Ask Engadget HD: Best home theater setup for small spaces?
By Richard Lawler 
posted Apr 29th 2009 1:00PM
posted Apr 29th 2009 1:00PM
"In a previous lifetime circa early 2000s, I had a dedicated media room and the latest in technology. I'm closer to the city now and square-footage is a premium. Knowing that I'll likely be in an apartment/townhome/condo for the foreseeable future, should I try to use some of my old components (listed below) or just sell them and start new? Keep in mind that I doubt I'll be able to mount any rear channels, so I'm thinking the setup with either have to include rear satellites or be a 2.1 system. I don't require a movie theater-like experience, rather something that's extremely solid for movies, music and gaming.
-- Sony STR-DE945 receiver from 2000 (i.e., no HDMI)
-- Klipsch Quintet 5.1 Home Theater circa 2000
-- No Blu Ray player
-- Xbox 360 Elite and, sadly, HD DVD add-on
-- Samsung 42-inch LCD (perfectly fine)
I've been following the new HTIB offerings from Sony and LG, thinking those might be the answer since my budget is probably around $600, not including whatever I can make on the sale of the above. The Sony system seemed attractive since Blu Ray was incorporated."
There it is, we know your palatial estate is covered with inflatable screens and the like, but condo and apartment dwellers need love too, and not at too high of a price. Let us know what you'd put in that type of space.
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As far as I know, there is no Samsung 42-inch LCD -- only 40- and 46-inch models.
The Sony HT-SS2300 and BDP-S550 (or their 2009 equivalents) is a great choice.
I had a similar scenario pop up while not a condo, we have a uniquely shaped basement in our new house that has a small room that'll be dedicated for HT entertainment.
Prior to moving in, I was using a rather nice 6.1 Athena system that sounds great but has a bigger-than-preferred footprint.... the sheer size and power of speakers is way over the top for the set room. Granted the Klipsch he mentions aren't a huge space-consuming area but I've been considering using either the Yamaha or Polk sound bars versus the Bose 3-2-1 system. While not ideal, there's going to be some trade-offs...
If you're fine with the footprint of Klispch given the room size, I'd say look at replacing the receiver to support HDMI as first priority... another detail I didn't think about was simply DVD storage given the smaller space down there. While not a 'fun' purchase, putting together some creative media storage solutions that fit into the room in an aesthetically-pleasing fashion helped us tremendously.
Good luck :)
dont buy either of those brands. get somthing like the cheapest hk amp from BB and the polk RM speakers. at least this way we wont all make fun of you for buying lg and sony audio.
For small rooms I would take a quality 2.0 audio setup over a cheap surround system any day. A competent integrated amp such as the Virtue ONE can produce a more enjoyable experience, especially with music, from a pair of good bookshelf speakers or slim towers than a swarm of cheap cube speakers powered by a mediocre receiver. I admit it can make integrating multiple sources more difficult, possibly requiring a passive pre-amp or other switch if the tv isn't capable of being the AV hub, but in terms of pure performance good 2.0 is better than mediocre 5.1 any day IMO.
Are you happy with the sound you get today?
If so I would stick with what you have, you can probably tell your reciever to skip the surround channels and just do 2.1.
if the LCD has HDMI i would get a Bluray player and connect the Bluray and Xbox to the tv via hdmi then audio thru the reciever.
Get a harmony remote for ease of use (the 880 is a great buy and can often be found sub 100usd refurb)
Just my opinion :)
I would feel pretty confident in saying your current Quintet is probably better than just about any Sony/LG HTiB, let alone one under $600 with Blu-Ray. Personally, I would keep what you have and put your $600 towards a BR player and HDMI audio compatible receiver (careful with this, the cheapest HDMI receivers don't actually handle the audio, they just act as a video switch).
If you don't plan on getting a Blu-ray setup, I say you're good for now. Nothing you have necessitates an HDMI connection and your HD-DVD player can't do any of the high-res audio formats. HDMI won't do anything better than an optical cable with the content you have now. If anything, I would look for new speakers, but you can get them slowly, when you've got time--there are always good deals on eBay for any price range.
That's actually my question, so a couple of clarifications.
-- Yes, the LCD is 40 inches not 42 (typo)
-- I don't have Blu Ray, but that's one of the main reasons for this upgrade
-- I don't plan on using the HD DVD drive at all
-- The Klipsch speakers actually sound great, but some of these HTIB setups obviously come with speakers
-- I'm not opposed to 2.0/2.1 at all
NOTE: I hope Geoff is actually willing to listen to advice. In my experience, many people just want "permission" to do what they are already thinking :p
Geoff! I am here to help!
