LCD vs Plasma in 2009
posted January 16th 2009 11:00AM
Although the debate between LCD and plasma has raged on for years, the real battle only started two years ago when manufacturers started producing LCDs big enough to go head to head with plasmas. Now that it has been raging for two years, we've seen some interesting trends develop. LCDs have been very successful at pushing plasma out of its most popular size, 42-inches, and some manufacturers have stopped producing that size all together. Also a result of the success of LCDs, the number of plasma manufactures has decreased over the past two years. Pioneer is the most notable to announce its plan to stop producing its own plasmas starting with the next model and will instead buy glass from Panasonic, but Hitachi and Phillips have also announced similar plans -- and Fujitsu got out of the display business all together. Some might use these events combined with the latest green movement to conclude that plasma is dead, but not so fast.
Plasmas still offer the best value in the 50+ sizes and the best contrast and color reproduction -- which any videophile will tell you is way more important than brightness, which seems to be sole reason why the masses prefer LCD. And plasmas aren't completely in the grave yet -- in fact, most of the biggest manufactures still sell plasmas including Panasonic, Samsung, LG, Hitachi, Pioneer, and Vizio. In fact, recently things have actually started to turn around for the PDP sector. The most notable trend is that the latest plasmas from Hitachi, Pioneer, LG, and Panasonic all pass the latest stringent Energy Star requirements of the 208-Watt "on mode" and less than 1-Watt "standby mode." And the market is showing this comeback as well which is indicated by the latest DisplaySearch report which showed that plasma sales grew by 37 percent year-over-year in the third quarter of 2008 -- in a time that is very hard time for any market to show growth.
So while no technology can be successful forever, plasma has at the very least a few years left, and we believe it won't be LCD that will kill it. The only technology that actually seems poised to replace it is OLED, and with the biggest (and only) consumer model at 11-inches, there is plenty of time left on the clock for plasmas. That being said, we only see two main markets for plasmas moving forward as LCDs continue to grow in size and shrink in price. The first being videophiles who demand the best contrast and color money can buy, and the second being value shoppers looking for a way to buy a 60-inch TV for as close to $2000 as possible. But with the latest LCD LED-backlit displays making huge strides in color and contrast, and Laser TVs hitting the streets, anyone who tells you they know what is going to happen in the next 18 to 24 months has no idea what they're talking about.
I was watching a friend's Samsung 5 series LCD last night with transformer's on blu-ray. It was a horrible experience.
Did he touch you?
ROFL!
That gave me a great laugh this morning.
How awful for you to have to suffer through a whole movie on a pitiful Samsung LCD TV. The humanity!
I bet it did suck, that movie was terrible! It would be a bonus if he did touch you however so report back!
:)
so i assume there still are burn-in possiblities w/using a plasma and also if you move it after setting it up; does that still affect the picture?
those are two huge factors for most of us renters :)
don't hate on transformers
im sorry the transformers movie did suck compared to the original show. though the cgi was nice.
EricBrady - funniest comment I have read on here in a while. I literally laughed out loud. Thanks!
I have a 40" 6-series and it looks incredible. Although it is a pretty big step up...
Reeaaalllylyyy hope you're joking Spiza... The 5 series was by far the best value LCD for the money when I got it 6 months ago. To get anything better you'd have to spend closer to 2 grand or go plasma, and plasmas suck energy, have burn-in possibilities, and are way heavier.
@ Levi
Burn in??? Really??? You would have to wear a fucking helmet everywhere you go to think that burn in is still an issue. LCD's suck! You suck! And btw, when you say "best value", "for the money" is redundant. You still suck!
@EricBrady
Can we be best friends?
I know I'm 12 hours late to the party but...LOL
I am totally spoiled by my KURO Elite plasma - nothing else compares to it. If you have the bucks, it is by far the best picture of any HDTV. I hope they never stop making it!
The image for this post has me intrigued but I can't find the corresponding link in the article.
Is there an article where they placed LED-Backlit (supposed 1,000,000:1 constrast on the 9000 Samsungs) next to a Plasma to compare the black levels?
The 900-series Samsungs are outstanding. Their blacks look like ink. That being said, you pay about a $1,000 premium at a minimum over a comparable tier-1 plasma brand.
I think this what you are looking for: http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/07/pioneer-kuro-and-friends-hands-on/
That contrast is still dynamic contrast. That is why the blacks are so bad in the above screenshot. You can't get bright and dark in the same area even on the LED LCDs.
well, the other reasons why the blacks are not all that impressive in the picture are the limited abilities of the camera, and of the monitor you are viewing the pictures on... it is hard to represent a 1 000 000:1 ratio on a computer lcd that may only be able to produce 800:1 or maybe 2000:1. That is why i never really understood the point of comparison pictures for tvs, you watch them with your eyes, not through a computer and camera... A comparison only really helps to show physical design, and resolution (if the picture is taken in a sufficiently high resolution, and zoomed in enough to be relevant on our screen.
