The Media Center Extender shootout
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted June 19th 2008 12:00PM
posted June 19th 2008 12:00PM
The test
Although two out of three of these devices do more than just extend VMC around your house, we ignored the other features. It's not that we don't think that the other features matter, it's that we figure if those features are important to you, then you have no reason to read a review -- i.e., gamers will want a 360. The one thing we wished we would've included is a HP MediaSmart TV, but again, if you are in the market for a TV with a built-in Extender then you have an easy decision to make. It is also important to realize that there are more extenders on the horizon and one that was out of our budget. The Niveus Media Extender is way too pricey for us and neither the HP MediaSmart Connect nor the Samsung Digital Media Adapter are availble yet. As for our methods, the VMC and all three Extenders were connected to a Pioneer PDP-6010FD via HDMI, except for the 360 which utilized component.
Picture and Sound quality
Overall, we have no complaints in regard to picture and sound quality and all three were very evenly matched. The colors are a bit different, and this is most evident on the VMC main menu. The 360 is dark like a real VMC. The D-Link and the Linksys both look a little washed out, with the Linksys being the lightest color blue of the three. We didn't notice any real world difference though, and we think it'd be easy enough to correct with the HDTV's settings. The one place we did notice a difference is when viewing photos; the quality is noticeably better on the 360 and VMC, with both the Linksys and the D-link exhibiting a little less detail.
Wireless Performance
We weren't able to stream over 802.11g no matter how close to the AP we were. 802.11n worked fine anywhere in our house, but occasionally we saw the Network performance error and some drop outs.
Ethernet on the other hand was rock solid and worked flawlessly at 100Mbps. In fact, we also have a HDHomeRun connected to our VMC, and not a frame was dropped even when sending five HD streams around the house simultaneously.
Remotes
Not sure why both the D-Link and the Linksys come with such bad remotes. Luckily, you can use just about any VMC remote instead, which brings us to one of our gripes. While VMC has nine different IR codes to choose from, every extender works on IR code one. This makes it nearly impossible to use in the same AV rack -- for those with centralized equipment. The 360 can be configured to respond to the same IR code, or you can configure it to only respond to the 360 Media Center remote. Although the 360 remote could use more VMC centric buttons like Recorded TV, we do appreciate its overall feel, backlight and programmable buttons -- the DMA2100 has programmable buttons, but interestingly they wouldn't learn the codes from a Sharp TV we tried.
Screen saver
Seems silly, but having a screen saver on your HDTV can be very useful. The Linksys has a cool logo that bounces around, and the 360 dims then eventually turns off. Notably, we never saw one on the D-Link, but maybe we didn't wait long enough.
The Linksys vs the D-Link
Performance wise, both the DMA2100 and the DSM-750 are identical and lack the really cool animated transitions (see video below) the real VMC and 360 have -- but they're both just as snappy. We took a quick look inside to check out the difference between the two fanless units, and found no surprises inside as both units share almost the exact same internals. The big difference between the two is that the D-Link has Media Lounge, an extra antenna, built-in power supply, and both optical and coaxial S/PDIF (opposed to the Linksys with only coaxial S/PDIF). We did have a problem getting the D-Link to work with our Xantech IR repeater; in fact, despite trying three different emitters, we weren't able to get it to work at all. One other odd thing we noticed was that while the Linksys was willing to output 1080p, we couldn't get the D-Link to do it -- not a big deal if your HDTV has a good de-interlacer, but it's always good to have options.
| DMA2100 | DSM-750 | Xbox 360 |
|
|---|---|---|---|
| Form Factor |
Smallest |
Standard rack width |
Biggest |
| Startup time |
10 seconds * | 1 minute 20 seconds |
48 seconds |
| Remote | Programmable, but cheap feeling |
Sturdy, but not programmable |
Not included, but it is programmable and backlit, but buttons are not as VMC centric |
| Networking | 10/100 and 802.11N | 10/100 and 802.11N | 10/100 and optional 802.11G |
| Video codecs | MPEG-1, MPEG-2, WMV9, VC-1, DiVX, Xvid | MPEG-1, MPEG-2, WMV9, VC-1, DiVX, Xvid** | MPEG-1, MPEG-2, WMV9** |
| Price | $240 (Amazon) | $285 (Amazon) | $300 (Arcade, including remote) |
| Extras | None | Media Lounge and USB | Games, Media, DVDs and USB |
| Noise | Silent | Silent | Noisy |
| Outputs | HDMI, component, composite, S-Video, coax digital and stereo. | HDMI, component, composite, S-Video, coax digital, SPDIF, and stereo. | HDMI, component, composite, SPDIF, and stereo. *** |
