Pioneer officially leaving the TV biz by March 2010, focusing on audio
By Richard Lawler 
posted Feb 12th 2009 3:31AM
posted Feb 12th 2009 3:31AM
Bad news Kuro fans, the rumors were true and Pioneer is leaving the TV manufacturing business. On the upside, the restructuring deadline is March 2010, so a predicted net 130 billion yen ($1.44 billion) loss shouldn't be enough to get between you and the plasma HDTV of your dreams. The company's U.S. and U.K. plants are shutting down by April and February of this year, respectively, and product development for TVs beyond what's currently on the market is ending, seeing no prospects for improving profitability even after combining plasma efforts with Panasonic and LCDs with Sharp. Overall, there will be 10,000 fewer full time and temporary Pioneer employees than there were at the end of last year, while pay and bonuses for execs have been cut. The future for Pioneer? Mostly car audio, including in-car Blu-ray players and networked electronics, while its home electronics business focus on audio, DJ equipment and cable TV boxes, with a focus on using its expertise in improving sound. All other ugly details are contained in the press release, mourning the passing of another plasma supplier is in the comments.[Via Bloomberg and AV Watch, thanks Carl H.]
Truly sad, now i must save up enough money to be finally able to own a legendary kuro. Bought a pz80 (at employee prices) and was able to buy a pdp428xd, and there isnt a single day that i regret this. Can though be happy that i convinced a friend to buy a 428xd, truly amazing set even though its from 2007.
Kind of boggles the mind how Pioneer wasn't able to be more profitable being the clear reference standard for flat panel display quality. Hell, even their LCDs rocked from what I've read. Kuro is quite a moniker by itself in this product field as well, so I'd give kudos to Pioneer not just for engineering execution but also marketing. I guess they just couldn't sell enough of them, or compete with the bottom basement manufacturing efficiency of its Korean competitors. In the end, I guess its good to be cheap and "good enough", or at least have a budget product to get people through the front door. Still can't touch a base Kuro for less than $2k. I wonder why they stopped making 42" plasmas?
All the BS that has contributed to LCD winning the flat panel race has also not done Pioneer any favors. I give PDP 3 years. Panasonic is really the last true plasma maker to speak of. Retailers are far too slanted, and consumers too naive to ever come around to plasma, unfortunately.
Finally, fair warning to Vizio that they might want to not try to move up-market in this economy. Doesn't look like the other end of the spectrum is faring that well at all.
So now Panny will be the top dog...
Is it really all doom and gloom ? I would think Panny could acquire the rights to the "KURO" brand and with Pio's help, get their TV's to KURO quality, and better as time goes by.
Overall, Plasma needs a huge marketing push this year if they intend on surviving the next 3 yrs.
Well certainly it isn't a happy day that Pioneer is leaving the Video business. They set the industry standard and they will be missed.
I don't think it would be wise for Panny to pick up Kuro. Pio has already quit, which is already a small victory for Panny because they get to absorb that market share now. They don't need to spend money on top of it all just so they can have Kuro in their name, even though Panny hasn't done as good a job marketing their TVs. Their product is nearly just as good, and I'd say better because of the cost savings, which is where Pioneer did poorly...not having enough low and mid market products.
Panny needs to spend money fighting back against LCD. They can't do it through the retailers, since they're in love with LCD profit margins. Most smart shoppers already admit PDP has LCD beat in price by size comparisons. What Panny needs to do is squash the lingering doubts about plasma and get a decent marketing campaign for a change. Hell, I've never even seen a Panny commercial. Panny needs to shout on the mountaintop about its advantages as a panel technology: color accuracy, motion performance, and most definitely contrast ratio. Panny ought to be all over LCDs bull crap about "infinite" contrast ratio and 120Hz processing. They still don't match up, hands down. Panny needs to educate the consumer what NATIVE contrast ratio(!) is, and how football/basketball/hockey will never look as good on an LCD compared to PDP. HELLO LCD owners, how the hell can you overlook motion blur? No matter what brand, you just paid good money for a product that often looks worse than your SD tube ever did in motion sequences. Finally, Panny needs to put to rest concerns about burn-in and longevity. Props to their advancements of 60k+ hour displays and pixel stir technology, but most Joe six packs don't know plasma is a completely different product than even 3 years ago. Especially considering energy efficiency. You need to shake the stigma in order to get back into the game. Kind of like what Ford/GM need to do...
