Ask Engadget HD: Best power and line conditioners for a big home theater?
By Richard Lawler 
posted May 7th 2009 12:00PM
posted May 7th 2009 12:00PM
"What do you recommend for power and line conditioners for large home theater systems?
Monster units are the only ones I'm familiar with, but i know they're not the most liked company around these parts. Suggestions?"
James, we hear you. You need a solution where better cabling might provide actual benefit and don't want to finance next weeks crush-the-little-guy lawsuit, we've all been there. We haven't covered a lot of power conditioners around these parts so why don't you let him know what's providing controlled AC to your system?
I would definitely say the Panamax power centers for modest home theatres. For large dedicated theaters I would go with Richard Gray Power Centers.
I've got a panamax 5100 and it works great. 3 separated isolated banks to minimize noise.
Furman is another "better than Monster" line conditioner.
I've had great experiences with APC products. Their customer service is top-notch and is one of the few companies that actually puts you on the phone with a real person. Most of their products tend to be cheaper than monster's too.
I use a Panamax power conditioner... Shows how much juice is running from your wall, and since im in a condo, it ranges anywhere from 113-121 on any given day...
It saved my butt once, power blew, separate breaker on the Panamax caught the jolt and turned my equipment off... just had to reset the power, and reset the panamax switch on the back...
But yeah, I like Panamax over monster anyday... That, and i dont support Monster...
Can we get some more specifics as to what he considers a "large" home theater system? Because whichever products we recommend are going to depend on that.
if you have a "large system" and are only familair with monster, ur must have only been to bestbuy, where they dont have any "large" systems. What amp do you have? what size tv? what brand and type?
I have an old monster power myself because i worked somewhere that sold them so i got more than half off. plus the year model i have has a lifetime warranty instead of the newer ones 3-5 yrs.
hi i have a pany 42 inch 1080p plasma, ps3 , soon to be 360 and an onkyo 5.1 HTS (like $300) what would yall suggest for a power center. All i really know is monster but i know that they are way overprices and very shady thank you
not much, little system, probably monster somewhere@ the $100 range
Panamax PM8-HT
thanks for the ideas guys
can someone please explain to me what this all does? please.
It's mostly snake oil, don't worry about it.
I'm glad you said it instead of me. Unless you live in some wonky ass place with constant spikes, surges, etc, you don't need a power conditioner. You certainly don't need a thousand dollar power conditioner. I run all of my electronics on two UPS's from APC that I got on sale for about 50 dollars each. They keep power going to my computer in the event of a blackout, and as far as I know, are perfectly capable of regulating the power going to your expensive electronics.
Do you need a UPS for a TV? No, not really, unless you need to know that in case of a power outage you'll still have 10 minutes of TV watching time to do. A surge protector should be plenty. I'd suggest putting computers on a UPS, because damage can be done if you yank the power on a computer while the harddrive is writing. TV's and other such electronics are mostly solid state, and there is little risk from turning them off abruptly.
If you still want a power conditioner, Newegg has a monster brand one for 11 dollars plus shipping. Just search for "MPAV600". Unless you have really awful power going into your house, this should be enough. The real power conditioners (the 300+ dollar APC's and others) are more for dedicated home theaters with thousands of dollars of equipment to protect. For average people, they are beyond overkill.
Power conditioners remind me a lot of headphone amps. A friend of mine got suckered into headphone amp madness, despite owning a very low OHM (32 I think) pair of headphones from Sony. Amps are more for people in the 80-300 OHM headphone range, and are useless at 32 OHMS, but he got caught in the marketing hyperbole anyway. The same thing happens to a lot of people with power conditioners and that sort of thing. Marketing departments are eager to sell you equipment you don't need, especially when the market for people that actually need their products is so small
THANK YOU for these posts. I built my own custom projection home theater recently with mid-range equipment, and almost got suckered into buying a pretty expensive power conditioning system. I ended up getting a simple A/V conditioning power strip (Monster) for far less, and everything works great. I'm willing to take a small risk of a random lightning strike (we don't get a lot of thunderstorms in my area anyway) given that chances are I won't ever have this problem. Heck, if something did happen by chance, it would be my excuse to upgrade anyway.
panamax is the best!!!!!!!
You have the right picture up for this post!
APC American Power Company - http://www.apc.com/index.cfm?ISOCountryCode=US
That is the best company with the best products for your home theatre power conditioning/line voltage regulating/surge protecting/battery backup/uninterruptible power supply needs.
There are other reputable companies: Furman, Panamax, Tributaries. But none offer the same combination of flawless performance, excellent design and price as APC.
