Okay, so we really have no clue what's going on inside of Toshiba's labs, but one thing is for certain: it has
upscaling on the brain. After hearing of an elusive
super-resolution DVD player and seeing an all-too-curious
new DVD logo, in flies word from Germany that the outfit is prepping an updated line of Picture Frame LCD HDTVs for release at IFA 2008. On the surface, there's not too much different about these REGZAs compared to any
others, but internally, the newcomers are expected to tout Cell-based Resolution+ technology, which will upscale SD images in an attempt to make something (read: HD) out of nothing. Granted, Tosh has been
talking up this stuff since CES, so it's not an entirely new concept, but we'll be interested to see if this has anything to do with those rumored DVD deck plans.
[Via
Big-Screen, danke Joel]
posted Jul 10th 2008 4:05PM
You know you'll have to buy a new TV or a new DVD player so that reasoning is out the window. And it still has nothing over BD.
Why do you want it to fail so much? It as friendly a format as any other.
If I buy a high definition TV, I don't want to watch "diet HD" on it.
unless u want to watch HD quality footage you will need a blu ray player or if u want low quality hd you will need cable or the dish
super upscaling still isnt anywhere near hd quality
My new consumer electronics buying strategy is to never buy anything from Toshiba solely because the HD-DVD marketing group will not shut up on this forum. I wonder what percentage of Blu-Ray purchases are made soley to spite them; not enough if you ask me. I'm going to go buy Batman Begins on Blu-Ray this very instnace, and take it home to watch on my SONY Blu-Ray player just as a matter of principle.
"This technology is AWESOME for anyone who wants to get highest possible quality from DVDs without buying ANYTHING if all they need is a new HDTV."
Is that a serious statement, or have the infinite-monkeys-at-infinite-typewriters started posting to EngadgetHD forums?
So, let me get this straight? Instead of buying a $75 upconverting DVD player, or a $399 Blu-Ray player with upconversion, all I have to do is buy a +$1000 HDTV? Thank goodness I get to spend a $1000 to watch HDTV-lite instead of real HDTV. The $10/disk I save buying DVDs instead of Blu-Ray will pay for this TV in....ummmmm....5 years, or infinity years if I rent. I am sleeping better already knowing that Toshiba is committed to brining me that kind of extreme value.
I look forward to your idiotic boasts of buying one of these high definition sets just so you can watch upscaled DVDs the whole time.
"Nfinity
LOL you seriously lack IQ to comprehend this. Someone who hasn't bought anything and has to switch to HD which is about 70% of PEOPLE.. only needs to buy a TV with this technology. Are you that dense?"
Um if you have to switch to HD then you have to go and get a bluray player to watch hd.
why spend a lot of money for a tv to only watch standard def and most sd content that wil be upconverted using the super up scaler or any scaler will look like shit, especialy films with piss poor sd transfers. they will only look even worse.
if you want to just watch standard dvd then you will just need a standard def tv and it would look better on most standard def tvs at 480p
which means you wont rush and go hd but just go digital meaning you either have cable dish or a converter box or neither and just watch dvd only
nfinity sure
bluray has already been selling faster than dvd did within the same time period of bluray.
digital downloads are a ways off
1. less that 25% of the world even has internet
2. less than that even have broadband
3. less have fast enough broadband
4. digital downloads arent truly hd they are hdlight not even beating dvd in most cases.
5. no uncompressed hd audio surround sound audio tracks.
6. not something simple enough for most people to use (not saying you or me or anyone in this forum, but the general population)
7. digital copies are in many cases just as expensive as a hard copy.
actally more so, considering they are of much lower quality video and sound.
8. digital downloads will be best used as an alternative rental option.
thats the only good use for such.
9. i can just rent or buy blu ray and rip them to other br discs or to an HDD and always have copies.
so i see no point in buying low quality downloads.
ya the selection isnt that great, guess what the selection of dvd wasnt great for a while either, but its getting better now.
and on price, bluray isnt very expensive.
sure the dvds have droped in price, but they have movies thats been on dvd for a while, blu ray is a new format.
vhs was much more expensive, i pad upwards to $50-60 for movies on vhs back in the day up to mid 90s.
dvd only started getting cheaper recently as of a few years ago.
if you have the money to buy an hdtv then ou have no reason not go go blu ray.
going super up conversion is just retarded since many movies will end up looking worse, few will look better but non will be anywhere close to HD.
you are better off with an sd tv which will be much cheaper to get . that is if all you care about is dvd or downloads.
not saying im not for the toshiba scaler. i'm all for it as a good scaler for sd content as a tv scaler but it is no replacement for blu ray. its ok for movies with decent sd transfers on dvd (not ones with poor ones) it will look better than most scalers sure, but not HD. its ok for peoples current collections, so they don't have to worry about just replacing it yet til their favorite films they already own come to bluray. i would replace the ones i like the most as the price falls on blu ray discs. and only buy new movies on bluray.