Vizio makes a mediocre product by most standards, but I'd say they've been very successful getting their name out there and with the appropriate market segment (LT/football/value inherent in the brand Vizio). I don't see why Panny couldn't be just as successful. Hell, start off attacking Vizio and go from there. You're not going to beat Sony and Samsung, but at least Samsung still makes PDPs so make sure they don't leave the market also. And finally, Panny needs to offer people great financing options. They need to authorize 3 year no interest financing on all their TVs, just like cars or appliance shops. I don't know anyone who's out there spending a whole lot of money right now, so you have to make it worth while to the consumer. That's why Vizio has a leg up, because in the consumer's mind, Vizio=value, something Panny might want to keep in mind also. Maybe create a budget brand of PDPs separate from the regular Panny brand if necessary.
Sorry for the novel...
Very sad indeed.
The reality is though, their plasmas are just too damn expensive. I'm a quality nut, but even I've baulked at their exorbitant prices. Are they really THAT much better than a Panasonic? I don't think so, and neither does the TV buying public.
It's exceptionally annoying that the average person believes that LCDs are the better technology. Why that is the prevailing consensus, baffles me. LCDs aren't a step forward from CRTs, they're a huge step backwards.
Personally, I have my fingers crossed for OLED.
You are correct sir. It's extremely sad that most people think LCD is better or that Samsung is actually a high end company. They're middle of the road at best. I won't necessarily be too upset when Pioneer bows out as I couldn't really afford a KURO anyway, but if Panasonic ever stops making VIERAs, I will cry. I refuse to buy LCD, so if/when plasma dies, I will have to wait until OLED becomes affordable. LCD is a joke, they're getting better, but only because the manufactures have to use gimmicks and tricks to make them look good, Plasma just looks good naturally. The way plasma creates the light is just better, LCD panels are like windows to the light you really wanna see, plasma creates the light and pumps it directly into your eyeballs. ;)
I also don't necessarily agree with you that KUROs are too expensive. You can get a 50" 1080p KURO on Amazon for less than $2000 right now. That's what I paid for my 720p VIERA 3 years ago. That's a pretty amazing price for a TV that kicks the crap out of every other TV out there.
I just realized I sort of I contradicted myself. I said I couldn't afford a KURO, then I said they weren't expensive. What I meant to say is that while I CAN afford a KURO, VIERAs are still much cheaper and give just about the same picture quality, so I would still choose a VIERA over a KURO for the time being.
The sad fact is: if you buy a KURO you buy one for 8 to 10 years, this makes them almost as cheap as a Panny or any other cheap piece of junk simply because you enjoy it so much more.
I can watch my PDP 5000EX 24/7 it is so good and so relaxing to watch, would never happen with any crappy vizio, they drive me crazy in 15 minutes. Which makes them real cheap to own I guess lol
The electric bill over those 10 years is the really expensive part... lol
Hey, Ferrari is going to stop making cars!.. Who cares - Most of use can't afford this luxary line of cars and the Kuro's are luxuary TV's.
They would not really be missed by normal people.
yep, poor people rule!!!
KUROs aren't exactly Ferrari's. They're slightly more expensive, but not THAT much more. Like I said earlier, you can get a 1080p 50" KURO from Amazon for $2000. That's pretty amazing.
kuros are more like a lexus. A runco plasma would be a ferrari.
Bought my 1130 back in '06, when plasma prices were higher (and Pioneers much more so), and I still feel it was worth every penny...especially since it still outperforms all the new 1080p LCDs that my friends have. So I was really looking forward to splurging on the next generation Kuro, and the new brightness tech that was supposed to be included to take away that final gripe from the LCD camp.
I guess the silver lining in this is that Panasonic is still in the game, and their bang for buck ratio is excellent. So my wallet rejoices today, but my inner videophile mourns.
