We've
beaten this bush down before, but it seems that the issue is cropping up once more: Blu-ray Discs are taking ages to ship from
Netflix. A recent
CNET piece on the quandary took a closer look at why we're all paying more (
$1 per month, but still) to get less. According to company spokesman Steve Swasey, the problem is twofold. First off, Hollywood simply "isn't providing enough Blu-ray copies of newly released films as the company would like to get," and secondly, Netflix is being ultra-cautious about spending too much dough on BD. Sure, some
500,000 customers are signed up to receive them, but that's a small chunk of the
9 million total that it serves. According to Steve: "These things [Blu-ray Discs] cost money. We deploy money where we think it's going to be most efficient to keep subscribers and investors happy. It's always check and balances." So, we're interested in seeing just how bad the issue is for our readers in particular -- drop your vote / rants below.
posted Dec 20th 2008 12:00PM
where's the "short wait" option on the poll?
"These things [Blu-ray Discs] cost money. We deploy money where we think it's going to be most efficient to keep subscribers and investors happy. It's always check and balances."
That would be an ok answer if they weren't charging people extra for Blu-Ray access. Why should people pay extra (I know it's just $1, but still) for something they can't access?
Hardly any waits on Blu-ray discs here. I get most of my BD's the day after they ship and I often get them the day of release if I queue them up early. But then again I'm in a smaller market and I don't rent tons of new releases (which apparently increases your chance of getting "Long Wait" statuses).
But it is still pathetic that Netflix is going to charge blu-ray renters a premium and then try to blame their inability to fulfill orders on Hollywood not supplying them with enough discs or how expensive BD's are. People don't want to hear excuses when you charge them extra for a service.
I'm in Los Angeles, which is about as movie-crazy as a place can be, and I get everything I want without delay. Then again, I didn't rent Dark Knight. But I did get Wanted day after it came out from Netflix.
One thing though: I don't try to get three shipments a week. The slow turnaround is a my end. Maybe they like me better for that.
Bushes are to be beaten around, not beaten down, please.
Blaming NetFlix for this problem is more ridiculous than getting movies via the mail. Blu Rays are 29.99 for a reason!! It's not the fault of NetFlix that people are having a problem getting to rent them for a monthly fee. Where is reality in these discussions? Q.
You actually think Netflix actually pays MSRP for BD's? Yes Blu-ray are more expensive we all know that. But 500,000 extra dollars a month can cover a heck of a lot of those Blu-ray premiums.
If Netflix is charging people extra to receive Blu-ray discs then the expectation is that the process of shipping of those blu-rays should run just as smoothly as it does for DVD's. If a dollar isn't enough then make it five. But make it reliable or don't bother doing it at all.
Charging a premium for a service and then trying to cover your ass with excuses like "but these things are expensive!" is an example of poor management and and a an attempt to avoid responsibility for your decisions. If the fee you charge isn't enough to do the service right then the mistake is yours, not your customers. They have every right to expect the same standards of service from you as they get from your other plans.
minimalist Said: "You actually think Netflix actually pays MSRP for BD's?"
Well, I don't know how it works now, but my ex-brother in law owned a video rental store about 15 years ago, and back then you had to buy the movies WAY beyond purchase price if you were a rental store. They had there own prices based on that they were renting and I'm talking like a hundred dollars for a movie you could buy for 15 bucks.
Likely Blu-rays cost a mighty hefty sum, so when you consider they know an exact percentage of their subs that will POSSIBLY rent that title, as opposed to all subs possibly renting a title, it's not hard to see that it might take a few months of tracking data before they start to have a good idea for how many copies they should buy for each given rental area.
I have had movies(DVD) ship from Florida and Cali and a few other places since I'm a big movie fan and order a wide range of titles, some of which are not the most popular. Netflix doesn't have a central shipping office for the whole country, they have to buy copies for each area and gauge the interest in each.
I know most people think that rental stores just pay the street price, and that if a title is really renting, they can run over to Bestbuy and pick up 15 more copies at 20 bucks a pop so they can rent more, but that's just not how it works.(unless it has changed since I got a peek at how it was working.)
Regardless of whether they pay street price, MSRP, or more doesn't make a lot of difference. The relative cost of DVD's to Blu-rays will still remain proportional whatever the markup. One would think that studios would be more interested in getting a cut of each rental than just making money on the purchase of the movie.
But this is sort of besides the point. The fact remains Netflix is making 500,000 dollars extra a month off of blu-ray customers and now they are tossing out lame excuses for why that extra money is buying us worse service than those that pay less than us. If they can't provide the same standard of service that DVD renters have come to expect then why the heck bother? All you'll end up doing is ticking off your higher paying customers who make a lot of noise all over the web.
