Ask Engadget HD: What's the best upscaling receiver?
By Richard Lawler 
posted Apr 15th 2009 12:01PM
posted Apr 15th 2009 12:01PM
"What's the cheapest A/V receiver with 3+ HDMI inputs that does upconversion/upscaling to 1080? I'm looking at the H/K AVR-254, Yamaha RX-V565 and the Onkyo TX-SR606 so far. The Yamaha is a newer model and I was also wondering if there is anything on the horizon that might mean a cheaper/better value for the above mentioned features."
Luckily, Justin came to the right place. We're sure you have just the box in mind that fits these specs - go.
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I prefer Denon or Onkyo. I have a Denon 4308 & an Onkyo 806. Both upscale particularly well. Actually, both do about the same - I can't tell a difference. Of course, YMMV because it all depends on your display.
Onyko 606 .. or if your big time 906
I would tell you to go with the RX-V565 because Yammy is my favorite brand of AVR's hands down! I own the RX-V3900 and the upscaling is AWESOME! I also like the way the new front panels of the RX-Vx65 series receivers look.
I would second this, as I have the RX-V3800. I don't use any upscaling functionality because I don't need it (and have an external scaler), but the sound quality is absolutely excellent. I had a RX-V795 previously, which was basically the same price-point as the 565, and it also sounded great. I wouldn't have replaced it except for the RX-V3800 being compatible with Blu-ray's high end audio, and the $900.00 closeout price after the 3900 came out.
The 3900 is more akin to the 565 than the 3800 because they're both the newest generation. More robust upscaling was one of the focuses of this generation (along with TrueHD/DTS-MA across the board). Given Kyle's above kudos for the 3900, I'd do a little research to see what the differences are in the upscaling technology, given that the 565 is about half the price. There may actually be no difference in upscaling, but it's something you should look into if that's one of your short-list features.
In terms of the above Denon recommendation, they're a well-liked brand. However, I installed one for my father-in-law and it's been tons of trouble. An embarrassment actually. I chose it -- another closeout buy, and like I said, lots of people like them -- but it's been so problematic my father-in-law thinks I didn't know what I was doing.
-Pie
Integra 5.9. Integra is the "Professional Installer" line from Onkyo. They use slightly better components and are slightly more expensive but worth it in my opinion. You can't buy them from just anywhere though. Only from A/V specialty shops. Anyway, check it out. I think it's worth the extra leg work.
1080i or 1080p?
I've heard the Onkyo upscaling isn't very good, but a lot of the receivers use the same chips.
I've been looking for a new reciever also and am debating between the marantz sr-5003 and the Onkyo 607 which should be out soon. You'll pay more for the marantz but I would put it in a higher class of consumer electronics.
For what it's worth cnet said the upscaling performance on the Onkyo 606 was poor.
Good luck, I'll be watching this forum closely!
I've been extremely happy with the Marantz SR-7002 I bought about a year ago. Have been a fan of Marantz for a few years now.
Best value in an upscaling receiver: Onkyo 876/876 because it has the HQV Reon video processor and is under a grand (should be able to pickup the 875 even cheaper as it is last year's model) - very robust amp section also, especially with all 7 channels being driven
Best upscaling receiver without regard to price: Yamaha Z7 or Z11 with the Anchor Bay VRS video processor.
Best upscaling receiver around 500 dollars: Onkyo 706 as it has the newer DCDi Cinema video processor that can upscale to 1080p - any other receiver with this same video chip would also be a good
Don't get the 875. It has color space conversion issues which Onkyo claims is a feature. All of the bugs of the 805/875/905 generation have been corrected in the 806/876/906.
If you want an Onkyo with the Reon-VX, go for the 876 or 906.
I have seen that issue mentioned regarding the 875, but seems like something that can be addressed with a display calibration. The 876 would be a better package - in additional to having that issue resolved, you would also get dynamic EQ and thx loudness plus, which are great features for listening at lower volumes.
Personally I'd like the option to be able to turn any video processing done by the receiver off or on in order to judge the difference on-screen. The most useful feature might be the ability to transcode any analog video to HDMI, but even if receivers have very good circuitry (Reon VX), I want to see which is actually better at processing the video, the receiver or the HDTV. You may not be able to judge simply from a list of equipment or features.
I recently picked up the Harman/Kardon AVR-254. Huge fan of the receiver. Upscaling is fantastic (1080P), on screen display is the best I've seen in a receiver. Beware of buggy firmware out of the box. H/K has an update available on their website that fixes most issues with it. $393 from Amazon, can't go wrong!
Ditto. I just got this myself and it seems fine. I've found some DirecTV shows have weird banding that I don't recall seeing with the HDMI feed going straight to my Samsung 4671. However, the remaining 95% of stuff I've run through it (including Blu-rays from my PS3) have been great.
You should consider the Denon AVR-888. It only has 2 HDMI inputs, but it is a great value. It does upconversion and of course decodes the HDMI audio signal so you only have to run one cable. eCost currently sells the AVR-888 "recertified" model for $368 shipped. It is by far the cheapest receiver I have seen that does upconversion of all inputs AND decodes HDMI audio.