But if you are not comfortable with hearing REAL advice, then just ignore me and do what ever you want (like most people do).
THE ADVICE:
Audio in the home is a 2 part system: you have the equipment (speakers, receiver, DVD player, etc.) AND you have the room itself.
BOTH have to be considered and they have to work TOGETHER.
The GOAL is to have accurate, natural sound with a flat frequency response.
There are TWO common approaches:
1) Buy accurate, neutral, flat frequency equipment and THEN try to tune your room to maintain that accuracy. OR
2) Examine your room - identify what it will likely do to your sound quality - and THEN buy equipment that will COMPENSATE for the acoustics of the room.
Which approach is better? That depends upon your circumstances.
IN YOUR CASE:
you probably cannot change the room itself too much. You can't make it bigger. You probably don't want to hang 4" thick acoustic panels all over the place. And you are probably using the room not just for home theatre, but also as a general living space ie. you want it to look like a living room, not a recording studio!
I SUGGEST that you go with approach #2
SO - WHAT DO YOU NEED in a small, untreated room? You need:
a) very wide dispersion
b) slight high frequency roll-off
c) physically small size, but not at the expense of accurate, neutral performance.
DO THIS:
- sell your current equipment
- Buy these EMP HTP-551 speakers: http://store.audioholics.com/product/2297/66234/emp-htp-551-5-1-speaker-system
- Buy this Auralex SubDude to decouple the subwoofer and avoid bothering your neighbors!: http://store.audioholics.com/product/1398/66199/auralex-subdude-trade--subwoofer-flotation-device
- Buy the Onkyo TX-SR507 receiver: Amazon.com is a good source.
- Eventually buy a Blu-ray player when you can afford it
- Get all of your cables and speaker wire from: monoprice.com, tartancable.com or bluejeanscable.com
- Get these Sanus HF1 surround speaker stands: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-820
If you cannot mount the surround speakers to a wall, you still want to be able to get them above your seated ear height for proper placement. The Sanus HF1 are the best stands I have found that allow you to do this!
This recommended system is a huge upgrade in sound quality over what you already have. But MORE importantly - it will work WITH your room to become more than the sum of its parts.
NOTE: I hope Geoff is actually willing to listen to advice. In my experience, many people just want "permission" to do what they are already thinking :p
Geoff! I am here to help!
But if you are not comfortable with hearing REAL advice, then just ignore me and do what ever you want (like most people do).
THE ADVICE:
Audio in the home is a 2 part system: you have the equipment (speakers, receiver, DVD player, etc.) AND you have the room itself.
BOTH have to be considered and they have to work TOGETHER.
The GOAL is to have accurate, natural sound with a flat frequency response.
There are TWO common approaches:
1) Buy accurate, neutral, flat frequency equipment and THEN try to tune your room to maintain that accuracy. OR
2) Examine your room - identify what it will likely do to your sound quality - and THEN buy equipment that will COMPENSATE for the acoustics of the room.
Which approach is better? That depends upon your circumstances.
IN YOUR CASE:
you probably cannot change the room itself too much. You can't make it bigger. You probably don't want to hang 4" thick acoustic panels all over the place. And you are probably using the room not just for home theatre, but also as a general living space ie. you want it to look like a living room, not a recording studio!
I SUGGEST that you go with approach #2
SO - WHAT DO YOU NEED in a small, untreated room? You need:
a) very wide dispersion
b) slight high frequency roll-off
c) physically small size, but not at the expense of accurate, neutral performance.
DO THIS:
- sell your current equipment
- Buy these EMP HTP-551 speakers: http://store.audioholics.com/product/2297/66234/emp-htp-551-5-1-speaker-system
- Buy this Auralex SubDude to decouple the subwoofer and avoid bothering your neighbors!: http://store.audioholics.com/product/1398/66199/auralex-subdude-trade--subwoofer-flotation-device
- Buy the Onkyo TX-SR507 receiver: Amazon is a good source.
- Eventually buy a Blu-ray player when you can afford it
- Get all of your cables and speaker wire from: monoprice.com, tartancable.com or bluejeanscable.com
- Get these Sanus HF1 surround speaker stands: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-820
If you cannot mount the surround speakers to a wall, you still want to be able to get them above your seated ear height for proper placement. The Sanus HF1 are the best stands I have found that allow you to do this!
This recommended system is a huge upgrade in sound quality over what you already have. But MORE importantly - it will work WITH your room to become more than the sum of its parts.