** More codecs supported outside of VMC, 360 played MPEG-2 with the wrong aspect ratio.
*** Extra 360 specific cables required.
Wrap-up
We are glad to see so many new ways to access all of our HD content (including recorded HD cable) on any HDTV in the house, and we're happy to say that every one of these devices is a great solution. But while gamers will be drawn to the value of the Xbox 360, the noise and sheer size of the box prevent it from being the ultimate solution for others. So as much as we miss the cool animated transitions, the old adage "Jack of all trades, master of none" was never more true, and in the case of Media Center Extenders we really prefer the Linksys DMA2100. It is less expensive, boots up faster, and is so small and quiet it will work in just about any application where the main goal is to access VMC. At the same time, it is a close race, and since an Extender is the kind of device you're likely to own more than one of, we'd probably choose one of each if we were outfitting our entire house.
i finally got an xbox with my tv purchase, and i cant get that damn xbox to sync with Vista... ive tried and tried all solutions, but it just doesnt connect. after i enter that 8 digit code, it gets stuck at part 2, then an error shows up.
however, if i use tversity, it works perfect.. damn microsoft! i searched my problem on google, and seems tons of people have the same problem. ports are opened, no firewalls, using wired... nothing works
A) The 360 WiFI adapter does B/G/A, and A is much better than G...
B) Your voice is obnoxoius. I stopped listening to the podcast because of it... The new cohost you aquired a few months ago should take over all video voiceover...
If you want consistent, high performance, reliability and the overall best media center extender stay with the 360. I work in the custom home theater/house automation market and we have dealt with the poor reliability and overall performance of both the Linksys and Dlink extenders. Jobs have started with 7 plus Linksys extenders have now all been swapped out for 360s.
Also to those complaining about the fan noise on the 360s.....cough up the extra cash and get the xbox 360 elite. the newer ones are a light quieter..
what was used to connect all of these up, I tested with a Netgear switch & D-link wifi router & got nothing but problems when it came to HD.
I used both a 16 port Netgear, a 16 port Linksys and a 5 port Netgear. All worked fine.
Gb or 100mb switches? I have a Gb switch, VMC with 3 MCE360 & there all pretty lame right now, do you have anymore info for me How much memory should my VMC have? Currently has 2gb.
All the switches I tried were 100Mbps and my XPS 420 has 3GB of 667 RAM.
I don't get it then, I have Gb network, a Velocity Micro MC with 2Gb & 3 Xbox 360 for MCE's. Thanks for your feedback.
Sometimes Gig makes more trouble because of auto-negotiation failing on devices that don't support Gig. Try using a 100Mbps switch for the 100 only devices.
I dont think they're using a newer 360 as the newer ones are much quieter. If you're looking for something that can handle various types of files you might want to dust off that old Xbox and run Linux on it, it makes for a great extender. Its funny how people give the 360 a hard time for noise, I've owned an older near launch unit and a current Falcon unit which is as quiet as my PS3.
Seriously though an old Xbox running linux will outdo all these, you might have to beef up the hard disk but just about any cheap IDE drive will cut it. Not to mention you can run a lot of different emulators on the system as well, (MAKE SURE YOU OWN THE ROMS!) Odds are if you own a 360 you own an old Xbox or can get one used for dirt cheap, its a cheaper alternative as it can also upscale to 720p and 1080i also, just something to think about.
While I respect the VMC for it's fancy GUI; try putting it infront of your wife or parents compared to SageTV or Beyond Media. Both options are far friendlier than VMC, and my choice has been BeyondTV for 3 yrs, the support is awesome, and with BeyondMedia and the Movie Library plugin, it's rock solid and wife friendly. I use it on an HDTV connected directly to the BeyondTV, and also on an elcheepo pc on another HDTV with BeyondTV Link. I keep looking at SageTV or VMC to beat the BeyondTV combo, but they are not quite there, IMHO.
A small point to consider is that the Linksys isn't powerful enough to play mpeg2 files from an HDV camcorder.
If you import from tape using Vista Movie Maker, it saves it as a .dvr-ms. It plays fine on the xbox, but not on the linksys (and probably the D-Link since it's the same hardware). I believe it's due to the 25Mb/s bitrate of HDV versus 19 or whatever for ATSC (which plays fine).