Although benhc911 does mention that you can't represent the true blackness of the panels through using an unknown camera and obviously displaying in on computer monitor that most likely doesn't come close to the contrast ratios these panels have....the picture DOES capture it all at once and the monitor DOES display all the panels together in one picture which will allow anyone to see the differences, EVEN IF THE COLORS AREN'T AS ACCURATE AS THE HUMAN EYE. The "DIFFERENCES" still show through when captured with a camera and displayed on one's computer monitor. It's not like the camera that took the picture is going to bias one TV over another and make the blackness level look blacker on 1 more than the other....(same with your monitor). Before buying one I would still have to see it in person.
benhc911
well, the other reasons why the blacks are not all that impressive in the picture are the limited abilities of the camera, and of the monitor you are viewing the pictures on... it is hard to represent a 1 000 000:1 ratio on a computer lcd that may only be able to produce 800:1 or maybe 2000:1. That is why i never really understood the point of comparison pictures for tvs, you watch them with your eyes, not through a computer and camera... A comparison only really helps to show physical design, and resolution (if the picture is taken in a sufficiently high resolution, and zoomed in enough to be relevant on our screen.
Ooops...didn't mean to include benhc911's reply in mine...
Take a look at the current issue of Home Theater Magazine. They compared the Kuro, Panny Plasma, Sony LED LCD and Samsung LED LCD. The Sony LCD actually had the deepest blacks, but the shadow detail wasn't as good as the Kuro. Overall they concluded that the Kuro was still superior, but it appears the LED backlit LCDs with local dimming are finally starting to level the playing field.
What about SED?!?!
Just kidding.
SED? OLED! Pity, there was neither in the comparison. It doesn't light up at all if the pixel is black, so it should win in blackness, though I'm not so sure about color accuracy.
I will take my 60" Pioneer Kuro over ANYTHING and at $3700 - it's 50% cheaper than the 55" LCD's.
I have a 42" 1080p Panny plasma and the picture is far superior to the Samsung "touch of red" LCD my friend has. Plasma looks like a photograph, LCD looks like a pixilated rendering of a photograph. Oh, and Kuro kicks both of their @$$es!
A lot of TV brands get pushed out the door with 'red push'. Samsung in particular is one of the most obvious offenders. Usually you can remove the red push, thankfully.
In my case, I opted for a Sony display, simply because they actually allow you to access the raw color balance settings without jumping through hoops, so I could correct any color imbalance at home (which was already pretty acceptable).
Not sure I could switch to a plasma display unless it also allowed me to do my own color correction.
Yea we all have a big screen we wanna show off to Engadget readers, but show us the comparison before you subjectively decide YOURS is the best. It will always be your opinion, so don't act like you are the messiah.
Personally I like my bravia. Not only does it have decent black-values, but also the bravia-engine is one of the better "cable-TV/poor signal upscalers". Considering you use your tv mostly to watch basic cable TV (Belgium *sigh*) or basic DVD's in stead of HD movies, at that stage you don't give a rat's ass about blacks when you compare any Tv with a Sony, just check the stores showing the same non-HD signal on both and decide for yourself.
Remember kids, good blacks and contrasts are important, but they don't make a TV good.
Plasmas still have better movement display than LCDs - even the 240Hz LCDs (Sadly CRT still is better for handling picture than plasma). However the 10G pioneer Kuros are supposed to help bridge that gap.
If Pioneer comes out with a 10K or less 75" or larger plasma I would be happy to replace my bulky RP CRT TV. People with 7K plasmas come to my place and ask why their brand new TV doesn't look as good as my old boxy TV. I'm hoping soon we'll all be able to have a LARGE TV with incredible movement picture quality, deep blacks and no screen door look. Chances are they'll have to go to quad resolution like the larger panasonic plasmas and the prototype Samsung LCD. I'm not sure why Sony hasn't demod a large TV yet - too bad the economy isn't booming otherwise I think they'd be planned for this summer.
I had the LED Samsung, was the best tv on the market....or so I thought, 3 weeks later I see The Kuro Elite Sitting in the middle with the LED Samsung and Sony sitting next to it. I quickly went to best buy, returned the Samsung. Happy to say I am the proud owner of a 60 inch Elite 151
This is silly. I find it VERY hard to believe that price isn't the main driving factor when the majority of the population is buying a TV. Most people don't care if their black is blacker - they just want to save a buck.
I basically agree, but that's also probably one reason why plasma sales are going back up.