I agree with Brett on the Denon AVR-888. I bought late last year and it is a very good receiver. The only downside is the 2 HDMI inputs but you can just pick up a switch at Monoprice for less that $50.
Onkyo 606. I have installed and personally own this one. Love it. While at CES we viewed the new 607 which is coming out this fall and is going 1080p and dropping to $499 retail instead of a $599 retail of the 606. Obviously we can all get these cheaper but yeah dropping a hundred dollars MSRP is a good thing, I cant remember if its the HQV chip or not might still be the DCDI chip.
Integra 5.9. Worth the extra money.
I've never owned a Receiver before. I've got a Samsung LN52650 HDTV and a Samsung BD-P2550. The P2550 upscales the video on SD DVD's as well as decoded the HD audio on Blu-ray discs. My questions are these:
If my DVD player does upscaling and HD audo decoding, do I need my AV Reciever to do so as well?
Which of these receivers do you recommend only require a single HDMI connection for both audio AND video? This is a feature I'd really like to have to simplify cabling rather than also plug in audio cables as well.
What key words should look for in looking at Receiver specs for this ability? I've learnd that simply having HDMI inputs doesn't mean it can carry both audio and video.
Thanks
If my DVD player does upscaling and HD audo decoding, do I need my AV Reciever to do so as well?
If you are using an HDMI cable to send both picture & sound (as required by the newest audio formats supported by Blu-Ray players), then if you want your audio receiver to receive and reproduce those newer audio formats then yes, the receiver has to offer the audio decoding for the newer formats. The good news is that most new receivers do. Dolby TrueHD, DTS Master Audio...
You don't necessarily need your receiver to 'upscale', which is a term used to discuss a variety of video processing but which generally means that a device is taking a lower resolution signal and processing it to a higher resolution output. Some devices do it well, some do it badly. It all depends. That's why other people here have mentioned separate (outboard) scalers. Companies like DVDO or Gefen make them. Will they improve your image? Often they will. For some people they will be worth it.
I've seen some "upconverting" DVD players where the images didn't seem that different or better on the TV screen when switched to different output resolutions (480i / 480p / 720p / 1080i). On the other hand, others did much better. I've also seen older but really high end 480p DVD players' images look better than newer, cheap "upconverting" players.
When people use terms like "upconvert" and "transcode" with regard to audio receivers, most of the time, though, they're talking about the receiver's ability to take an analog input (component video, s-video, composite video) and output it through a single HDMI cable.
HDTV's also have their own built-in 'upscaling', meaning that a 1080p TV will process a lower resolution to be shown on a 1080p screen.
This is kind of a dumb question with "upscaling/upconversion" in the need list. These are 2 very different things with a huge impact on what is actually done.
Plus there is no price. If you want great upscaling, then you need a scaler, such as the DVDO. If you just want 1 cable from your AVR to TV, the denon 888 will do that. I dont think you have defined your needs and limits very well. I personally use a pre/pro for video switching to a video scaler for the upscaling. This will get you the best results.
These are not my only requirements but a couple that I like to have on my list to narrow down my options. I've just noticed many mfgs and/or stores arn't very clear on the whole HDMI single cable vs HDMI plus Audio cable feature. Having starting with circa 2008 TV/DVD player units, I'm looking to future-proof my AV Reciever without breaking the bank.
Not sure why one needs upscaling. The sources one uses should be the device that accomplishes that task if one needs it - why should a receiver get involved. Or as Nick say get a dedicated scaler. But with the amount of blu-ray discs out there and with Directv offering 1080p output - there is less and less need for this process.
There is still a need for upscaling. You act like no one owns any DVD players that only puts out 480P... or no one uses their VHS or D-VHS players. Shrinking market, yes, but there is still demand for a receiver to do the upscaling, when the device itself doesn't do it, or does a piss poor job of it.
The Onkyo 606 upscales up to 1080i for those that are curious. Upscale quality is "meh" at best, so if that's truly important, another model may be in order. Otherwise, with 4 HDMI inputs and all the extras it packs, it's a great receiver for the $$.
I totally agree with you! I mean c'mon people there's bluray, vudu dwnlds and 1080i Directv service that needs no upscaling/ downscaling, etc. whatever! Some person actually said upscaling VHS!!! What?!
One question that needs to be clarified: do you mean upscaling of just analog video signals, or high def (720p/1080i) via HDMI up to 1080p also. Very few inexpensive receivers will scale an incoming high-def signal via HDMI from 720p/1080i to 1080p. BTW, I agree that Yamahas and Onkyos both have nice upconversion. My Yamaha RX-Z7 does phenomenonal upscaling with the Anchor Bay Technologies ABT2010 chipset. It is very much the equal of the Silicon Optix Realta, another amazing scaler.
