HD 101: Discrete IR codes
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Feb 5th 2009 2:00PM
posted Feb 5th 2009 2:00PM
So in comes an activity based remote like the Harmony to the rescue. Now you have one remote that will at the press of one button send all the correct IR codes needed to watch a movie. The problem comes when the remote and the device get out of sync. Lets say the TV was already on and the remote sent an IR power toggle command? Yep, now it's off, which is obviously not what you want when you're ready to watch a movie. This is where discrete IR commands come in. The remote knows the TV should be on, so it can send a command that it knows will always turn the TV on, even when the TV is already on, so the command will just be ignored. This way the remote and the devices can never be out of sync.
This is even more important when you start talking inputs because there is practically no way for the remote to know what input the TV is currently on. So hitting the input button X number of times to get from HDMI1 to component 3 is almost never going to work correctly. So what you really need is discrete -- or separate -- IR codes for each individual input, rather than one code that toggles through 'em all.
So where do you get these little guys? Luckily many programmable remotes included them, but depending on your project, you may need to contact the manufacturer. Probably the single greatest resource for finding this type of stuff is Remote Central. The discrete IR code database and forums over there are really second to none when it comes tracking down a discrete code. Unfortunately some devices only have toggle commands, and this can either make is a real pain to use with a programmable remote, or down right impossible. Anyone who's had to deal with this no doubt is now in the habit of searching for 'em before making a new purchase.
So what exactly are you trying to convince people of here? Discrete codes aren't news, and are not a new thing. Discrete codes have been around since forever ago and a day. Anyone who programs their own remotes pretty much already knows about discrete codes and macros to do a particular function. We also understand that some devices do not make use of discrete codes because the manufacturer didn't choose to use them.
A discrete code is nothing more than a regular code that the device reacts differently to. The device does the same thing every time when a "discrete" code is sent. OFF = OFF, ON = ON, EJECT = EJECT, etc., etc., etc.
HD 101: Discrete IR codes
Did you miss the "101" part of the article headline?
"A beginning-level or basic course number taught at colleges and universities in Australia, Canada, South Africa, and the United States. An example would be English 101, which may be a remedial English."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101_(number)
No one said it was news. This isn't CNN.com, it's a consumer interest blog. If you are already familiar with the info, then just move on.
I think that is why he titled it HD 101. For those people who have heard the term but have no idea what it is, or why they might need it. Heck, half the Vizio support staff could use this article. My question of whether or not their tvs support it had to be escalated to a level 2 technician because no one in support could understand what I was asking.
I thought it was an interesting comment myself. I've often assumed it's just impossible to do something like implement a button that turns my receiver, TV, and Dish Network DVR "off" at the same time, given such a button would have no way of knowing what devices are actually on at that point. Of course, from what Ben's saying, it's quite possible that it is impossible, that one or more of my devices might not have the discrete modes.
Wait, so the codes...okay, got that...and then ...yeah, okay, that makes sense. And then they...uh...wait. Nope, sorry lost.
Ahh, gotta love the pic of the Harmony One. Pretty much the best remote money can buy. Notice I didn't say it was the best value, that would be the Harmony 550.
There are better remotes than the Harmony One -- look up offerings from RTI, Universal Remote Control, and Philips Pronto -- they just cost more.
Seriously...the best remote? That comment just tells me you have no experience with pro level universal remotes. All of the above mentioned remotes(RTI, Universal, and Philips) are far superior in all respects but cost. You get what you pay for isn't a saying for nothing.
I went down the long road of programming the remote that came with my Onkyo. It gets the Job done, but that thing is intimidating to anyone not me. The wifey gets it though which is good. I will buy a harmony one when the batteries die in the onkyo and I loose all my settings.
the beast: http://z.about.com/d/hometheater/1/0/r/W/705remote-900.jpg
Does anyone know of a PC program (preferably open source) that will allow me to control my devices that use RS232 and LAN control? I want to put a PC in my living room and hook up the devices to it.
Its all about knowing that every thing is off, and discrete IR codes are the next best thing to actual feedback or by actually looking at evey component. My "ALL OFF" button in my Crestron system uses descrete IR, current sensors, video sensors and a module I worte that once set creates virtual descrete on and off signals to write macros with.
You should also check the JP1 forums and files at http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums and http://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload.php. Even if you have some other remote, the info here is transferable in many cases. Uses a downloadable Excel template called keymap-master to display codes.
Article should be titled: One of many reasons why you don't buy a Vizio TV...
And when I wrote an email, then spoke with, the management staff at Vizio about a year ago, they said they had no interest in discrete codes. They have no intention of spending a dime on better ways to control them. This keeps them out of high quality systems with integrated remote controls. But then, so does their picture.
