Yes, Toshiba seems resigned to some sort of HD disc-free existence, as it continues to mope about HD DVD's loss to Blu-ray and refrains from releasing a player for the once rival format, but let's set all aside for the moment. We got a look at
Toshiba's new XD-E500 in action, and we must say: it does what it sets out to do. Most consumers will see a visible quality improvement when playing their DVDs, particularly in the realm of sharpness. Toshiba's new filters are "intelligent" enough to spice up the grass while leaving the sky and clouds free of noise, and while the contrast and color filters are less necessary, many consumers will enjoy their effect -- even if video purists would scoff at such alterations. As for usability, it couldn't really be much easier to flip on and off the three different enhancements, but there's also no customization of those modes to speak of. This $150 player isn't in any way Toshiba's Blu-ray killer, but thankfully the company actually seems to recognize that, and plans to market to Joe consumer who doesn't want to fork over the dough for a Blu-ray player or doesn't want to invest in a brand new video library, and won't be insulting videophiles' intelligence with claims to the contrary. If you're looking for something to magically make DVDs look like HD, this isn't it, but it bests Toshiba's best upconverter easily, and we'd venture to guess it's probably tops yours as well. All that said, Toshiba will have in store demos of the player at major retailers, and we'd highly recommend taking a gander for yourself before you take the plunge.
posted Aug 19th 2008 2:44PM
Better then my Oppo or Ps3 ?
I, too, would like to know this information. Unfortunately, it seems Engadget is more interested in raking Toshiba over the coals because it doesn't have a Blu-ray logo on the front.
I think the current cream of the crop for up converters is the Toshiba HD-XA2, so if the XD does a better job than the XA2, that is quite an accomplishment.
UnnDunn, I think you're right in general, but this particular article is nothing of the sort, and we should give them credit for changing their tack.
After the first sentence, they truly do "set [that] all aside", and actually evaluate the product for what it tries to be.
anyone figure out if this has spursengine or not?
My guess is no at this point. They would be screaming it from the rooftops. Depending on how charitable you feel Toshiba there were some crossed channels somewhere along the line concerning SUC / SRT and now XDE. Either that Toshiba pulled a switcharoo because they couldn't get SUC / SRT working in time.
I don't think this has the spurs engine. I went to Toshiba's site and read through everything and it sounds like a traditional upscaler with the 3 extra filters. I would like to see this player up against an Oppo or a player with one of the Silicon Optix HQV chips, and maybe a PS3.
does it take 30 minutes to boot up and play like the HD DVD players? ;)
last i checked the bulk of the bd players have the same issue with boot times.... that said with 3.0 firmware in my a2 it boots up fairly quick( haven't actually timed it i'm not really into this crap i just want to watch tv could care less how)
At the end of the day, this article isn't about comparing what the PS3 does to this player.
If you want to keep it that real, then even with all the features of the new upscaling in xDE and the cell, the PS3 could easily out do that because of 2 things:
1. the PS3's cell is faster and has more cores then the version Toshiba is using
2. the PS3 has the RSX to also help which you won't see in any DVD player (except if you use your PC or 360)
Anyways, this player in comparison to other upsampling DVD players is what really matters and it sounds like its good for that. Some people may argue that the difference in price isn't worth the extra quality of this upsampling player compared to others. I'd argue against this purchase for HD TV owners; just get Blu-Ray already. If you don't own an HD TV then Blu-Ray isn't needed but then again, neither is upsampling!
I guess you could sum this up by saying, you could spend an extra $50ish dollars to upsample DVDs a bit better vs buying a PS3 or comparable 2.0 player for $300ish dollars more to get upsampling and Blu-Ray. It all depends on your budget and how much of a tech junkie you are.
All I can say is for me, once I got used to Blu in 1080p, its really hard to watch upsampled DVDs. That's just me; I'm sure other people could care less. But this player is obviously not geared towards those that want true HD looking as good as it can; its meant to attract people who aren't jumping on the Blu wagon and want their DVDs to look a bit cleaner on their HD TVs.
i agree once you go blu its hard to watch upconverted dvds. i watched the matrix the other day on an upconverting player and it looked like a bootleg.
But would Sony ever build such an upconvertor into the PS3? There's a lot of debate as to whether good upscalers devalue Blu-ray by making it less compelling. Yes, upconversion cannot reach HD DVD/Blu-ray quality, but DVD can look pretty damned good upscaled. Good DVDs such as Live Free or Die Hard, Die Another Day, and the Star Wars trilogy, look absolutely excellent.
There's no doubt Sony can build this technology, the question is will they? Toshiba's attempts to push HD DVD players as "Excellent, cheap, up-convertors with an HD library available for them" came to naught. So it's not even clear Sony would push out more units by doing this.