If you like the way your Klipsch sound, a new HTiB won't do any better. If you like your current sound, all I'd do is get a Samsung BD-P3600 and a Harmony Remote. Your receiver has 5.1 analog inputs, the Samsung has 5.1 analog out, NetFlix, WiFi, and Pandora. If necessary arrange all 6 speakers in a non-surround manner along the same wall with the TV. No you won't have surround if you can't put speakers around you, but space wise you're not going to save any more space with a new HTiB over your current setup. My basic recommendation is to spend money to give you new functionality and find a AV stand/cabinet or some AV furniture that maximizes space. A good TV Stand should have space for your components. Relatively narrow and wide will give you shelf space for the 5 speakers, components, and non-AV decor. Throw the sub wherever it needs to be.
I'd use the TV as an input switcher (connect XBox and Blu-Ray over HDMI) and receiver as an audio switcher. The Harmony will get that switching right... most of the time.
i'm gonna have to agree with david here whole heartedly. he really has the best plan that's been posted so far. if you're happy with your speakers, there's no need to upgrade especially since your room is getting smaller not larger. you typically only have to replace speakers when you blow one or you get a larger room they can no longer fill. speaking from expierence, those HTIB things suck balls! you get what you pay for man. i bought a sony DAV-C990 which was their top of the line $1000 model back in the early 2000's and that thing broke like every 4 or 5 months. it was a real piece of garbage! it was one of the few times i was able to take advantage of best buys extended warranty program.
i would either do what david suggests OR take the $600 and head over to best buy. they ALWAYS have some excellent open box deals on receivers. i have bought 3 open box receivers from them and NEVER had a problem. these open box buys are a STEAL! high end gear that is only priced on the cheap because they used it in their demo rooms. you can't find a better deal! lots of them don't have manuals, but you can download them off the net. i picked up a pioneer elite VSX91THX for $350 about 6 months ago (a $1,200 receiver) and 2 years ago i got a harmon/kardon avr 340 for $200 (a $600 receiver at the time). both receivers work as if i bought them brand new but i picked them up over 50% off because they were used in the demo rooms. you can't find a better way to get an awesome piece of gear that cheap. plus all warranties are valid and if you want, you can purchase the extended warranty in case you're freaked out about buying used stuff.
you can get a great receiver on the cheap and then save up for a stand alone blu-ray player or sell that red-ringing xbox and some games and pick up a PS3 and you'll be set.
Home Theater minus Blu-Ray isn't a home theater worth having at this point. Spend a couple extra hundred and get a Blu-Ray HTIB.
Great suggestions, all. I was under the impression I'd have difficulty using HDMI for video and coaxial/optical for audio with this receiver, but maybe that's not the case. I definitely don't have enough room for all 5/6 speakers. So it'll likely have to stay a 2.0/2.1 setup unless there are some proven wireless rear-channel options.
Hi DirtMonkey,
The good news is that you actually have a pretty decent setup "as is". You have a couple of choices on how to proceed:
First, even though you have a reciever that does not support HDMI, the truth is, you really dont need it! You can run HDMI directly to the TV for all the glory 1080p provides, and if you get a Blu-Ray with analog 5.1 outputs, you can wire those into the multi-channel input on your existing Sony receiver and still get uncompressed or lossless 5.1 audio!
If you feel the need for new equipment, I would stay FAR away from ANY home theater in a box. The electronics on such systems are proprietary and usually provide a very limited number of inputs. The speakers on such systems are almost universally horrible. There ARE exceptions, but usually only on the higher end of things.
Instead, I would recommend buying a standard, component sized a/v receiver, the best you can afford. Your old receiver lasted 10 years, I am sure you want that kind of longevity from your new purchase! Plan on spending $400-$500 for something good (but not too good!). Onkyo is pretty good bang for the buck (even if they are designed by a blind man!) and they can be found online for a DEEP discount.
Again, you have a choice...use your existing speakers in a 2.1 configuration, or upgrade. If you want surround sound but dont want to mess with wiring the rear speakers, I would recommend the Polk Audio SurroundBar. It provides a VERY convincing surround effect, with no rear speakers required. You can use your existing sub with it, or just use it by itself (it has plenty of bass all by itself). Stay away from the "IHT" or "Instant Home Theater" and the SurroundBar360 as these are HTIB versions with lower quality speakers.
If you are on a tight budget, I would get the receiver first, then upgrade the speakers later. Spend a little more to get off the very entry level and you will be rewarded with a solid product that will last you many years. Hope this helps!
(p.s. feel free to email me directly, and I will be glad to help further if you need)
Sounds like most agree, at this juncture, the best solution is to make do with what I have and go 1) Blu Ray 2) New Receiver 3) New Speakers.
For speakers I recommend the Polk Surround Bar. You can use your Klipsh receiver and Sub, and still get close to 5.1. I replace my Onyko 7.1 speakers with the Surround Bar and haven't looked back. TBH there are times when I know I should be hearing something behind me and I don't. However, it still sounds amazing and definitely gives an enveloping movie watching experience. In some ways I think it's better because you get a more fluid sound stage.
