The real reason why the Media Center TV pack update was OEM only?
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Feb 13th 2009 2:49PM
posted Feb 13th 2009 2:49PM
This shortened beta process means that OEMs will have less time to prepare for Windows 7, which isn't a big deal when you consider that most of the Vista drivers will continue to work. But the same cannot be said for Media Center, which under went major changes when it comes to TV.
We started to play around with all the new Media Center features in Windows 7 and quickly realized all the actual improvements were also a part of the TV Pack. This got us thinking, why would Microsoft release a super buggy update to Vista with all the great functionality improvements of Windows 7? The answer should be obvious at this point; to give the OEM's extra time to prepare for the drastic changes. As this occurred to us, something that we heard while we were in Redmond suddenly made much more sense. We asked Charlie Owen why the TV Pack was so buggy and the response was "because it wasn't meant for you." Now what he actually meant was that it was designed for International markets and the US features were there just because it made sense in the overall development lifecycle of Windows Media Center. But in the community we took it that the DIY type wasn't equipped to setup and support the update. But now that we think of it, it seems to make us think that the real reason why the TV Pack update was OEM only in the US was to compensate for the shortened beta cycle of Windows 7. So you see, Microsoft wasn't trying to give any advantage to the OEMs by giving 'em early access to an update, instead it was just meant to give them an extra six months to prepare for the major changes to the way TV works in Windows 7.
We don't know about anyone else, but this somehow this makes us feel better.
As a Media Center Hobbyist myself (I went for SAGETV) this subject intrigued me. I read through this post and have absolutely no idea what it was about.
Something about Europe and Vista and TV Pack something something?
Basically...
TV Pack was delivered to OEMs only to give them a head start on the various changes that were/are coming down the road with Windows 7 (due to shorten Windows 7 beta cycle).
The DIYers got pissed off and didn't understand why it was OEM only. In retrospect, it all makes sense now.
Who cares, wake me when media center supports satellite or true2way cable.
Yes, for the love of God give me Directv HD support!
Everyone I know just bittorrented the update and applied it with very little problems. We all just figured they released it to OEMs only so that they didn't have to actually support it or deal with consumer issues (my tuner card doesn't work, things are different, blah blah blah). So in my view the TV Pack was only for the DIY crowd.
Isn't that just a long way of saying that the reason TV Pack wasn't released to end used was because it was buggy? Presumably that is the reason that OEM's have not released any systems using it.
If none of the US the features were not going to be used until Windows 7, why not just release it as a Window 7 technology preview?
Although, upon reflection, perhaps that is just semantics
Your assertion that OEMs are not installing TV Pack is incorrect. I just purchased a new HP computer with a TV tuner card, and it came with TV Pack installed. They even included a printed insert to explain it. Of course, this insert does highlight the expectation problem with TV Pack; it specifically states that no support for DirectTV is included.
I ordered a new system with cable cards from TrendMicro and it came loaded with TV pack.
What a pointless post. TV Pack has been shipping with HP computers since September. Also, Win7 MC is significantly different from VMC with TV Pack. TV Pack really only adds QAM support while Win7 adds a ton of new features (on-the-fly configuration of hybrid tuners, h.264 support, mkv support on extenders, complete UI redesign, etc.). Epic fail, Ben.
Actually..............
The beta for the TV Pack included h.264 decoding, as well as many of the features you see in 7MC that weren't in the final TV Pack.
And since when did 7 support MKVs? I never noticed that........heh
ATM94,
You have NO idea what you are talking about, but lets break it down point by point.
on-the-fly configuration of hybrid tuners -- If you're talking about merging channels from different tuners into one channel, then this was included in the TV pack.
h.264 support -- pulled from the TV Pack at the last minute.
mkv support on extenders -- not even Windows 7 has this, at least not out of the box.
complete UI redesign -- most of the TV related redesigns were in the TV pack, ie look of the guide.
Now I might have messed up about OEMs not including the TV Pack -- which is why I qualified it with "to our knowledge" -- but as far as the way TV works, the TV Pack is closer to 7 then it is to Vista sp1.
Yea, I retired from the media center world years ago and hopped on SageTV as well. haven't looked back. Just built a new system with 2 of the Hauppauge HD-PVRs (with STBs and the USB UIRT for you folks looking for a Direct TV option) and an internal HVR-2250 for qam tunable channels and the thing is rock solid and works like a charm. Keep your OEM cable card support MS, I've found a better ride.
The bigger statement Microsoft made is that they really didn't improve Media Center at all on the Vista platform. Three year window and nothing significant?
Actually HP is shipping their Media Centers with TV Pack!
Poor Ben, getting fire from all sides over a post that IMHO cleared up the confusion of why the TV pack exsists. I thought it was a good post, keep up the good work!
C
I think Ben succeeded in making the mud a tad clearer -- but it's still mud. ;)
The TV Pack target audience was ISDB users in Japan and some TV standards work in Europe, via the OEM channel. In some cases the work to enable these was very complementary to certain TV features in other locales, most notably English-United States, so rather than come back and reopen the code base later we worked smartly to go ahead and do some foundational work in preparation for delivering those features in a later product (which you now know as Windows 7). Note my use of the word 'foundational' -- features not necessary for the target audience (see above) were not necessarily run through the full testing and stress normally done. The really short reason is there are finite resources and you focus those resources on the intended audience first and look for ways to save time for a later shipping product second.