The exact APC product(s) that you will need depend on your exact situation. You can break down "power conditioning" into several categories:
1) surge protection - obviously needed at any level for basic protection against surges, spikes or lightning strikes
2) EMI/RFI Filtering - probably not needed unless you notice "static" lines on your TV from time to time or live in a very densely populated area. Any electric motor (vacuum cleaner, air conditioner, clothes dryer, etc.) will occassionally dump interference into the power circuits of your home, so filtering is never a bad idea, but not always necessary.
3) Independant EMI/RFI Filtering - almost totally unnecessary unless you like to plug a hair dryer into the same power strip as your TV. This is filtering between devices on the same power strip and other than a very powerful audio amplifier when it is first turned on, no A/V equipment produces enough "back wave" interference to require independant filtering.
4) Voltage Regulation - surprisingly active, but almost never necessary. The voltage from your wall outlet fluctuates. It's supposed to be between 100 and 130 Volts (in North America) and all A/V equipment is made to work perfectly within these tolerances. On rare occassions, the voltage from the wall may dip below 100 Volts or rise above 130 Volts. If and when that happens, a Voltage Regulator can kick in and restore the Voltage to within the correct range. These short sags or surges occur more often than you may think, but they rarely have any effect on your gear due to their extremely short duration. That said, if you frequently notice the lights dim or flicker in your home, then having Voltage Regulation for your home theatre would be a good idea.
5) Battery Backup/UPS - absolutely necessary IMO. Blackouts happen. So do tripped circuit breakers. A Battery Backup/Uninterruptible Power Supply keeps electricity flowing to your gear until the power comes back on. These days, that protection is vital because we have front projectors with hot lamps that need cooling, DVRs with hard drives that will lose recordings in progress or lose guide data, videogame systems that will lose game progress, modems and wifi. I don't have to tell you how frustrating it can be when a blackout happens. UPS is mostly about convenience and allowing all of your devices to still have power when the power goes out, but in cases like hot projector lamps, it's also about safety and prolonging the life of your gear.
APC makes products that do any and/or all of these functions. Myself, I use a J15BLK and it is outstanding.
Check out the full line of A/V specific products - http://www.apc.com/products/apcav/products/
We sell them all...
Panamax is the best for budgets, rock solid, no issues.
PS Audio is the best for high end systems, no power loss, extremely nice.
Monster - overpriced for medium level equipment.
APC - they don't know audio/home theater so their products are overpriced while limiting the power to power-hungry devices.
Pure AV/Belkin - extremely inexpensive but we've had way too many issues with the units not working properly. They look nice but aren't reliable.
Just my two cents...
You must be Rob from APC... Not that I disagree.
I just bought an APC H15 last week and installed it over the weekend. It clicks everytime there is an inconsistancy in the power. I was surprised how often that actually is. I have always used Fuhrman for my guitar rack but thought APC may be a better choice for A/V as we use a lot of them in our IDF's at my company. I have been very satisfied with the reponse of the unit. You can get them on line for around $200 if you shop around.
Furman isn't garbage, but actually does less across most of their range than most people expect. Wildly popular in live sound and studio environments due to their name recognition, they are popular for their "bullet-proof-ness" but don't really match up on features and regluation quality with, say APC, who I believe is the best fit for your situations. Nothing that anyone else has said about APC above is untrue. They are a fabulous company, with great support. If you really do have a large installation, which I suspect you don't but some others may, there really is nothing better than Richard Gray's Power Company, if you can afford the hefty premium. The guy (he makes all the equipment to order in his garage) has more patents on power distribution and filtering than I have fingers and toes, most of which allow his equipment to regulate power more efficiently. There's no one else building products that do quite the same thing as his, so they really are niche products, but I really can't recommend them highly enough, if you can afford up to a grand for the entry level stuff. It's worth every penny, if you've got that kind of dough invested in your Theater.
To clarify, RGPC products are manufactured in a Chicago factory while its administrative offices are in New Orleans. The company did have its roots in the shared garage of two Louisiana audiophiles (Richard Gray & Dick McCarthy) when they were the pioneers of A/V power management over ten years ago.
RGPC maintains an international network of over 800 dealers and has grown every year it's been in existence (even last year) so they've come a long way since the garage in New Orleans.
www.richardgrayspowercompany.com
If you're not sure if you should have one or not and want to keep the cost down, I recommend the Belkin Pure AV line. A PF31 only ran me about $130, and cracking it open confirms it does have all the usual quality filtering components inside. At that price, there's no need to debate weather a power conditioner is beneficial or not.
Interesting to see that nothing from Monster Power is up here yet. I'd previously heard good things about their lineup, but I don't personally use it. Has anyone had any positive or negative experiences with their equipment?
My appologies to Nick, because this is going to sound harsh, but Richard Gray's Power Company products are one of the WORST SCAMS out there. They are beyond the sort of overpriced, underperforming type of scam like Bose or Monster Cable. Those companies' products suck because they are a rip-off, but at least they are not actually dangerous. RGPC products are little more than large induction capacitors. They are NOT UL Certified - which is an absolutely VITAL certification to have with any electrical component! UL Certification is your best indication that an electrical product has been tested and certified for saftey and compliance with all electrical saftey code regulations.