Good Luck.
I live in an apartment with a smaller living room as well...I went with the following setup:
Sony HTCT100 Sound Bar with Sub-Woofer
PS3
30" LG SuperSlim CRT HDTV
The Sony HT-CT100 employs 3 HDMI inputs and 1 HDMI output. The HDMI is NOT passthrough, it is a repeater, meaning it will do video and audio.
So the PS3 (or perhaps another capable BD player of your choice) can decode the HD audio formats internally and output it as PCM to the HTCT100, essentially providing Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, etc. to the 3.1 speaker bar setup.
At 350 Watts (50W/speaker + 100 Sub), this setup is not gonna blow you away, but for a smaller space, I am extremely pleased with my experience and even need to turn the subwoofer down at night so I don't bother my neighbors living below me.
This setup really worked for me because my TV only has 1 HDMI input and I needed something compact and affordable that would add more HDMI inputs for other devices.
You can find the Sony HTCT100 for less than $300 on Amazon. If you go with this sound bar, you'll want to purchase a BD player that decodes the HD audio formats internally like the PS3. I picked up an open-box Philips BDP7200 on the cheap and audio doesn't sound as good with this player when compared to my PS3 because it can only bitstream HD audio, it can't decode it.
Hope this helps you with your decision. Good luck and let us know what you go with.
"Sounds like most agree, at this juncture, the best solution is to make do with what I have and go 1) Blu Ray 2) New Receiver 3) New Speakers."
I will have to disagree with #3. The Klipsch Quintet should still be able to pull this off. I may be biased because I have them as well, but I bought them for their size because I was in an apartment at the time. I placed the two rear channels on either end of the sofa, so technically, they're on the side. Now that I have a house, they are still amazing, although I tend to increase the volume because I am missing a wall since my living room opens up to the kitchen.
As I see it, all you really need is a PS3. There are cheaper Blu-Ray players, but I was pleasantly surprised with the PS3's approach with regards to media, and this will be good in the long run in regards to your home theater. If you're good with computers and networking, you should be able to play around with DLNA as well.
Disagree, my perfect home theater setup:
Pioneer PRO-11FD
Sony Playstation
Logitech Z-5500
All hooked up via HDMI and digital optical cable.
I recently purchased a Denon 2309CI and a Definitive Technology 5.1 setup for a smallish room. I spent $2000 between the two of them, mounts, and cables. It sounds absolutely fantastic with my PS3. A friend and colleagues was purchasing a HT setup as well and ended up buying the same receiver on his own accord.
I would ditch the sony receiver and look into the yamaha RX-V365 it has all the hd audio codecs you'll need for only $250! Then look into a PS3 for ur blu ray pleasures. Everything else u have in your setup looks pretty legit and if u get the playstation used u should be able to fit it under your $600 limit. Better yet sell your sony receiver and you'll save even more money $$$!
Get a Yamaha Sound bar and a subwoofer. Yamaha's sound bar is the only one out there that ACTUALLY works. I didn't believe it myself until I heard a unit that was set up properly. These things have 27 to 48 speakers individually amplified and time corrected to bounce off your wall at just the right time to get back to your ear to make it sound like there are real speakers around you. Now they offer stuff like HDMI switching and all of that good stuff. If you have limited space, keep these on your list!!!!!!!
Sony HT-7200DH htib ftw
PS3
Panasonic viera 42pz80u
The ps3 & HT-7200DH allow you to get hd audio, amazing sound and picture.
just be sure if you go with blu-ray first, that you get one that has analog out. (usually costs a bit more)
though, I just went through a similar dilema, but i have the STR-DE845. It was either pay more for a blu-ray that has analog out, or upgrade the receiver to get HDMI in, for the HD audio, since you cant do all of the HD audio with optical. I ended up picking up a STR-DG920 through Abt Electronics, who price matched some hole in the wall online, so it was only $379+ tax. I'll be getting a blu-ray player soon enough, when price drops a bit more. Just watch out for some of the newer receivers-- check the weight-- many are using lighter weight, cheaper components to save $$ (usually in the amp section) the 920 i just picked up comes out to just about the same weight as the 845 i just retired. .... sony has discontinued the 920, but some places have them in stock (again) it's replacement, the STR-DN1000 wont be out until june/july...
I have an issue of buy an 50" LCD T.V. or a projector. I'm using it mostly for gaming, but for movies and T.V. as well. I have the room for anything. I don't know much about Projectors and would like some feed back. I'm mostly worried about some lighting and the bulb burning out.