Many months ago when the TV Pack was made available (in either beta or RTM form -- it's so far back I don't remember the specific time frame) Ben told me he was going to install. I recommended AGAINST doing so because I didn't think it would be a great experience because he wasn't in the target audience (he lives in neither Japan or Europe). He applied the TV pack anyway, ignoring my advice. Fast forward to a couple of months ago where I found myself sitting down with Ben for dinner. [Predictably] Ben started to rant on how many problems he had since installing the TV Pack. My response: 'Why are you surprised -- I told you this would probably happen because it wasn't meant for you'. It sounds harsher than it was in reality (hopefully Ben will agree). Then we had a great discussion on feature development, resources, guiding principles, why we can ship feature X this release but not feature Y, and so on.
So that's the history behind the quote Ben used from me today.
If you want to know more about the rationale for the TV Pack I'd encourage you to take a moment and read this in depth post by Ed Bott: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=547&page=1.
Could we have done a better job at helping folks understand all of this? Absolutely. Hopefully you've seen our communication about Windows 7 (what's in vs. not) handled a bit more elegantly (although I'd agree still not where we'd really like to be WRT enthusiast community). If you've got specific feedback you'd like to share get my contact information from http://blog.retrosight.com/Contact.aspx and give me a call or send me an email.
The Windows Media Center team earnestly wants to please our customers -- and in perhaps all scenarios we want the same features in our own homes as you do. I'd even wager we have more 'raving fan-a-lunatics' than the community on the team -- you'd probably be surprised how many of us 'dogfood' the product in our homes with our families every single weekend to make it that much better for you folks. In most cases delivering a quality product takes time and careful planning. In the case of the promise you see in the TV Pack for the United States market: You'll see the fruits of the labor with Windows 7.
Thanks so much for clearing that up Charlie. And no I didn't take your comment as too harsh, in fact I appreciated your honesty and the fact that you didn't try to sugar coat it. If there is one thing just about every company does too much, it is to put a spin on everything that makes everyone wonder what is actually true.
As a product manager for a major MSP and a VMC/CableCARD owner, I know where you're coming from and this is good honest feedback. Thanks.
As someone who has been with Media Center for over 5 years...
You dropped the ball on DirecTV and I'm sorely disappointed.
I live in the US and I'm using the TV Pack (torrent derived) on my main MC machine and loving every minute of it. It's the only way I can get HD channels (i.e. Clear QAM channels) from my local cable provider without having to pay for a higher level of service with a silly set-top-box (which I absolutely don't want!). I'm not having any problems at all with the TV Pack. I'm using it with a pair of AverMedia AverTV M780 combo cards and the picture quality of HD shows is stunning to say the least.
I tried jumping over to using the public Windows 7 beta, but all of our recorded TV shows stutter and appear all pixilated whenever I try playing them with extenders run over my wired gigabit network. Thus, I had to go back to using Vista Ultimate with the TV Pack instead. I'm really hoping that our Windows 7 problems will be fixed in the release candidate as I really like the new UI.
I have the same problem with extender performance under Windows 7. There are some posts on tgb about it...seem to be a DRM issue (like everything else)
OEM's are shipping the TV Pack, S1Digital is one of them. I purchased one, actually the first one with the tv pack according to Paul, and it's been awesome! 4 ATI DCT's and 4 QAM tuners, only issue I've had so far was a dead hard drive in a stripe set that homeserver restored beautifully for me.
The author is dead wrong. I work for a semiconductor company that makes ICs for TV tuner cards and I am personally responsible for supporting the "OEMs" stated in this article. I can tell you from first hand knowledge that the TV Pack has been shipped with new PCs for quite some time now. It's true that current users will not be able to download (through proper channel, that is) the TV Pack update. I assume Microsoft has some business reasons for not providing this release. The TV Pack update is wonderful. A lot of improvements including ClearQAM and a better program guide. I use it everyday in my living room and I am extremely happy with it. One easy way to tell if you have TV Pack is to look at the ATSC channel numbers. Pre-TV Pack, Microsoft used a 1xxx numbering format and since changed to xx.x. If your ATSC channel number shows up as 15.1 instead of 1151, then you have the TV Pack update.
I may be wrong about OEMs shipping the TV Pack, but I'm not wrong about it being useless. You don't have to take my 60 crashes in 60 days for it, though you can search online and find nothing but bugs. In fact I agree the new features are great, but what use are they when the thing crashes all the time?
I think that this may accurately describe the result of the TV pack fiasco, but I'm unconvinced this was "by design".
I have a feeling these are the types of posts the media center team read behind their NDA's and then chuckle a bit, wishing they could tell the full story.
Or not...just read Charlie's comment. I guess I should have read the other comments first. (Bad Clif! Bad!)
any chance i'll get somewhere if i do 10 per day...
here's hoping i can get you to change the title of your article to:
"The real reason the Media Center TV pack update was OEM only?"
and never follow the word "reason" (or "reasons") immediately with the word "why" except in instances when you are wanting to distinguish from reasons who or reasons what or reasons where or reasons when or reasons how.
thank you....