This is important if you make home movies with an HDV camcorder.
Not sure if you were aware of it, but there's a free prog called DVRMSToolbox that can convert .dvr-ms files to .mpg (it has ComSkip built in as well). The quality loss, imo, is signficant though. Nero Vision or Recode also can convert and do so without much (if any) perceivable loss. Also also, you could burn the files to disc (dvd/mpeg2 format) using Media Center itself.
What about power consumption??? Typical Americans! :-P
can't believe anyone would try to hold up Sage TV and the seriously complicated setup (Don't even mention MythTV) and the lack of 3rd party mods out there to VMC. And I'm a Sage user, that's experimenting with VMC. So far its no contest. My VMC box is going up easily. Codec support is easy. Hardware support is easy. Customizations are easy. VMC is simply more of an all encompassing setup. I'm happy about the HD-PVR from Hauppauge, but there aren't really any advantages vs Cable Card except that you can buy them seperately. They will be supported in VMC anyway. They'll still only do stereo right now anyways.
One obvious Advantage of the HD-PVR is I don't have to buy a whole new computer just to use it! (I'mve very picky about my components)
Also, in favor of Sage and some of the other Media Center apps, you can use another computer as an extender. I'm so suprised MS won't allow this. Another full version of Vista could cost me as much as an extender and they would get all the money for it! This is very important to me as I often use my Vista Laptop for a TV in my BedRoom, but can't stream live TV because of this one lacking feature (and please noone mention WebGuide, it doesn't allow for convenient "channel changing").
SageTV FTW!
Great post Ben. I can't get my MCE to work with my XP notebook (When I first got the 360 it did, then after an update, nothing) but its good to know that Vista works great. I love the 360 and when streaming it does offer a noticeable hum. If I get MCE to work, I'll pick up the remote.
MythTV FTW!
People keep pointing out SageTV can skip commercials as if VMC/XP MCE cannot.
There are multiple add ons for both versions of Media Center that will allow skipping of commercials either during playback or by editing the files automatically after they are recorded.
So that one is a wash.
For what it's worth, I had a 2100 for about a day and it is silent. It didn't play xvid with AC3 so I took it back.
MAY try a 750 but it really has no advantages over my dsm-520 except being able to pause 'live' tv.
Scott,
Not sure what the deal is, but I've watched a few XviD with AC3 files on my 2100.
Nice Article Ben,
And there is obviously major interest in the extenders based on the comments!
In response to the above comments:
I'm a SageTV user, have used VMC, Windows XP MC and BeyondTV/Beyond Media in the past. As far as feature-set goes, SageMC is well ahead of VMC mostly because of the limitations put on it by MS. Extenders can't extend all formats (ripped DVD's for instance), need add-ons to manage (edit, transcode etc) the proprietary media files with DRM, can't build your own PC to use as an extender among other things.
VMC has CableCard which is a decent solution (until recently the only solution beyond TivoHD) to get those digital, encrypted channels on an HTPC. Now, with the HD-PVR things have changed and that advantage has been minimized tremendously. Yes, the output of the HD-PVR is analog and converted to h.264, but it is very good quality - you really have be looking for any difference to see it - believe me it's very good quality video. The HD-PVR is in its infancy and Hauppauge has been working through some issues all of which should be handled by next month. Add the SageTV HD100 extender to the mix and SageTV makes a very tough competitor. It's still in the niche market, but I've been seeing some VMC converts coming over to SageTV and have been very happy. The SageTV HD extender if it were matched up to the three reviewed units above would win hands down. It's SageTV only though so tough to compare in an article like this...
Brent
The Popcorn Hour does have an interface to GB-PVR which is a full featured PVR/ Media Centre certainly comparable to VMC, Beyond TV, and SageTV. IGB-PVR also support the HD-PVR.
One nice thing about the Popcorn Hour (other than attractive price) is that it can run either as an extender or standalone. Hopefully in the future there also will be options to interface to MythTV, and VDR too.
Martin
Blue Tinum (sold by Aldi discount Supermarkets , of all places) is by far the best of all. Includes DVD player, plays all formats of photo audio or video stored in any HD, card reader,USB, direct access to the web via its WIFI modem, or via the connected PCs (wifi connected to any number of vista or XP,pcs), web TV, web radio, lots of transitions, Symantec Media center software, AND IT COSTS THE EQUIVALENT OF 50 USD.
