Ask Engadget HD: What's the best plasma to pick up?
By Darren Murph 
posted October 15th 2008 12:00PM
posted October 15th 2008 12:00PM
"I've got my heart set on getting a new plasma on Black Friday or as the holiday sales get going, but I'm running into too many options that I think will work. Obviously, I want deep blacks and the ability to hang it on my wall, but I'm trying to keep the cost down. Are these Vizio PDPs even worth looking at? Is the KURO really the end-all answer? Help!"
Surely more than a few of you out there have plasmas -- KURO or otherwise -- and are willing to throw this guy a bone. No size was mentioned, but we're guessing he's looking in the 42- to 50-inch range. Have at it in comments below!
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Oh forgot one point..
Furthermore, manufactures will include all risk factors, no matter how big, how small, how insane, and every possible misuse scenarios, to limit their responsibility when it comes to warranty coverage. The definition of "normal use" out of these warranties are pretty narrow and strict. If one is avoiding a certain product because the warranty does not cover severe and gross misuse of product, then no one will ever purchase anything....
Yes, image retention and image burn in CAN occur with plasma sets, and can ALSO occur with CRT sets, but it is not that likely. Of course a manufacturer will not encourage misuse, no matter how gross and severe, and this is reflected in the warranty service contract.
Oh a few other points...
1. There is a resurgence of plasma sales recently. As a matter of fact, this was reported right here at EngadgetHD.
2. I have yet to read a single review from any reviewers who prefer LCD over plasma. These are people who understand the science behind the technologies and have trained eyes, and they pick plasma over LCD over and over. They know better than the average consumers or sales persons.
3. The sales of HDTV sets above 50"/52" has always been plasma over LCD, past and present. LCD sets larger than 52" are prohibitively expensive and performs far inferior to plasma sets of the same sizes.
I have a Panasonic 800u and its performance is comparable to the Kuro. Save some money for a new receiver, blu ray player, or the end of civilization as we know it.
A correction to a comment from "Why not LS2LS7":
First of all, it is not true that plasma sets produce more light output than CRT sets.
Maximum light output for both plasma and CRT technologies are dependent on so many factors such as the actual phosphor coating (both plasma and CRT), display size (CRT, as it is a giant electron gun and a vacuum tube), peak cathode ray current (CRT), program material (plasma, full screen vs partial screen), etc, etc, etc...
The average CRT light output can vary from 20FL up to 200FL! The larger the CRT, the dimmer it is. How would you think projection CRT TVs worked...? CRTs can get super bright! The average plasma maximum light output with full screen on is 40FL and some modern plasma models up to 60FL. LCDs average from 100FL to 140FL. Plasma sets actually has the lowest average light output as compared to other modern direct view display technologies. So the argument that plasma sets produce more light than CRT as a contributing factor for image burn in and image retention is invalid. Do'nt get me wrong, plasma is plenty bright, because the ideal average FL for a direct view display such as CRT, LCD, or plasma is 25FL-35FL (10FL-11Fl for projection displays).
All phosphorous emissive display monitors are prone to image burn in. However, there are also many factors contributing to image retention and image burn in other than the decay of of the phosphorous coating. Plasma technology is interesting that it is like a complex array of florescent cells, but with phosphorous light emission. Instead of having an electron gun shooting electrons within a vacuum tube towards a phosphorous surface in a scanning manner to excite the phosphorous layer to produce light as in a CRT set, plasma sends high voltage through cells (pixels) containing inert and low pressure gas, which produces UV light, and is this UV light that excites the phosphorous coating to produce light. Image burn in has to do with the permanent alteration of the phosphorous coating from too much and prolonged energy exiting it, so it depends on sooo many factors... And there have been so many changes with modern plasma technology to get into details here... Trust me on this, modern plasma sets about as rugged as CRT sets when it comes to burn in issues...
For SteveMak, Panasonic does cover burn in. It's not advertised but if they can not remove the burn in issue they will replace your panel. I believe LG does the same.
All CRTs and Trinitrons "suffer" from the same problem. I've had my Sony Trinitron for well over 10 years and I have no signs of phosphor burn.
Phosphor burn results when you have a static image on the screen for hours on end.
There is no perfect display technology out there but I think you're making a big deal out of nothing.
Price no object get the Pioneer!