Poor baby thinks that people picking up a $60 HD DVD player somehow means anything whatsoever. For that price I'd pick up a couple too. Doesn't mean I think the format would rise from the grave or anything.
Grow up baby, your precious format lost.
It they were smart they would be building more of these units with built-in DVD players, and just bundle the entire concept in one package.
Actually Nfinity, what this means is that these TVs will have glorified upscalers which may be moderately better than interpolation alone depending on the input. Certainly a nice feature but something only the truly deluded think will prolong the life of DVD or mean squat for Blu Ray.
What, no anti-HD DVD jab at Toshiba?
Oh wait, this isn't Ben Drawbaugh. Sorry, carry on.
Your kidding right?? Darren Murph is the worst by far!
I'm not against the technology for several very important reasons;
1) This might actually be a more fruitful avenue for Tohsiba to pursue than jumping on the Blu-Ray bandwagon...which the can do at any time, and could turn out quite profitable for them.
2) Anything that makes HD more popular is a winner, even from my BD centric veiwpoint. I thought that was what this board was about, but it seems to have devolved shouting match about Blu-Ray's (and Sony's)right to exist and succeed in the marketplace.
3) Until I get the cult classic Damnation Alley on Blu-Ray, I'm going to need to be able to up-convert my CED player somehow =)
Timing will be critical for Toshiba to make this technology profitable. The early adopters with their deep pockets already moved, the market shrinks both numerically, and in the premium they are willing to pay. The bottom half of the market won't pay a dime for any additional feature.
I wish them the best of luck, but I'm surely not interested.
Wow, someone actually used a Blu-ray.com source and expected people to take their rantings seriously.
LMAO
I see Darren's back to his usual biased self.
Anyone might think you'd actually seen any of this stuff yet Darren from the way you slam it out ofhand like this.
Nfinity, you do realize that the supposed 56% broadband penetration in the US is because of the pathetically low definition by the FCC of broadband. Until _very_ recently, broadband was considered 200kbps!!! Lets see anyone download a SD video source on that connection, let alone HD.
See http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080615-jokes-over-fcc-establishes-new-broadband-measurement-system.html for full details. Note that the FCC won't share the numbers based on their revised definition of broadband where anything under 768kbps is considered to be first generation broadband. They also won't share the data based on the facts that previously, a community was considered to have broadband available if 1 address in a zip code had broadband available. This eliminates broadband availability from many people who are considered to have it available.
In addition, with broadband providers adding download caps, people will be less inclined to download movies rather buy/rent physical media. Lets hope that this isn't a long-term scenario, but it will certainly increase the lifetime of physical media.
Wow, the US sounds like it's really lagging behind now, if what you say is the unvarnished truth.
Even here in the UK (usually the home of low spec high cost) we are getting C21N, where everyone will have an 'up to 24mb' connection.
Currently 'up to 8mb' is common here.
The 'up to' is key but my own current 7.4mb down/0.44mb up speeds would indicate that I can look forward to over 20mbs down & 1mb up when it comes in later this year, if the ratio of actual outcome verses theoretical spec remains similar.
It's already being trialed around Birmingham and Northern Ireland will be the 1st region to get it with my own area starting in Q3 2008.
Full UK roll-out is scheduled to be complete by 2012
(but with the bulk done by the end of 2010).
Elsewhere in Europe we have some outstanding examples, 100mb down & 10mb up connections are not uncommon in Sweden for instance.
Anyhoo, advances in compression and changes in the market are making this all academic, a nice DVD5 or DVD9 sized encode (with DTS/Dolby Digital) is going to keep costs down and satisfy the market.
We are already seeing the effects of Hollywood's endless stream of cr@p releases, renting is up, ownership is in decline and iMovies - despite all the complaints that they aren't high def to the nth degree - are gathering pace and took just 3 months to pass Blu-ray's sales numbers.
So baby, we should just dismiss Watch Impress who actually went to the effort of running Toshiba's upconverter on a SpursEngine equipped Qosmio simply because someone on Blu-Ray.com linked to the story?
Grow up baby, your precious format lost.
Anything from that purpose designed PS3 game console fanboy site Blu-ray.com automatically carries it's own 'health-warning' to anyone with a brain.
Similarly your desperate grasp at a single source speaks volumes (about you) and not in a flattering way.
Lastly.......
The truth is that "your precious format" isn't going anywhere and has
also lost
(and you got the shaft on the prices you paid).
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/07/03/sony-talks-future-of-oled-blu-rays-chances-against-dvd/#readercomments
Still LMAO most heartily at you.
Sorry baby, but if you had bothered to go to the site or looked at the clips would realise the upscaling was monumentally awful. Not just bad, but terrible, unwatchable. Which is why you bawl your eyes out and pretend the results don't count because a forum poster linked to the article.
As for your link, there is nothing remotely surprising in what Sony says. Only idiots like you think it means Blu Ray won't succeed
Grow up baby, your precious format lost.
right i hate this engadget posting system, its utterly crap.
What forum are you part of so we (all of the people here who disagree with you) can have this out once and for all.