Like I said before if a dollar isn't enough to stock up on these discs then make it more. But don't point fingers when you foul your pricing plan. Just do it right or don't do it at all. Bad BD service will just hurt your reputation and give you PR headaches.
The netflix subscriber base as of September was 8.41 million. Assuming that they get an average of 10 dollars per customer that's 80 million dollars. At 12 dollars per it's over a hundred million.
That would mean the Blu-ray surcharge represents about .5% of their monthly revenue.
It's tough to know whether that's a good amount or not, but it sure doesn't seem like a huge percentage to me.
Don't get me wrong, we are both kind of speculating here without know the internal costs related to this, but keep in mind these are Discs that the vast majority of Netflix users will never rent since they either don't have a blu-ray player or don't want to pay the surcharge.
Any DVD that netflix purchases or leases the rights to rent have a chance to be rented by every sub, including those paying the surcharge, whereas blu-rays will only be rented to those paying the surcharge.
If I had a product I knew that over 94% of my customers wasn't even going to consider, it probably wouldn't even be available.
For me that surcharge is not over priced.
Also, keep in mind that almost all the posts here say that there IS NOT a greatly noticeable longer wait on Blu-rays VS DVDs.
So before you go talking about raising the price of the surcharge to cover the supposedly bad wait times, consider that if the wait times are comparable to DVDs that you are also asking for the DVD prices to be raised to lower the wait times that people have on DVDs as well.
Netflix is not for people that have such a short attention span that they can't wait a day or two and still be in the mood to watch the movie they wanted to watch just days before.
Someone like that needs to drop Netflix and sign up at Hollywood, Blockbuster, and their local grocery stores so they can run to all those local places and find the movie they want within hours of when they want it.
"That would mean the Blu-ray surcharge represents about .5% of their monthly revenue."
And whose fault would this be? 500,000 blu-ray customers out of 8.5 million means that 6% of their customers are paying extra for Blu-ray rentals. If Netflix can't make this work its certainly not because they don't have enough paying customers. It's just bad business planning on their part.
"If I had a product I knew that over 94% of my customers wasn't even going to consider, it probably wouldn't even be available."
And you wouldn't be a long-tail business like Netflix either. 6% of 8.5 million people is nothing to scoff at anymore.
"Also, keep in mind that almost all the posts here say that there IS NOT a greatly noticeable longer wait on Blu-rays VS DVDs."
Obviously its enough to cause a pretty big stink. 28% of the respondents on this site alone claim they are having problems.
And the point still stands. if you pay more for somehting you expect at least get the same level of service as those that pay less than you. I love Netflix but I won't sweep their bad habits under the rug.
Why would anyone be willing to apologize for bad service?
Your problem is perception, and your whole argument hinges on what you, in your opinion, think is bad service.
There is no "Get your new release in 5 days or it's Free!" Guarantee at Netflix. It never promoted itself as a replacement to getting a movie in the same time window that you would from a video store.
Your view that these wait times are Bad service is your opinion.
I, and obviously many customers of Netflix, never expected to get EVERY new release the day after it came out(Based on these posts, many DO get it right away.).
We expected to never pay a late fee, rent as many movies as we wanted for one flat fee, and have access to a library of titles far larger than any one video store could ever hope to offer.
There are different services for different customer needs, as I mentioned in the last post I made. If you are someone that can't handle not getting your product at the speeds Netflix offers than maybe it's not for you.
As you Stated, over 70% of the people here posting that use Netflix don't feel like there is a problem, because to them there isn't one. Their expectation of what service Netflix should offer for the price they charge is not the same as the 28% that seem to think Netflix should burn 8.4 Million DVDs when they first release so everyone can get the new release in the first few days it's out.
Just so you know, with those numbers the service isn't going to change, and for that 70+% that will be just fine, because for most customers, the other bonuses Netflix offers that I mentioned outweigh the bonus of having a new release Always available the first few days it releases.
I have seen "short wait" once.
I keep 20-30 movies listed in my queue at all times. I don't expect to get a release on the first week (even with the $1 fee). If you guys are so desperate for a movie the day it comes out. Then buy it.
For example Wall-E. I wanted that that one so I bought it, but the latest Mummy didn't get the greatest reviews so I got it through Netflix this weekend along with Get Smart.
I consider Netflix a "casual" service to help fill in the gaps in my movie watching, and I suspect 80% or more of it's subscribers are like that too. I don't think people expect Netflix to buy 500,000 of every new release and send it out. If you do then you should be paying 5x your monthly fee to get it.
I havent had to wait at all. I recieved tropic thunder two days after it was released and I had only added it to my ques the day before.
