http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/ Engadget Comments for http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 12:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 12:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 12:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
Panasonics are generally considered to be the next best, but the current name brand models from Samsung and LG are also very good. The new Hitachi's are also excellent (the old versions black levels were LCD like). Any of those are more reliable than Vizio generally. Not that the new Vizio's are bad, I'd just take any of the name brands first. I'm going to be looking for a second model myself over the holidays. If a Pioneer 50 inch 1080p is close to 2 grand grab it, but I wouldn't count on it. I'd bet at least one of the other brands will be damn near a $1,000 and it will be very, very tempting.

Though Vizio is miles above any Best Buy house brand like Insignia or Dynex.]]>Oct 15th 2008 12:31PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 12:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 3:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 12:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 12:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 12:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 12:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
Kuro is the best... but not $2k better than Panny mentioned above.]]>Oct 15th 2008 12:50PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 12:56PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 1:01PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
Plus the 50PZ800U just looks sweet w/ the one piece of glass design... I'm excited, i just hope it comes down into my price range... 1600 anybody? lol]]>Oct 15th 2008 1:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Maybe you should check prices NOW... because that 5020 is $3k from best buy.....
If you are going to point out a mistake you better make sure you are not making one.

So to restate my argument the 5020 is not $1k better than the 50PZ800U.



]]>Oct 15th 2008 2:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
I guess they raised it back to 3000. How about www.plasmaconcepts.com, they have the Kuro 5020 for $2445.30....]]>Oct 15th 2008 3:22PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 16th 2008 11:20AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
1. 100,000 Hour Panasonic Plasma Panel

2. 10-bit Display (1 billion colors vs. 8-bit's 16.7 million colors.... goodbye halos)

3. Uses a Silicon Optix HQV Video Processor (used in Denon, Marantz, and Onkyo products.... equivalent Sony video processor is found on their XBR models.... a 52" Sony XBR is about $4,000).

4. I'm guessing the Vizio XVT 50" 1080p plasma will sell for $1,399. Why? Because their current 1080p 50" plasmas are selling for $1,399 or less at Costco and Sam's club and these models and the upcoming XVT 50" plasmas have a MSRP of $1,699.

Look here: http://www.vizio.com/productDetails.aspx?id=1600&pid=1502]]>Oct 15th 2008 1:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 2:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
What you're griping about is with respect to Panasonic's choice in video processing and not necessarily their plasma panels. Pioneer is or will be using Panasonic panels for their Kuros.

The Silicon Optix HQV video processor in the Vizio VP505XVT will pretty much handle the things you're griping about with respect to the Panasonic Plasma HDTVs' video processing (and not necessarily the panels themselves).

Here's what you can expect from the upcoming Vizio VP505XVT Plasma HDTV with respect to video processing: http://www.hqv.com/technology.cfm (the videos are worth watching).]]>Oct 15th 2008 4:39PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 6:20PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 1:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
that is the ghost image from multilayer glass, that becomes obvious with white text on a black backgound.]]>Oct 22nd 2008 1:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 1:53PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
I got it right when they came out and found the $1899 price, though even the week after I bought it the price shot up to $2199 (I think because of demand for this particular model).

If you want to spend less than $2000 I don't think you will find anything that compares.]]>Oct 15th 2008 1:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 1:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 1:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.brothersontech.com/product/2299

]]>Oct 15th 2008 1:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 10:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 1:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://hdguru.com/panasonic-premiere-th-65vx100-the-new-king-of-flat-panels-exclusive-first-review/276/]]>Oct 15th 2008 1:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
IMHO if you have the funds buy one of the Pioneer 60" displays their inky black levels cannot be rivaled which is key in darkroom viewing, but if you are having a hard time with that price tag buy the 58" Panasonic over the 50" Pioneer.

]]>Oct 15th 2008 2:10PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 3:55PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 2:14PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 3:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 5:09PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 3:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
Pioneer FTW!]]>Oct 15th 2008 3:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 3:35PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 8:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/Oct 15th 2008 4:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
No amount of "proper care" can prevent plasma's burn-in. And unless you are prepared to crop and/or distort your screen image to always fit to a full 16:9, avoid banners (like CNN), and logos (like Discovery, History Channel, National Geographic channel, etc), and don't play video games that have score boards, borders, or fixed content like a HUD or a dashboard, and don't freeze-frame for any significant length of time, you will get burn-in.

Manufacturers have done all sorts of clever things to make burn-in less noticable like pixel shifting (to make burned-in images blurred), showing gray bars intead of black (burn in more slowly), and marketing material ("60,000 hour half-life" leads some buyers think this means time to visible burn-in), but the bottom line remains unchanged: Plasma will burn in.

BTW, I understand that some folks may not notice burn-in. Similarly, some folks don't notice a 4:3 image stretched on a 16:9 screen.]]>Oct 15th 2008 4:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
Phosphor burn results when you have a static image on the screen for hours on end.