Second - just look at the ridiculous claims that are made on the RGPC website about how an electrical power supply product will supposedly improve audio and video quality. Apparently, we are supposed to believe that A/V equipment have no internal power supplies - no internal transfomers and oh...apparently no AC to DC conversion!
This is worse than SNAKE OIL. It starts out at the level of snake oil by making ridiculous claims that have zero application in the real world, but then goes to a whole other level by actually being dangerous!
Look - it's simple - someone comes along and tries to sell you a car by saying it's the fastest ever, super comfortable and it will instantly make you attractive to any person you fancy. Then you check into it a little bit a realize that the car has no brakes and has never been safety tested. To top it off, they want to charge you an exorbitantly high price for it? Sound like a good deal? No? Then why would it be a good deal for a power conditioner - because Richard Gray's Power Company is exactly that sort of scenario.
Rob is a marketing guy and not an integrator so he's clearly biased towards the brand he represents, as one would expect.
Companies selling "Snake Oil" don't stay in business for 10+ years, especially if the products are potentially dangerous. The FACT is that AV integrators who deal with the largest and most demanding home theaters/systems prefer RGPC for certain applications because they offer higher capacity and in SOME INSTANCES, they actually do make black levels deeper, enhance the soundstage of audio or improve other areas of HT performance.
Rob's claims they are dangerous. In 6 years of installing various RGPC products, I've never had a unit fail nor has one caused any damage to a system or created any unsafe operating conditions so I have to assume he is just playing defense by going on the offensive. All RGPC products are CSA listed which is the Canadian equivalent of UL and an accepted safety certification in the U.S.: http://directories.csa-international.org/xml_transform.asp?xml=classxml/5311-87.xml&xsl=xsl/class.xsl
Regarding price, RGPC products are made BY HAND in the U.S. and not mass produced in a Chinese or other overseas factory. So yes, they are a little more expensive but ask any RGPC dealer or anyone who trusts an RGPC unit to protect their home theater or AC panel and I bet they won't share Rob's sentiments.
If you follow Rob, there is no other solution than APC.
Rob, I have to say I was very surprise to see your comments about RGPC, but more specifically the claims the the RGPC makes. Frankly you are showing that either you are very un-educated in this area or have an agenda as suggested by A/V guy.
RGPC and others at this level like PS Audio, Panamax....etc are not for the "budget minded". By budget I mean that if your system is less than ~$10-$15K then you have a "budget" or "mid" range system and most likely should look else where.
RGPC and others are for critical listeners with a near perfect system. I'm talking guys who have $10-$20K in speakers, driven by monoblock amplifiers (that is a amplifier for each speaker) that cost $3-10K each. Guys that have spent thousands on sound treatment and may have dedicated rooms to the system.
Guys that are looking for every last bit of performance for critical listening that's possible. At this level Power Conditioning and filters make a huge difference. It's that "last mile" so to speak that makes the difference between your standard off the shelf systems and a "reference" system.
So, may I suggest that instead of sounding harsh about something that you clearly don't know about. That instead you state that for your system and your ears, RGPC and others at that level are beyond your level of critical listening and budget and leave it at that. And let the "grown-up", the boys with the big toys and the pocket-books to match provide the critical reviews for RGPC and others.
I don't want to sound hash either, but your analogy is off base. A better analogy is asking someone who just wants basic (but nice) transportation, is a Gulf-Stream G-5 claims of New York to Tokyo unfounded and too expensive. Well, yes to someone who is happy with and can afford coach. But again for the "grown-ups", the boys with the big toys and the budgets, a G-5 is perfect way to go and yes no-stop a NY to Tokyo and Korea to Florida is true.
APC and others like Pure, even Monster are fine products and fill a need at this price point.
Just my thoughts.....
There are no recommendations of Monster Cable Power products because they are a rip-off and thankfully, no one so far has been ignorant enough to actually recommend them. Do Monster Cable Power products work? Sure. They are UL Certified and do the same job as the $8 power strip from Home Depot. Do they work any better than the $8 strip from Home Depot? No. So that is why we do not recommend them. If they charged $8 instead of $200, they'd be fine ;)
The most damning issue with Monster Power is the fact that Monster does not and CAN NOT service their power products. They will do an exchange (usually over the counter if purchased retail) if within the warranty period, but if your power center fails after that, you are SOL. They USED to have a lifetime warranty on their component sized power centers, but that went away.
For the system that Plasalai has, I would recommend the Panamax PM8HT. Should cost you no more than $80, and it has a LIFETIME warranty, as well as a $5,000,000 connected equipment coverage. Panamax is also VERY good at taking care of the customer (paying up)in the event that their product does not stop a surge (hey, it happens!).