RIP Kuro.
Indeed this is sad. It sounds like they are backing away from ALL home A/V equipment, not just TVs. :(
KURO plasmas do not resemble ferrari's what so ever! i would say that Pioneer plasmas remind me of Aston Martin. AM its not about the most speed or the best curves. Its about the quality, functionality and overall presence that you get for your pretty penny. That, in a nutshell is KURO.
ferraris are overpriced buckets of carbon fiber that make good phlegm recepticals.
Well thank god I got the best screen Pioneer ever made: the PDP5000 EX
With a $16000 pricetag when it was introduced it must have scared away so many people I could pick one up for 3900.- a year later. So it was build and designed a while ago but nothing comes close to this. Actually had the latest Kuro high end model next to it, same BluRay disc player connected only to find out the new models where a joke compared to this absolute beauty. So yes Pioneer has good reason to be more expensive and if you ever come across one of these: BUY it, no tuner, no audio, no support its just a screen but man.. what a screen.
Donkey, three words: Pioneer PDP5000 EX
and yeah i played Hellboy (planet earth, wild china and a few others ) on both screens and the 5000EX made the Kuro look like it was playing a VHS copy...
this is very sad indeed.
why does poor management have to be a disease that destroys every good thing?
wow, very unexpected. ive gotta stand up and say i never saw a need for pioneers though. the last 3 generations of panasonic panels have been outstanding; either matching or surpassing pioneer's last few Elites. oh yeah, and they had enough sense to make most of their product line actually palpable. I mean- look at what happened to Tivo. they shot themselves in the foot and tried to make the DVR out to be a luxury item, and it became too expensive. case in point.
I think what Pioneer unknowingly did with their pricing was set a sort of upper-limit anchor or ceiling, making mid-range choices from other brands more attractive. (And yes, Pioneer does compete with these brands, for those who feel Pioneer should not be compared to Panasonic or Samsung.) For example, the 50'' 111fd started out initially at $5,000 MSRP. If you walked into Best Buy/Magnolia and saw one next to a $2,000-$2,500 Panasonic, you might well have concluded, "hey, this Panasonic looks pretty close in picture quality. If it compares so favorably with a $5,000 set, that says a lot about how good this Panasonic really is, especially for the money." People often gravitate toward the middle choice, so even though $2,500 is still a lot of money for a TV, it seems like a bargain when you compare it to one that's $5,000 to $4,500. Pioneer should've realized that $2,500 was becoming the sweet spot for big screen TVs and priced their products accordingly. They did eventually adjust, as evidenced by the price drops on the non-Elite Kuros, but too late in my opinion.
Anyway, it's sad that videophiles and enthusiasts, who of course want want the best performance, will no longer have this premier brand in the display business. But honestly, it's obviously much sadder because of what this annoucement says about our economy and the job market. I don't think too many people right now are worried about having the best blacks on their TVs. I have a Pioneer 1140 and it's the best TV I've ever owned, so I understand where the enthusiasts are coming from, but there will be acceptable and more affordable alternatives in the short-term, and, eventually, equivalent or better displays than the Kuros in a few years. At the very least, however, the folks who worked on the Kuros should always feel proud of the class-leading displays they developed.
Panny isn't absorbing market share from Pioneer, they'll fight for scraps mainly with Samsung.
Hopefully, Panasonic will do the following things to succeed Pioneer:
- use Pioneer's superb picture/video processing
- use Pioneer's superb AR screen coatings (and dump the extra sheet of glass)
- fight back LCD with the 2x brightness (aka 2x efficiency)
- use tasteful product design like Pioneer, and avoid goofy/blingy gimmicks
First they quit making plasmas smaller than 42" and then soon enough they stopped making 42" plasmas (which was the one Kuro I was going to buy and can only afford). It's not even a year and now they are out of the TV business. It is a sad day for plasma. It's not the end yet, rumor has it that Panasonic might buy their plasma technology and could reincarnate the Kuro. One good thing about it is that those 50"-60" Kuros will get way cheaper as 2010 nears perhaps less than a grand.
I am really disappointed to hear this. I love Pionner Plasma TVs