I have had one for 2 years and never gave a problem, not when I changed routers, nor when I added new PCs.
Check the Blue Tinum home page, they call it network dvd player
"There really isn't any other option out there that will allow you to watch premium HD cable in every room of your house while at the same time centralizing all your media in one place."
Actually, I use my Series 3 Tivo and a Linux server running Pytivo to accomplish this. I download whatever content from the internet (right now I'm watching all of Battlestar Galactica) or rip from DVD. all my content (any video format) sits on my Linux file server that sits in a closet out of sight. All this does is store video and do on the fly conversion of video. My Tivo sees the Linux box as another folder on my Now Playing list. When I select a video file to watch off my Linux server, I just start watching it. Pytivo converts it to the .tivo format on the fly.
Not to mention that Tivo is the best darn front end for any cable box. I've used it with Comcast and FIOS cable cards.
Why is Tivo always left out of these "media extender" conversations?
i noticed a few errors that have caused me to question the thoroughness of your review.
1. "...the Xbox is noisy and will always be a gaming console first and a Media Center Extender second..." -----noisy, yes. will always bring up the MCE second, false. this just isn't true. try this: go to system tab-> console settings-> startup: now you have 3 options, load the disc, load the xbox dashboard, or load the Media Center. If you choose Media Center that is what will be first displayed.
2.supported codecs "MPEG-1, MPEG-2, WMV9**....** More codecs supported outside of VMC, 360 played MPEG-2 with the wrong aspect ratio." ----After a 20 second download I was able to play VC1, Xvid, and Divx: through both the Xbox dashboard, and the WMC. I have never had a format that played in one but not the other so i'm not sure what "outside VMC" means. MPEG-2 ratio issue: i have had videos initially display certain vid formats incorrectly... but then i just pushed the aspect ratio button. I think that it is entirely misleading to say that it won't display correctly when it simply requires 1 button push to fix it.
3."HDMI, component, composite, SPDIF, and stereo. ***...*** Extra 360 brand cables required." ----With the proper cables, as with any player/unit/device that displays video, you can output other formats. Xbox also supports VGA, DVI, and optical audio out. As far as cables go: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PURCHASE XBOX 360 BRAND CABLES. this just seems like a flat out lie to me.
Closing:
it seems to me like you possibly spent 2-3 hours or so with an xbox360 and made your review. I'm not a fanboy, especially since i was reading this to find a better solution than the 360 for an MCE, particularly one that supports 802.11n. You are either poor at reviewing/testing or you're just a hater. i don't know about the other units you reviewed as i don't have them myself, but because of the misreporting in the 360 part of the review i question the integrity of the rest of the entire article.
CCNAds,
Thanks for your comments, but lets be honest they are not "corrections" just your opinion.
I never said it wouldn't boot directly to VMC, in fact this is how I tested the boot to VMC time. What I meant was that the machine's primary focus is to play games, and the Extender functionality is a secondary function, and it shows in some cases.
I'm sure you could hack the thing or use a 3rd party plug-in to make it do whatever you want, but plug-ins were not a part of my review. As for the aspect ratio, the 360 FAILED to automatically detect the aspect ratio of MPEG2, when the other Extenders detected it just fine. I never said you couldn't override it, just that it didn't detect it properly.
You're missing my point, which was that since the 360 doesn't have standard video outputs, you have to buy special 360 cables. You simply cannot take any old component cable and plug it in. You're right about the brand, so I removed that one word, that I don't think really makes that much difference in the meaning.
Well that is quite an accusation, and to be honest you are just plain rude. That being said, I bought a 360 on day ONE and had one for a year before I sold it because I never used it. Just because I don't think it is the best Windows Media Center Extender, doesn't mean I'm a "hater." You're almost as bad as the PS3 Fanbois who flamed me because I didn't include it, despite the fact that it isn't a Windows Media Center Extender.
You can twist my facts anyway you want, but it won't change the fact that when I needed another Extender for my guest room, I bought a Linksys instead of a 360. Now if I was even semi-interested in playing games, then I would've gotten a 360, but like I said in the review, I'm ONLY interested in how the devices performed as a Windows Media Center Extender.
Here's the problem, playing DivX through the WMC is all fine and good but because we can't play it through the XB360 MCE, I'm still using XBMC on the XBox and will continue to do so. I really don't see the point of WMC if all you can play is WMV files ... If for some reason things have changed in the last two weeks and we can now play DivX/XviD through the XB360 MCE then I apologize.