UnnDunn, I'm with you on this one.. then I realized that Engadget is owned by Time-Warner, the same company that turned their backs on Toshiba so that they could support blu and kill the HD DVD format. But, at least like [like burndrive mentioned] they kept their views contained in the first sentence. As far as yesterday's title of "Toshiba stubbornly launches the un-Blu-ray...", that crap has got to stop.
Yeah, my PS3 does a real good job of upconverting DVDs, much better than my standalone Sony Upconverting DVD player, and would really like to see a side-by-side comparison.
Still wouldn't buy one though, even if it bests the PS3. You'd be better off saving your money and wait a few months to pick up a standalone BD player on Black Friday.
Most consumers will see a visible quality improvement compared to what? Over the top 5 up converting DVD players currently available? For you to make a statement like that with no reference to what standard you are comparing too is ludicrous.
It would be sweet if Toshiba released a new firmware for all existing HD DVD players that would add these additional filters! I wonder how much the hardware differs.
It would be even sweeter if these players had HD DVD drives in them so if down the road you want to pick up a HD DVD movie off ebay you could play it.
Even sweeter if it magically grew an ethernet port and the pre-requisite storage, plus all the circuitry to decode AVC, VC-1 plus various audio formats. Sadly I think this is just a DVD player. One which is distinguished by adding some edge enhancement to its upscaling.
I wonder what happened to SpursEngine. Maybe Toshiba wisely concluded that the margins aren't there to stick it in a DVD player, even one costing $150.
Come on enghd, how about putting up!
Certainly this story being listed on a HD site is controversial, so how about a real and fair comparison between this player, a standard DVD player and a blu ray of choice.
No doubts BR will win handsomely, but the comparisons would be very interesting to read......................and I'm sure there's a little thing like driving truckloads of traffic for that story!
.......and throw in an Oppo or an XA2 would be sensational!
If the blu ray would win handsomely, what would be the point? Better to compare to other upscalers. Better yet, take some screen caps so we can side by side compare the effect. My guess is the edge mode is just some EE done after the upscaling and we know how much people hate that.
It' will never happen, this site would be to scared the results wouldn't be very flash for blu and they'd loose the sony cash, no chance!
Wait...this isn't the super upscaler infinity talks about? Then why bother? If this is $150 then the spurs is probably $200 suggested retail and that is probably too much. This holiday season is going to suck in terms of HD movies.
Toshiba! You're gay! Just stop this nonsense and give in to the Blu already! No one wants to buy a unit for $150 just to sharpen their DVDs when they could get a used PS3 for $250 or so and have it used for more than watching DVDs.
Really? The whole company is gay, or just the folks who work in Toshiba's DVD production facility? And does it really matter if they're gay when it comes to a DVD player?
And out of the 6+ billion people on this planet "no one" will buy it? If they manage to sell one does that mean they're not gay?
It' will never happen, this site would be to scared the results wouldn't be very flash for blu and they'd loose the sony cash, no chance!
Prices for Blu-Ray players here in Canada for low profile players,are still out of site, price wise.
Movies are mostly $32 plus ... I have been buying HD-DVD movies for $5.00.
I have an A30 which upconverts bought DVD movies ... just great.
I also have a Pioneer DV-400 and a Onkyo SP405 (really a reboxed Pioneer) which
have saved my home made DVD's (w. a Panasonic DMR-ES25 whose HDMI output sucks)
and the Onkyo & Pioneer do just about a good a job as the A30, in upconversion.
The Video dac I saw at Toshiba's Site for the E-500 says it's 14bit/54MHZ ... this is impossible ... Isn't It?
Does anyone know different ??? ... and the Audio dac is only 24bit/96kHz.
One forum review also said the three enhancements, only work for a 1080p output to a 1080p flatscreen.
Unfortunately, my Sharp is a 1080i/720, so this player's enhancements are useless to me, although
one review said if you set it to "Auto" ... the 3 enhancements will come down to my Sharp... but how well !!!
... and with no control ....
Can anyone confirm this ?
Apparently all current BD Players suck at upconverting DVD's ... even the new Panasonics.
I wish Panasonic could divorce themselves from Sony, and build a 900 line recorder with better
HDMI output and a better BD Player with quality upconversion. Can't we have both ?
Adios,
Bob
To tarzn1950: go to the toshiba website and you will see that the player does all it's magic, even in 1080i.
As for a good review of the XD-E500, here's one taken on the Yahoo group : Thebombshelter. The review is made by Bill Cortner.
enjoy,
Alpha1
-----------
Well my Toshiba SuperUpConverter, re-named "XDE" came in
yesterday [Fedex Next-Day], and needless to say, I wasted
no time getting into some very extensive evaluations.