Price an object look at the new LG Plasmas, huge difference over last years Plasmas.
I think the Panasonic TH103PF9UK would be your best choice. For the size, 103 inches, its reasonably priced (i.e. there aren't any others). It's available now for just under $70k.
http://www.plasma.com/panasonicplasma/th103pf9uk.htm
Whys evrybody breaking balls on Vizo? I have several Plasma Models .. a Haier 42" 720p/1800i , a Vizio 60" 720p/1080i, Samsung 50" 720p/1080i are the PLASMAs and a 30" 1080p LG LCD ... yes I like to buy "el cheapo" cause everybody in the house wants a PDP... but you know what? The only one I have had problems with is the Samsung... all the other cheapos LOOK great with SatHD, Xbox360 and PS3 Blu's pushing signal through em...the only thing is you HAVE to manually adjust the settings.....And another thing I noticed on the "Cheapo's" underneath the shells are LG/hitachi electronics and panels... so what gives? BTW I have had the Haier the longest 3 years black friday special and the Viz' for 2 1/2 and absolutlely no probs whatsoever. Sure Id love a Kuro... who wouldnt't... but after taking HEAVY losses on out mutual funds and 401k's I just cant afford or plan to buy one. In todays uncertain financial times Im glad that at least us middleclass peeps have such great choices and value brands like Viz... thanks Viz.
Another vo e for the Panasonic TH-PZ85u series.
Get yourself a 9 series LED backlighted LCD from Samsung. With 120hz and blacks that are blacker then any Kuro could hope for, this is the one one to own.
As an owner of a Panasonic 50" Plasma and a 8th Gen Pioneer 50" 1080p Kuro I will say this:
- Panasonic 50" 1080p Plasma - $1900
- DVDO EDGE Video Processor - $700
- Contrast, and Black Levels of a KURO - Priceless
There are some things processing can't provide, for everything else there is KURO.
In all seriousness though, the new generation Panasonics are fantastic TV's for the money, I think a great combo would actually be the new DVDO EDGE to handle processing duties and a Panasonic PDP as the display, the end result would be in some cases cleaner than a KURO, it would be fantastic. For info on the DVDO EDGE check out AVS forum, I am sure Google will turn up some good stuff too.
I do not regret the KURO purchase at all, I am a huge video nut and really picky on blacks. I am waiting to get my main TV ISF calibrated, should be soon.
Andrew
I just got rid of a Panasonic Pz80u and replaced it with a Samsung 50" Series 6 plasma. It has more setting options to dial in the picture quality. The blacks are deep and crisp. It has rich and true colors. It has a number of features to prevent burn in/image retention. I am watching Beowulf right now in HD on my LG Super Blu player and the picture is STUNNING. Yes I think that the Pioneer is the best HD TV on the market bar none. My Samsung had the best features, quality and price as a whole. The TV retailed for 2300.00. I purchased it on sale at Circuit City for 1665.00 + tax.
I challenge anyone to find a better picture in a 50" at a better price. The Pioneer looks better but with my savings I purchased an Onkyo 805 receiver, LG Super Blu player and a Monster Power 3600 stage 3 to clean up the power with a Harmony 1 remote to rule it all. After people see the picture and hear my Klipsch 5.1 surround system with 12 inch Velodyne sub I have to put people out of my house!
I'm seeing one thing overlooked in this discussion - viewing angle!
LCD simply does not offer the viewing angle a plasma does. You need to take this into consideration if you're not going to be sitting directly in front of the panel at all times. Poking your head out of the kitchen to see what's going on on your LCD panel will not necessarily mean that you can view the picture from that angle. Plasmas dont suffer from this drawback.
I've had my 42" well over 7 years now and it still outperforms many LCD displays. The burn-in / retention issues have not been a factor for me - mostly because I alway keep the screen filled with a picture and I'm not a gamer. Common sense in this matter goes a long way.
LCD displays do have the advantage of less panel glare than plasma, but the plasma manufacturers are certainly getting better. It's never been a problem for me. What really baffles me is why manufacturers are using shiny reflective bezels around the panels, whether LCD or plasma. Who came up with that stupid idea? Why not try mirrors?
For the record, I have a 4th generation 42" ($5300!), an 8th generation 50" ($3200!), and have just purchased the 11th generation 50" 1080p ($1475) Panasonic plasma.