Last week it was
uncovered that the way 3rd party codecs will work in Windows 7 is going to be different. Microsoft wasn't exactly happy with our interpretation of the events and so we received a nice email today clarifying a few points; like the fact that Windows will "continue to use codecs and other format technologies from third-party companies." This is great and all, but doesn't exactly jive with what the developers of some third party companies are saying. The real point of contention seems to be that in Windows 7, if the video you want to watch is naively supported by Windows, there's no easy way choose a different codec, like the popular ffdshow. Now obviously you'll be able to add support for a codec not already supported by Windows, but that isn't going to be enough for some. That's not to say there isn't a way to override this out of the box behavior, but it isn't like it used to be. But honestly, a part of us understands what Microsoft is trying to do here. Anyone who has ever messed up their direct show filter priority with some hack codec pack knows the pain of re-installing Windows just to get a video to play again. So in a strange way this might actually be a decent compromise. Now if it was down right impossible to override the default codecs, it'd be a different story. But based on the current beta builds floating around the net, that doesn't seem to be the case. The full official response from Microsoft is after the break. Microsoft does not restrict the use of third-party codecs. In fact, as we move toward the release of Windows 7, we have worked to add more codecs and file types to Windows 7 to allow for a better user experience and continue to use codecs and other format technologies from third-party companies, just as we always have. Additionally, third party applications can use Microsoft codecs or their own.
posted Apr 1st 2009 7:53PM
That is, like, saying a lot of things without saying anything.
Any word on official mkv support in WIN7?
The problem with supporting MKV is that it is a container that is used almost exclusively (as in 99%) for illegit media releases. It isn't that groups releasing this stuff 'like' the mkv container, its that it is in the rules that they have to use the mkv container.
MSFT supporting the MKV container is basically admitting that their system can, out of the box, play improperly-acquired content.
And anyone who says there is legit mkv content needs to tell the people who make this 'legit' content they need to pick a container that doesn't have the bad vibes that the mkv container has. Just because everybody else uses it on thepiratebay doesn't mean your content should follow suit.
What I don't understand is that if .mkvs are just a container, it really doesn't MATTER whether Windows can play them or not since the underlying data should be easily playable, especially since there's a built-in H.264 decoder in the OS now.
So then why does Win7 support xvid/divx. Which just like MKV is 95% used for illegal material.
I thought it was 94%. I could be wrong though.
I think that that is a little bit unfair. It may be that 94% of dvix or mkv file transfers are illegal, but an enormous percentage of all video and audio file transfers are illegal.
There are plenty of people with HTPC's who record video legally and compress to these formats to save hard drive space, and doing it in a legal manner, but no one ever counts those.
i's confused i have win7 beta running win7 codec pack off of fileforum.com and it's playing mkv in media player and it show's ffdshow running as the codec
It depends on the build you are running. Some of the builds work with fhshow, some do not.
The problem is thus:
As it stands in Win 7 Build 7000, and 7057, there is absolutely no way to use any decoder with Windows Media Player 12, or Windows Media Center, for which a decoder was included by Microsoft in the Media Foundation package. The reason is that under the new Media Foundation scheme, it is left up to the Application to allow the user to override the 'preferred' Media Foundation decoders. Any decoder included in Microsoft's Media Foundation package is 'preferred'. Since WMP12 and WMC don't expose any way for the user to override the preferred decoder, there is no way to use 3rd party decoders in WMP and WMC for which Microsoft has included a decoder.
This sucks. No more hardware decoding of h264 files in WMP and WMC. My guess is that blueray will still be okay because the 3rd party application that plays the blueray will override the preferred decoder (or simply use directshow and bypass the whole Media FOundation thing for now.)
@Alex, My HTPC computer uses less than 10% cpu time when watching H264 1080P content so it does support hardware decoding out of the box.
If (after Windows 7 is released) many people are in need of 3rd party decoders it would be really easy to accomplish, all that is needed is a new id in the compression format, it a video tells WMP/MCE that it´s in h265 format (the actual content may just be h264, most likely its enough to patch the header of any existing video) windows will not be able to use it´s internal decoders and 3rd party decoders are once again available.
Sorry for the double-post, but if someone with clout could get this question answered that would be all I need to know on the subject:
"Is there any way for me to use a 3rd party h264 decoder (Cyberlink's h264 Decoder for example) to playback an mp4 file in Windows Media Center in Windows 7?"
If the answer is yes than the how needs answering. If the answer is no, then Windows 7 is ruined for me. I need that hardware h264 decoding.
The included Windows codec handles hardware decoding so your point is entirely moot. If I playback 1080p ripped blu ray content in Media Player or Media Centre my cpu is hardly used at all.
Is Microsoft actually suggesting we pirate "Battlestar Galactica.mkv"?
Microsoft didn't supply that image, I made it on my machine. In case you care, it is possible to convert a dvr-ms recording from a Windows Media Center to mkv.
This has always been an issue with Windows. I think of how many people who had Divx, 3ivx, xvid and every other possible thing installed, and there is no real easy way to pick which decoder to use.
Sounds like Microsoft is asking for another antitrust case against them.
Letting us know that third party applications can still use codecs is kind of a push really. What about those of us running WMP 12 or Media Center who would rather use ffdshow than the subpar ms codecs? It's bad enough they made it difficult before but making it completely impossible is moving in the wrong direction. Why not add a simpler way to restore native codec defaults than block any alteration what-so-ever?
I don't care what Codecs I use, Windows 7 rocks and I can't wait to buy it!
You're explanation sounds all fine and good, but what about those of us requiring hardware acceleration?
Nvidia and ATI have their own proprietary codecs for acceleration on their video card hardware.
Is Microsoft really going to kill that off?
Microsoft's codecs also support hardware acceleration. And like I said, it is still possible to over ride the codecs, it just isn't trivial or probably supported by MS.
Read up on DXVA. nVidia and ATI both support it, which is why MPC Home Cinema can hardware accelerate mp4. It acts as a common interface/abstraction layer for hardware acceleration to the video card. Which is how it should have been done all along(though it seems DXVA has been around for a while). There was a transition period(seems like there always is) where there were proprietary implementations, but that has been rapidly moved away from, probably at least in part, due to the requirements for supporting HD formats(i.e. Blu-Ray now, HD-DVD when it was around).
In that graphic, the rendered is Video Renderer. I thought EVR was the new kid on the block?
"What I don't understand is that if .mkvs are just a container, it really doesn't MATTER whether Windows can play them or not since the underlying data should be easily playable, especially since there's a built-in H.264 decoder in the OS now."
That implies an assumption that all codecs for decoding video in format X are equal. They are not. mp4 is a perfect example. Early FFDShow implementations were accurate but not fast, so mp4 was not playable on older hardware. This created an opening the Core Codec stepped into.