HARDWARE USED:
Sony KDL-46XBR5, 1080P, 120hz, 24fps, HD Display
Monster Cable 1000HD, 1-meter 10.2 Gbps HDMI cables
Onkyo DV-HD805 HD DVD + UpConverting DVD player [Silicon Optix]
Oppo DV-981HD UpConverting DVD player {Faroudja DCDi]
Toshiba HD-A35 HD DVD + UpConverting DVD player [Anchor Bay]
Toshiba XD-E500 Upconverting DVD player [Cel processor]
WIRING:
All devices were wired with identical HDMi cables,
and the signal path was direct-to-monitor [no switchers]
SOFTWARE:
Identical/twin-copies of the following HD DVD/SD DVD Combi discs...
American Gangster
Bourne Ultimatum
Hot Fuzz
Smokin' Aces
TESTING:
Identical discs were placed in competing players, cued up to
the exact same frame, and then started simultaneously.
Switching between opponents could be conducted at will,
and I frequently chapter-backed to watch a key element,
color, edge, texture, color, or pan/tilt/motion sequence
over and over again [ad nauseum].
I did not conduct these tests by myself.
I dragged my poor brother into this mind-bending,
eye-marathon, and he graciously sat there making his own
observations, with the intention being, that a 2nd opinion
would be rendered/posted for the group's consideration.
Special thanks also to Bruce [my brother] for providing
the 2nd identical/twin combi-discs that were needed to
conduct fair SD DVD to SD DVD as well as HD DVD to SD DVD
hardware performance evaluations.
FRAMING THE RESULTS:
I gave some thought to how I would go about putting into words
precisely what was revealed during this marathon session.
In the end, I decided that a 1-10 scale would be used.
Additionally, I'm going to frame the scale by defining what
a "1" and what a "10" represents, in a way that you can relate to.
1= VHS Tape
3= DVD at 480P, not Upconverted
10= HD DVD or Blu-ray at full 1080P on a full 1080P display
RESULTS:
Oppo DV-981HD UpConverting DVD to 1080P = 5
Toshiba HD-A30 UpConvert DVD to 1080P = 5
Onkyo DV-HD805 UpConvert DVD to 1080P [Reon Edge OFF] = 5.5
Onkyo DV-HD805 UpConvert DVD to 1080P [Reon Edge ON] = 6
Toshiba HD-E500 UpConvert DVD to 1080P = 8 [XDE ON]
Toshiba HD-E500 UpConvert DVD to 1080P = 7.8 [XDE + CONTRAST ON]
Toshiba HD-E500 UpConvert DVD to 1080P = 8.2 [XDE + COLOR MAPPING ON]
Onkyo DV-HD805 HD DVD at 1080P = 9.7 [Reon Edge OFF]
Onkyo DV-HD805 HD DVD at 1080P = 10 [Reon Edge ON]
VERBS, ADVERBS, ADJECTIVES AND WHATNOT:
This industry is so ripe with exaggerated claims, creative
interpretation of the numbers, and outright lies, that I'm
almost afraid to put into words what the preceding numerical
test results [clearly] reveal/indicate. Almost afraid, not... afraid.
[subtle but important difference, as with the numerical ratings].
Let's do this arse-backwards [reviewers always make you read
a lot of verbs, adverbs and whatnot before they generally say
anything even remotely useful, or God-forbid, controversial...
Stated simply, this Toshiba SuperUpConverter, which was renamed
"XDE" absolutely eats/annihilates the Silicon Optix HQV Reon,
and words can not even describe what it does to [formerly]
world-class/award-winning UpConverters like the Oppo DV-981HD
and the ABT-equipped 3rd generation Toshiba HD DVD players.
Look, unlike the big review sites... I have absolutely no axe
to grind here. This isn't my business, it's my hobby, and
I own...
(2) Oppo DV-981HD
(2) Toshiba HD-A35
(4) Onkyo DV-HD805
So it's not like I'm doing what human beings do...
Trying to justify their prior decisions/investments and
convince themselves/others that whatever they own is the
right thing to own... I honestly don't give a crap...
As I said the other day, let the chips fall where they may.
As to why that c/Net guy wrote an op-ed piece [not based on a test]
that went all-out to trash the SuperUpConverter, even going so
far as to suggest that the only thing XDE had to offer was
"edge enhancement"? Frankly, after spending 6 hours [two three
hour sessions with a good night's sleep to rest the eyes in between]
I am truly stunned and perplexed by this c/Net "opinion" [not test]
that is without a doubt, completely at odds with truth/reality.