I'm over there on the ChiWax's side of reality. Blu-ray is more expensive, the production facilities are not what DVD has available to it, etc.
Just looked at my Que; Tropic Thunder, which is new and popular and been out a month, is now listing Short Wait. Sorry to say, in my area, that's about the same as DVDs. Blu-rays that have been out months like the Orphanage are listed as Now, though I still haven't gotten around to moving that up to the top of the que yet.
As some have noted, if I send discs back so they will arrive Monday and Tuesday, the chance I'll get a new release jumps to like 93% or something.
So, if I really really wanted a certain movie the first day it's out I can go to a bit of trouble to increase the odds.
I have a full que as is though, so it's pretty easy to come up with something to see.
The price is fair, and the waits are not what they used to be for Blu-ray, even if they aren't perfect, so you won't find me complaining that I burn through about 12+ movie and TV discs a month for 27 bucks or so.
Update, Tropic Thunder which was short wait when I looked last week, shipped today.
It should be noted I moved it to the top when I posted the message this is a reply to and that the first disc that got to them is the one that's now coming as tropic thunder.
I'm not seeing a bigger wait on Blu-rays really.
Its not just Blu-ray,new release dvd's take forever.
I never have to wait. im in miami florida. added to the que the day dark knight was out. got it in 2days. have gotten step brothers, horton wall-e and wanted with no wait.
i guess it matters where u are. by the way the nightmare b4 christmas is the best blu ray ever
No waits here. I've gotten movies right away even when it says "Long Wait"
i am still waiting for Hellboy 2 and kung-fu panda blu-ray. I placed them on my que a couple weeks before the release date. I am planning to go Blockbuster after this month billing cycle. At least I can go into the store and get new blu-ray releases.
No waits for me. But then again it helps living 20 miles away from the closest depot. Ship off a blu ray one morning. Netflix receives it the next morning and ships out the same day. I get my next blu ray title by Day 3. This applies to movies already Available or a Short Wait. Best $1 I spend every month.
I have Blu Ray disks at the top of my queue that say "Now' yet havent been shipped yet.
Despite the fact that I went "purple" 9 months ago, this will probably be taken the wrong way: I'm sitting on 3 HD DVD's that I received just before 12/15!
I do plan on paying the extra buck a month for Blu, just haven't done it...yet.
Has anyone else considered the fact that Netflix will no longer sell used disc? I don't know what the revenue that was generated from past sells, but why would a company cut off any source of revenue?
Netflix doesn't want to invest any more money than they have to in blu-ray discs.
After CES 2009 it will be a whole new ballgame.
Unless you know how to manipulate the system your brand new releases may take awhile to get, but if you do you will receive your disk either the day it is releases or the day after.
I've had "Hancock" on Long Wait status for a couple of weeks now. I did get "When We Left Earth" pretty quickly, however.
Overall, BD shipping is usually not TOO bad
Oh yeah, I'm in Seattle...
I was hoping to see shorter wait times once the Blue Ray fee was implemented. Instead, the wait times seem to have gotten worse! NetFlix should not have implemented an extra fee if they did not plan to do something about the wait times for current release Blue Ray movies. This problem is not unique to Blue Ray movies however. Even before Blue Ray, the recent releases of popular movies always had a very long wait.
What I want to know is this: How can Blockbuster guarantee availability of recent releases while NetFlix guarantees very long waits?
Netflix doesn't guarantee long waits. Its different for everyone but saying that they guarantee long waits is ridiculous. Its an estimate, it depends on how fast people return their copies. Dell estimated (not guaranteed) my laptop would take 4-6 weeks to build and ship. I got it in a week. It felt like forever but it was far less than they said.
Blockbuster guarantees availability ? Unless things have changed, that simply means you get a raincheck. If they run out, they run out, what are they going to do, find another copy and get it to you that same day ? Major releases get a lot of copies and thats in DVD, how many Blu-rays do they have ? And for the smaller releases, if they even carry them ?
Btw, the extra fee I consider is for them to even allow us the option of renting Blu-rays. I mean for almost 2 years we were allowed this at no extra cost and you should be grateful for that. Who else offered that at the time, let alone with no increase in price ? Complaining about a measly dollar for a service that is totally worth it and more, is silly. If you want to go that far, there are other things in life we're truly overcharged for that you can be vocal about.
Why is the shipping time for a Blu Ray title longer in one location than another? "Wanted" has been in my queue for weeks and weeks and another poster said it shipped within days. Since the extra fee went into effect my Blu Ray shipments (Hartford) have slowed to a trickle. My finger has been on the cancel button many times. Pretty soon, I'm going to have no choice but to push it.