By the way, it's discrete, not discreet. Discrete means single. Discreet means it won't tell your wife about that hooker you had on your arm last night at the hotel.
One thing the author might have wanted to mention is that those IR codes have to be LEASED in order to be used. That is why Vizio and some of the other more budget minded HT equipment does not use them. The manufacture is faced with the choice of adding a bunch of discreet codes at an increased cost to the device, or keep its code base small (and cheaper) but loose functionality that the majority of its customers wont use.
Dont get me wrong, I LOVE discreet codes, I just understand that there are always tradeoffs and reasons behind the decisions that companies like VIZIO make.
What I want is BT as the default means of remote control. Its 2 way, and its also UNLICENSED when it comes to control codes. Manufactures would be free to include ANY command they wanted to. Yes, the additional cost to add BT would be MUCH higher compared to IR, but economies of scale would quickly bring that down.
You are an idiot that has never programmed any type of universal remote control. A Bluetooth remote control is a pain to integrate into anything! Also, manufacturers don't have to LEASE a discrete IR command!
There is nothing wrong with Vizio. I personally think discrete IR codes can be really confusing to anyone, not a reason to blow off a great TV
Discrete IR commands are confusing to YOU, because you must not have read the article above.
There are plenty of reasons not to buy Vizio other than the lack of discrete IR commands, the video processing is also garbage.
I haven't had any problems with Vizio's help support line when I've called. Maybe you just had some back luck but they have always been very helpful when I call and need help with set up
So dumb question then concerning these discrete ir codes. Can a Harmony remote be set up to use them? Seems like it would save some headaches when you misfire with your remote. I don't really see an option to use them. Unless it's the 'power on'/ 'power off' extra functions I see in the command lists for the various devices.
Only if the manufacturer supports discrete IR commands. As mentioned above, Vizio is one of the few manufacturers that do not support discrete IR commands.
Actually, most TV's do not have discrete codes, especially off brands like Vizio, Westinghouse, Dynex, etc. Even lower end Toshibas and Sony's don't.
That's not really true. I have a handful of lower-end Sony sets in my home, and every one supports discrete codes. You just need to locate them.
Some of the latest Sony's do not.
Some TV's have discrete codes one year then none the next. If your in the market for a TV with discrete codes you should check out the forums at remotecentral.com before you buy. Custom Installers who participate in the forum will be able to point you in the right direction.
Interesting mix of responses reflecting the various degrees of experience with remote controls and automation.
I thought I would at my $0.02:
1. Some manufacturers share codes, so if you can not find discrete codes for a device, you may be able to do some research and find compatible devices. One example is Marantz and Yamaha most of their DVD players use interchangeable commands.
2. Sometimes you can use a trick to get around lack of discrete codes. Many DVD players for example may not have discrete power commands. But most of them reply to pressing PLAY by turning on even if they are in an off state. So instead of using Power command to turn the DVD player on, we use the PLAY command (followed by a STOP command if you want to stop the DVD from actually playing). And we can use a combo of PLAY + POWER (On then OFF) to form a faux discrete OFF command.
3. Some better (read more expensive) remote offer a pretty god way of getting around lack of discrete codes. They use "variables" or "flags". These keep track of what state a product is in by remembering if a certain command has been issues yet or not. So for example, if a TV does not have a discrete on/off command, the remote uses a variable to remember if a power command has been issued and will set the state of the TV as being ON. So when creating macros, you refer to this variable to see if a command should be issue or not based on the status of that variable. So for example if the power command has been issued inside a SYSTEM ON macro, if will then ignore any power commands for that TV if the TV state is ON. If you then want to create a macro that includes the TV being turned of, you would basically say if TV=ON, then issue Power command.
Of course this is by no means full proof. This assumes that at the starting point the system is in an OFF state. If the user turns devices on or off manually and then grabs the remote, the variables will be set out of phase and you have the same mess on your hands. We usually instruct clients to turn everything off and start over again if they get into a jam. It's not pretty, but it works.
And of course we do our best to not install devices w/o discrete codes...
Oh... and BTW, I came upon this page because i was searching for discrete codes for a stupid Vizio that the client already had. We have sold them a $400 remote and are having a heck of a time because of course it has no discrete codes...
OH, and as ernie said above it's "discrete" not "discreet." Actually may be that's what Vizio has! Discreet codes. They are keeping them a secret. No one knows about them... ;-)
Your client should have spent his remote money on a better TV.
What the Author has not mentioned is that actually Harmony One will not let you to program the Discrete code in HEX... You need to take a code from Logitech DB or have a working Remote from the device to teach Harmony the code. But when talking Discrete Codes which ARE NOT on your OEM Remote button (TV input ones like HDMI for example) You get stuck anyway. One should mention so how to take such Discrete Code in hex and program to the Harmony...