The problem Toshiba faces here is the fact that the studios,
electronics manufacturers, B&M stores, online retailers, and
MAGAZINES/PRESS that get their income/revenue from advertising
funded by all of the above... are on a do or die mission to
try and convince everyone to buy Blu-ray Disc. Why? Because
DVD mas been around so long that it has matured [begun to stagnate].
For the 1st 9 years, DVD was up up up over every previous year.
But now it's leveled off, and begun heading down.
So to combat this, the studios, retailers and CE manufacturers
have gotten into a blow-em-out-cheap to make it up in volume
mentality that has totally eliminated/eroded the profit from
DVD software and hardware.
This is the REAL reason that the industry wants Blu-ray to succeed.
It's not because they want to give everyone better picture and
sound quality out of the goodness of their hearts...
It's because the are scared sh#tless about the downward trend
in DVD sales, as well as the continuing to erode profit margin
of yesterday's golden-goose... The consumer's beloved DVD.
Blu-ray Disc aims not to put high-definition in your living--room,
nut to put the profit back in sell-through movies [and players].
Blu-ray literally is the studios, retailers and CE manufacturers
wet-dream... An potentially very exciting product that, if adopted
by consumers, could turn into a PROFIT GRAVY TRAIN for all of them...
Thus solving their ever-looming DVD nightmare.
Is it therefore surprising that the preliminary "buzz" on
a new INEXPENSIVE DVD player, than IN FACT actually puts
your standard DVDs in the same [general] league as that
profit gravy train, errrrr Blu-ray Disc... is getting the bum's rush?
My opinion? Expect more similar hatchet jobs.
Back to the SuperUpConverter...
How good is it? OMG! This DVD player is a revelation!
It greatly increases detail, but does not increase noise/artifacts.
It was astonishing, and a little sad to watch this $149 player
produce a picture that mas MUCH more detailed AND much cleaner
than the Silicon Optix equipped Onkyo DV-HD805
Normally when you increase "sharpness", you increase "noise"
But there isn't the slightest hint of that happening with XDE.
Yet it's not only the detail/sharpness that leaps ahead of
any other UpConverter, it's everything! The color for example
looks like you washed tobacco/nicotine off your screen when
going from the Oppo DV-981HD, Toshiba HD-A35 or Onkyo DV-HD805
to the SuperUpConverter. That's the thing... True high-definition
video isn't just sharper, it's also got much better/more crisp color.
But the Toshiba XD-E500 gives you BOTH the sharpness you expect
from high-definition AND that crisp/vivid color!
What about side-effects, artifacts or problems?
Frankly, I got eye-strain trying to find something, anything
that the SuperUpConverter was getting "wrong" that the Silicon
Optix HQV Reon was getting "right" The verdict? Nada.
Whatever artifacts were visible on the XDE device were also
present and visible on the other conventional UpConverters.
I know- I know- The [...] question...
Is the SuperUpConverter a "Blu-ray killer"?
Well, since I don't own a Blu-ray player, I can't really say.
However, my opinion, based on evaluations of Blu-ray vs HD DVD
[using a PS3 and a Toshiba HD-A35 on a 46" Sony XBR5 a few months ago]
have left me with the very strong opinion that, assuming the same
transfer/encode/film... There is no visual difference between
Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD. Therefore, extrapolating on that previous
test... I am going to say that, NO, THE TOSHIBA XDE/SuperUpConverter
IS NOT a BLU-RAY [or HD DVD] KILLER.
That being said... The Toshiba XD-E500 at all times looked
like TRUE HIGH DEFINITION in terms of sharpness and color.
It literally blew me away, and it is without a doubt the
very best UpConverter I have ever seen.
This player's radical new approach of analyzing 9 frames
of video in real time is a quantum leap forward in upscaling
mechanics that deserves some kind of major tech/achievement award.
I want to repeat something to make sure you caught it...
The Toshiba XD-E500 at all times looked
like TRUE HIGH DEFINITION in terms of sharpness and color.
The bottom-line?
If you own even [...] DVDs? You would have to be crazy not
to invest a paltry [...] in a device that will in fact,
raise them to a level of performance that would convince
anyone that they were watching true HD video.
What else can I say other than don't wait for DVD 2.0
which any marketing major will tell you is exactly
one year away, and won't produce a picture any better than this!
It will just have HDi menu's IF the Blu-ray gravy-train
riding studios decide to support it... A very big if guys!
Where was I? Oh yeah...
BUY THIS PLAYER as soon as you can find it for [...] or less...
Do not buy it from Amazon... They are price/gouging and
charging [...] over the manufacturer's list price!
Circuit City offers it with free shipping for [...]
If anyone finds a better deal, please post it here
at TBS because anyone with a decent-sized DVD collection
definitely needs to own one of these DVD dream machines!
-Bill