"A1, I'm in a few forums, none of which would tolerate your lies, half-truth and outright fanboy-ism."
What lies and half truths? I led you guys to a source that was showing this new technology, who gives a shit if it was through Blu-ray.com? IT WASN"T BLU-RAy.COM DOING THE COMPARISON! DOH!
Fanboyism? Nope, just can't stand when you guys try and bash Blu ray maliciously because you were HD-DVD owners. And now your trumping upscaling as the superior technology. Nice one
"Sorry but you'll just have to be in your own wee gang (Blu-ray.com) where you can endlessly agree with each other and applaud your selves for liking the same stuff."
Well tell me what "gang" your in so that we can carryon this discussion on a better medium than this.
"......do try to keep the tall stories down a tad & try not to bore each other to death too often tho, eh?"
No idea what this means.
Anyway you need to stop hiding behind the cloud that is the engadget comments section. Tell us where you are so that the conversation can be taken to another level rather than bickering that happens here.
Oh and i hope you didn't hit the "reply" because it wouldn't let you rather than trying to make a comment that i wouldn't see. But as this posting system is shit i'll give you the benefit of doubt.
Right you are A1.
10pm besides Big Ben (on the bridge side).
Let's sort this out once & for all......
....you climb up ontop the bridge & jump in.
Cut your losses, kill yourself.
At least it would stop your idiotic notions of........well, God knows what.
It's a discussion board. Wise up.
Dammed comments system!
Dr Sad
Anything from that purpose designed PS3 game console fanboy site Blu-ray.com automatically carries it's own 'health-warning' to anyone with a brain.
Similarly your desperate grasp at a single source speaks volumes (about you) and not in a flattering way.
Lastly.......
The truth is that "your precious format" isn't going anywhere and has
also lost
(and you got the shaft on the prices you paid).
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/07/03/sony-talks-future-of-oled-blu-rays-chances-against-dvd/#readercomments
Still LMAO most heartily at you.
The only way resolution+ "works" (that is, it will be successful) is if there's a notable difference between it and regular upscaling, but not between it and blu-ray. That would also have to mean that there's a difference between "regular" upscaling and blu-ray.
So for the consumer who can't see the difference? They will pass on this tech. For the consumer who can? You have to persuade them that this tech is "good enough" compared to blu-ray. Good luck with that.
Jesus Nfiinty and Truth Teller are still here bitching about Blu-ray and being Toshiba shills?
That's what I get for not looking to see that the link was to engadgethd.
Wow, Murph - for once - didn't do his usual paranoid illogical anti-Toshiba rant, and the thread has still descended into mindless pro- and anti-Blu-ray BS.
Building a good upscaler into a TV seems like a good idea to me. Funnily enough, most HDTV makers do, actually, do this already, this is just the latest upscaling technique to be deployed. Frankly, I'd be surprised if a TV maker didn't do this.
The only people who are really banging on about how this technology is an attempt to destroy Blu-ray are EngadgetHD and the Blu-ray fan crew, together with a few HD DVD partisans who overstate what this technology is capable of in the hope HD DVD's "rival" will somehow be challenged by this. There are good reasons why Blu-ray will fail, but DVD upscaling isn't really one of them except in that it helps with the "good enough" aspect of rival, lower resolution, technologies. The main advantage of better upscaling will not be to give HD to the masses cheaply - it physically isn't capable of doing that.
But building it into TVs and improving the image quality for lower resolution screens at the end-point means all forms of lower resolution are improved, increasing the chances of other technologies to be "good enough". If it makes 480i "look nice", imagine what it'll do to 720p24, of the type that most of the HD online download systems are doing. 720p24 means, at this time, an entire movie can be compressed with minimal artifacting for around 2G per hour of content.
And that's fantastic. We're starting to see the little pieces of infrastructure be created that ultimately will lead to a revolution in story telling. Post-decompression processing (such as upscaling), MPEG4, ubiquitous unmetered broadband. Toshiba is to be commended for working on this, and for putting it in a TV where it belongs, rather than in a DVD player where its ultimate utility is limited.
We lost a lot with the death of HD DVD as it really was the best platform in terms of being a collection of technologies that would have been just as at home on the Internet as on hard media discs, and thus would have enabled a smooth transition from DVD, through HD DVD, to a standardized set of online services. But with a bit of luck, its death is just a temporary set-back.
Who else thinks this thing is going to try to bring back edge enhancement?
This is going to be weird. "I'm going to create data from data".
At least the 120htz panels are just trying to equal the amount of data already present using TWICE the information in any one frame. This one wants to take a frame and create MORE data but won't call it upscaling.
You CAN do voxel based spacial analysis and rasterize the voxel after a spacial expansion. It's most likely some fancy edge detection and color analyzing raster expansion engine. Edge detect, overlay the grids mathematically, interpolate edge data through the raster expansion and finish your work and blend. Whoopie. The PS3's upscaler already looks like every frame photoshoped anyway.