There is no perfect display technology out there but I think you're making a big deal out of nothing.]]>Oct 15th 2008 4:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/If you would take time to read the question... the person said the want blacks and not grays, so plasma is the only way to go..
Sammy's LED does produce good blacks but it also produces halos.

And shut up about burn in is "Inherent" in Plasmas design. It is much less likely.

I have a 50PZ800U and I dont stretch anything. I have yet to see any bit of burn in. And before you say... I can tell what burn in is.... my father had a first gen plasma which was terrible.

I play PSWii60 all the time (4-5 hrs straight of halo and COD4) and watch movies that have black bars and do not get any of the ghosting.

Stop blowing stuff out of proportion

Sorry for the rant and the never ending comment. Sorry for extending the comment with saying sorry...crap]]>Oct 15th 2008 4:33PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
Burn-in is permanent. This is very rare now with plasma's. Can it happen? Sure if you're stupid enough to have your TV in torch mode playing CNN non-stop

Image retention IS something that plasmas will give you. Playing video games for a while or watching a 2.35:1 movie, I will see the bars or a games health bar in another image, but it goes away quickly.

For better PQ than LCD, I can more than live with some negligible IR.]]>Oct 15th 2008 5:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
Burn-in is permanent. This is very rare now with plasma's. Can it happen? Sure if you're stupid enough to have your TV in torch mode playing CNN non-stop

Image retention IS something that plasmas will give you. Playing video games for a while or watching a 2.35:1 movie, I will see the bars or a games health bar in another image, but it goes away quickly.

For better PQ than LCD, I can more than live with some negligible IR.]]>Oct 15th 2008 5:44PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
You cannot prevent burn-in (like by breaking in like some people say) and you cannot remove it except by analyzing the burn-in and burning the unburnt pixels more to match the burned ones.

Plasmas burn more than CRTs because they output so much more light, also the lack of image drift with temperature and bloom means that the burned areas' edges do not get feathered.

Is this the end of the world? No, maybe not. But if you do view 4:3 content on your plasma without swirling on, you will eventually see the edges of the 4:3 image on a grey screen some day. Hopefully (and depending on the panel, likely) it won't be something you can't overlook in normal use. God knows my LCD has image quality issues (mostly uneven backlight) that I manage to overlook in day to day use.]]>Oct 15th 2008 6:47PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
Since I have both LCD and plasma sets in the house, I can tell you that I have accidentally fell asleep while leaving my plasma sets with fixed banners from CNN on all night, and there was a retention issue that resolved by itself within 20 min or so, but no permanent image burn in issues. This was verified with all white field video test signals with varying setting of contrast level and gamma curves after the fact.]]>Oct 16th 2008 6:11AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/(1) Modern plasma sets do not get burn-in
(2) You're over-reacting to the fact that plasmas are susceptible to burn-in
(3) *My* plasma has no burn-in, so so I'm okay

Note that I am *not* flaming plasma consumers, nor criticizing them for their choice. That's *their* choice. The decline of plasma's popularity, and the rise in LCD's popularity (which are typically more expensive than plasma per diagonal inch of HDTV, and which owns a bigger market share than plasma), is showing a trend that consumers, as a whole, are making different choices.

As soon as someone can point me to a manufacturer whose warranty covers burn-in on their high-quality plasma HDTVs, then I will add plasma to my list of prospective technologies for my next HDTV.]]>Oct 16th 2008 9:27AMhttp://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/15/ask-engadget-hd-whats-the-best-plasma-to-pick-up/
But your points have several flaws:
1. No one is claiming image burn in will not occur with plasma displays. It is just not as easily done now days. It is comparable with CRT sets. If one chooses not to purchase a plasma set solely on the issue of image burn in, then the same should be applied to CRT sets. Yet, CRT sets have been used for video game consoles in the past...
2. LCD displays are more expensive than plasma sets. However, the trend of LCD sets selling over plasma sets are of the following factors:
A. LCD sets are brighter but with poorer black level and shadow detail performance. The human eye is drawn towards bright displays, that is why all displays on the sales floor, whether it is LCD, plasma, CRT, are all set to very high color temperature and very bright. This is one of the primary reason why LCDs sold better in the past.
B. Plasma sets typically are available only for 37" and bigger, with most common sets 50" or above. Majority of the consumers purchasing HDTV are purchasing sets 37" and smaller, therefore the choices are severely biased towards LCD sets.
C. Almost 100% of the sales persons at common consumer electronics stores have very low level and often mistaken knowledge of the science behind these technologies, and they push for LCD sets, which are eye pleasing and bright.

The rise of LCD sales is very similar to audio brands like BOSE selling well. Quality audio and video performance takes some training to understand and spot, and there are a lot of tricks manufacturers know how to fool the ears or eyes to cover up substandard performance. However, once a person knows how to spot certain performance issues, it is often very difficult to go backwards as one can notice the performance issues all the time... It is why many who chose plasma sets, when buying new sets, tends to choose plasma sets again. This is even true for ones who own both technologies (like myself).]]>Oct 16th 2008 10:44AM