I bought an LCD a couple years ago because it was the only way to get a 42" 1080p flat panel for $1,500 at the time. Nowadays, you can get a 42" 1080p Panasonic plasma set for $800! In fact, I will probably be replacing my LCD with one of these soon, because the banding on my LCD is getting worse and I can't deal with it anymore. So the LCD goes to the bedroom, where about the most critical watching we do is Late Night with Conan O'brien.
But my point is plasma prices have come WAY down. Two years ago, a 1080p plasma was literally about $20,000 and there were maybe two models on the market. (Even non-1080p plasma sets *started* at around $2,500, though.) Now they're under $1,000! That's a crazy price drop, and it puts plasma on a much more competitive footing with LCD. If the pricing between the two techs is relatively equal, then people will have no choice but to really look for picture quality differences.
If you can afford and care about color reproduction and contrast, no one can compete with KURO elite. Yet.
the end
I bought a panasonic viera 42" plasma a few years ago, It's only 720p because at that time there were no 1080p tv's.
My mate has a Samsung 1080p LCD which is awesome, Tad too green but just slightly.
The difference between both tv's is enormous, his is always crisp where as my plasma can be a bit fuzzy on pure black screens.
Probably has more to do with the resolution lol
I'd pick LCD over Plasma anyday though. There is nothing scarier than the first time you play ps3 for hours and switch over to tv to still see game HUD's burned into the corner.
My plasma has a pc input too, Why the hell would anyone use a plasma as a monitor. Shut your pc down and still see your desktop burned into your tv.
You sir are an enabler. You perpetuate the myth of plasma burn-in and those who don't know any better believe you.
Plasmas do NOT suffer from permanent burn-in anymore. They do, however, suffer from temporary image retention. After playing a game on a plasma for hours on end, you WILL see the HUD on your screen for up to half an hour or so. It is BARELY noticeable with something on the screen, and WILL go away in less than an hour with a moving image on the screen to help "wash" away the image retention.
In summary, image retention is NOT permanent on new generation panels (those bought in the past 4 years).
It's truly hilarious the plasma myths that people, even with the excellent Plasmas available today, still believe. Oh well, those people can buy an LCD, their loss.
I've had a Panny VIERA for almost 3 years now. I am a hardcore gamer who plays for hours on end and I've NEVER had permanent burn-in. It just doesn't happen anymore.
I didn't suffer through the whole movie, I left after the Megan Fox car scene.
Good choice, man (though the movie is kinda fun to watch, at LEAST get the Megan Fox scene before you split)
Well guys... wait for the OLED to come in..
It's like, how much more black could this be? and the answer is none. None more black
The word "videophile" in the second paragraph is more black...
yup.... too many ppl are used to too much brightness.
plasma all the way for home theater.... lcd for regular living room (more brightly lit room)
Why do these articles always leave out DLP?
Because these articles are about tv's you hang on your wall, not that a THX contractor aims at your wall...
Because, sadly, most of the CE companies have dropped out of that game. More people want thin, crappy TVs than slightly deeper, awesome PQ ones. I love my sony. Absolutely no regrets a little more than a year after purchase...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony doesn't and has never produced DLP TVs.
And I find it hilarious that you're grouping KURO Elite Plasmas into the "thin, crappy TV" category. You may want to read up on the last Home Theater magazine HDTV faceoff that included DLPs. While I despise DLP (mostly due to the viewing angle issues), I will admit that Mitsubishis look very good, but even they can't keep up with a good VIERA or KURO, especially these days.
Oh, and I was only talking about DLP RPTVs, not projectors. I would take a DLP projector any day, but mostly just for the size to have a true HUGETASTIC home theater experience. Plus those don't suffer from the viewing angle issues RPTVs suffer from. But in the end, If I want the absolute best picture, I'll go Plasma.
Loban @ Jan 16th 2009 4:55PM
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but Sony doesn't and has never produced DLP TVs."
No, you're right it's LCoS, but it's still a RPTV and a competitor to DLP.
"And I find it hilarious that you're grouping KURO Elite Plasmas into the "thin, crappy TV" category"
And I didn't group them into the "thin, crappy" category. You might want to read up on what I actually wrote. I said most people want those. If you compare the amount of good plasmas (KURO) to the amount of cheap LCD/plasma sold you might find that the scales are tipped towards the cheap ones...just a thought.
I'm sure if you compare my $1500 60" to the comparable-size KURO you'll find a better picture with the KURO, but what's the price difference? For my money (read: not $3,000+), I'd rather have a thicker tv with better PQ, than an LCD/plasma with a much worse picture.
My Sammy LN46A650 LCD displays black as pure black which is plenty good enough for me.