I'm enjoying the harman kardon avr254. It takes all my various inputs and switches them out to the HDMI out port. It upscales using a Faroudja DCDi Cinema processor. It's been great. Here's my review of it on tomorrowland...
http://www.tomorrowland.com/2009/02/11/review-im-enjoying-the-harmankardon-avr254/
I have a TX-NR906. Its great, but SD TV still blows. Just DVD's and the Wii noticeably better. I would seriously bypass "better" upscaling for a Pioneer with ICE amps and "ok" upscaling if i could do it again.
Avr, not aVr.
For audio quality, HK is hard to beat. I have tried Denon, Onkyo and Yamaha and I have a warm and fuzzy feeling when I listen to my HK. The latest receivers have good upscaling also. Try the AVR 254. I recommend trying everything in your own home. Return the ones you don't want.
One feature to think about that is not present on a lot of the cheaper models: An auxiliary HDMI input on the front of the receiver. You may not think you need one now, but it is an excellent feature to hook up a temporary PC or digital camera that has some HD footage.
-CF
Onkyo 876 or 906 both have outstanding upscaling, and much lower prices than comparable Dennon or HK units.
I have an Onkyo 605 and it's great, but I would LOVE the 906, big bucks but read some reviews on the 906, a lot of people saying it is second to none.
http://www.techradar.com/reviews/audio-visual/hi-fi-and-audio/receivers/onkyo-tx-nr906-476747/review?artc_pg=1
Surprises me here too that people aren't saying ditch the AVR all together and get a separate pre pro system.
Onkyo makes jammin' products- have a DVD that's been reliable (and was affordable).
Yahama is another one- I've had a receiver I bought in the 1980s (that's right the 80s) that not only works perfectly still after 20+ years, but looks like the models today- not dated or worn looking at all. Sure it doesn't have HDMI, etc etc, but it works and pumps out nice sound.
Onkyo makes jammin' products- have a DVD that's been reliable (and was affordable).
Yahama is another great co.- I've had a receiver I bought in the 80s (that's right young-techies, the 80s), but not only does it still work perfectly after 20+ years, it looks almost exactly like the models today - with a nice design style still modern today. Sure it doesn't have dolby HDMI 5.1 blah blah blah, but it pumps out solid thumps.
But if Engadget wants to throw down for my new Onkyo receiver, I'll be glad to put my Yahama in the office, and proudly display the new one in my living room.
Marantz SR8200 works great,
I'd like to see a chipset comparison for video upscalers along with what make/model they are available in.
Does anyone know of a good and current review of video upscalers? I wonder how many of the above mentioned AVRs have the same chip.
Marantz SR5003 - which you can get now for about $550. One of the best reviewed receivers in recent months. I have a SR6003 and love it.
If you guys want to hold off, word on the street is that the 2009 Denon models, starting from the 1910 and upwards will the Anchor Bay ABT2010 deinterlacing/scaling chip that is found in the Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player as well as the DVDO Edge standalone video processor.
I havent heard that but ever since my buddy hooked up his 789 to my system instead of my HK AVR230 Im pretty impressed with Denon and Im pretty sure it will be my next receiver.
Upscaling is a dirty word.
I suggest for upscaling performance the Onkyo 875/876 are very tempting. I have the 875 and don't mind adjusting the white levels over the price difference of the 876. I also own a couple Marantz recievers ( 7xxx and 5003 ). I have to admit the marantz sound is a bit more musical then the onkyo. For general bargain hunting around upscaling I suggest checking the internal chip wether its anchor bay , reon or dcdi check which version it has , any known bugs , hdmi/display issues and usually the higher the price the better the picture.
I know you are asking about pure video upscaling but I have a couple rules of thumb that might help when reading through reviews for begginers.
- Bright recievers go well with soft speakers and vice versa.
- Seperate components usually do the job better then all in ones for the same price.
- If I reach a dead lock between 2 different components with equal ratings id look into weight as a valid metric. ( Heavier the component usually means the better. )
- set a budget , set your main priorities , remember the weakest link concept applies here going down to the cables so budget them in and everything you need to get your system up and running before buying anything.
- Reviews and specs are just guidelines to help make the decision. It should be what you see for yourself and hear for yourself if possible try-before-you-buy which makes the component feel at home and happy with its owner.
Almost every brand has a professional series which you can look into if your budget goes up ( usually happens after lots of research ).
- Onkyo has integra.
- Sony has SonyES.
- Pioneer has Pioneer elite.
Then there are the big boys like lexicon and Mark Levinson which as the guys above have all the latest stuff including upgradability features as standard but for a price that most audiophiles dream about affording.
Denon 789 is a very nice choice for a budget price. 3 HDMI inputs, DCDi chipset, upscales every analog source to 1080p (or whatever you want) and leaves HDMI signals untouched. On the sound side, ot has Audissey MultEQ and DynamicEQ, two features you just can't live without after having experienced them. Truly an awesome bang for the buck.
Too bad the manual and the remote are so moronic, but after being properly setup this thing is a breeze.