DVD a success. The glaring lack of hardware support for HD DVD give customers good reason for pause.
And so far this week I'm counting 3 studios dropping HD DVD support, and it's only Tuesday!
The studio support is growing more anemic by the day to match the hardware support. This trend should be pretty evident to most consumers.
sony has undercut the legs of everyone else... they made their ps3 the cheapest blu-ray player with more features and upgradable to bd 2.0 ...
Onkyo not bringing more to Europe can make sense because it seems like hd dvd only sells really well in the united states...
I do agree with you that Toshiba undercuts everyone even Microsoft and their hd dvd player "add on" that is supposed to be cheaper than the stand alone players.
@eric, the PS3 originally cost $499 / $599 which is hardly cheap for a console. Now it costs $399. I agree that Sony took a financial hit to ensure the Blu Ray was in the PS3 indicating some level of subsidization at the beginning.
But these days you can find Blu Ray players from other manufacturers that cost the same or less than a PS3. For example you could buy a Samsung BD-P1400 for $299. And players will become more cheaper as the year progresses. I would not be surprised if we see multiple brand name players including new models for under $300 in 2008. We might even see a few Chinese models for even cheaper.
Toshiba is undercutting *everybody* in its desperation to shift boxes. Even no-name Chinese brands that are using the A3 reference design. There can't be any profit for any HD DVD manufacturer including Toshiba at the moment.
@ DrXym
Obviously you haven't heard, but Alco is the HD A3 manufacturer now
(part of the deal was that they could produce their own brand, Venturer, if the wanted to).
This Onkyo news is not news. It's really just some whining from the UK importer.
If Onkyo had done more than (effectively) just change the face-plate & jack the price of the HD XA2 right up & rebadge it then there might be a problem here, but there isn't cos that's about all they did.
Why bother with a rebadged and more expensive version when the real Toshiba thing is identical & cheaper?
Truth Teller, the point you have conveniently ignored is that Toshiba have managed to undercut a no-name player. Made by a partner no less. Tell me again, what incentive there is for ANY manufacturer, be it Chinese or otherwise to produce an HD DVD players when Toshiba so heavily subsidizes their own players that not even a no-name brand produced by a partner can make money?
DrXym the point you are studiously trying to avoid is that the Chinese manufacturer Alco are now make all the 'Toshiba' HD A3s.
Alco also make/made the Venturer.
Given that the exact same factory(s) were/are making pretty much the same player which version do you think they're going to ship the most of?
Of course Alco have chosen to concentrate their production on the name-brand player.
Don't be so ridiculous.
and look where the Venturer is selling in the UK market Truth Teller! QVC!
No person in their right mind buys from there because it's synonymous with overpriced tat and crap!