You really should hit up AVSForum this type of question, you will tend to get better responses from more people in the know, especially since there are a lot of people in the industry there.
I have heard good things about Panamax and Belkin products for solid and affordable products. If you have the ability to do so, you may also want to look at a whole house solution. Depending on your needs, it sounds like they can range from affordable (as cheap or cheaper than some of the dedicated HT specific solutions) and you would gain more functionality out of it.
If you don't mind spending on the equipment the iPure line from Leveler is amazing. They're not e very big company yet, but as word gets out I think they'll crush the competition. I will be honest in that I am a bit biased in that I have been in their lab and have seen first hand what this equipment can do. It passes virtually zero noise and can take a direct lightening strike to the power lines.
The stuff isn't cheap, I 4 outlet unit is $615 and their big home unit runs $4k, but if spent a few grand on your equipment it's worth it.
www.levelerllc.com
While all these APC and others say they are providing backup power and power conditioning there still may be a break in the sine wave of the supply to the equipment as it switches off wall to battery power. In the past APC, Panamax and other "popular" brands failed in a small datacenter solution to provide pure power with no sine wave spike due to this switching.
With the advent of embedded LINUX A/V devices you will have to look more and more at Data Center type solutions like a Toshiba 1600EP which runs 208/220 3-prong twist plugs but provides pure and consistent sine wave signal and power to 110/120 because it's drawing from the UPS and not the wall socket at a a consistent level at all times hence no upward or downward spikes in since wave. However this would be a more major home theater room than living room type deployment and it's not pretty like Monster or APC equipment so should be hidden.
A balanced power system the way to go. I use an Equitech 1.5Q, but BPT also makes fantastic equipment. The price of admission is eye-popping, the performance and durability is there to back it up.
thank you im gunna look into get one of those
I recommend Surge-X (rackmount or standalone). Rock solid, smooth power, etc... Never had a problem.
http://www.surgex.com/library/10003_productSelector.html
Try the PS Audio Power Plant Premier: http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/power-plant-premier?cat=power. It regenerates the power to your system to provide a pure, clean 120Hz sine wave.
I use Brick Wall products on all my AV gear.
Shouldn't it read, "What is the best air conditioner for an igloo?" An igloo does not need an air conditioner and neither do home theaters need a line conditioner.
oh...
disregard previous posts we actually don't need line conditioners.
anyways, i work at best buy and i have to say at my location we are partnered with magnolia AV and we carry up to panamax m5300 and they are much more popular among customers and salesmen i think most people are aware of the monster gig by now.
My set up is what I consider mid range in nature (Denon AVR 3805, Samsung 50 DLP, Dish VIP 722, iScan HD+, Oppo BDP 83, PS2 and Mac Mini.
For my system, I chose the Panamax 51000 (http://www.panamax.com/Products/A-V-Components/M5100-PM.aspx) along with the PowerKit Pro (http://www.panamax.com/Products/In-Wall/MIW-POWERKIT-PRO.aspx), which is the extension that allows me to leverage the 5100 with my TV even though the equipment is in the closet 50 ft away from the TV.
In addition, I chose to have two dedicated 20 amp circuits feed into the closet for power.
Cheers,
Lo
I use a panamax for my modest setup, and I like it. If I was going higher-end, I would have considered PS Audio among others.
Definitely a big thumbs up for APC. Recently bought their H15 home thetaer power conditioner and it has already started evening things out. I live in a wonky place that constantly has power dips and spikes, and it's nice to know that something is keeping an eye on my stuff.
Man, people that live in the USVI would need something like this! Having lived most of my life there, I can tell you that unless you live on an island where the power is half on or off most of the time, people in the mainland have nothing to fear.
No need to spend $200 on something fancy, folks!
I'll take a dedicated 20amp line run from my breaker box over any line conditioner. BTW, most electricians charge $200 to do this. There seems to be a consensus that surge suppression is really the way to go, not power conditioning.
Of all the above, do any have no active parts/noise makers, such as a fan or otherwise disturbing part? I looked at the apc but they seem to be like their ups with always on fans.
After working with many many APC units ranging from $100 to $100,000 units I can safely say APC makes some of the worse devices.
After seeing VERY EXPENSIVE gear flash on and off for 5 minutes durring a prolonged power outage because of the cycling of the APC units used to "protect" them I'm never gonig to put my equipment on them again.
Oh, btw, the best device you can get is a UPS which has Ferroresonant Transformers in addition to batteries.
I've seen Ferroresonant Transformers provide 110v from a brownout while every other device was sucking wind.
The downside to Ferroresonant Transformers is they suck up energy just sitting there, so expect to spend money on more electricity. But if you really want protection you're ready to pay for it right?
PS, personally unless your house has a history of losing power or brownouts UPS's are a waste of money.