Poll: Is Blu-ray coming to Apple anytime soon?
By Richard Lawler 
posted Jun 13th 2009 12:15PM
posted Jun 13th 2009 12:15PM
[Image from the What Would Jobs Do? 3 photoshop showdown]
posted Jun 13th 2009 12:15PM
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I'm expecting Blu-ray support to require Snow Leopard because of it's hardware acceleration support built-into Quicktime with the appropriate video card.
Apple's #1 priority these days is movie and music sales on the iTunes Store. They believe everyone should just rent their shitty 4mbps "HD" movies and be satisfied. And word is the next version DVD Studio Pro is going to be a very miniscule update; keep Blu-Ray authoring away from the professionals and they can stagnate it's adoption. And while they're making blu-ray authoring impossible, they'll argue that blu-ray adoption isn't to a point yet that it's worth burdening their customers with it's "bag of hurt".
There are people who argue that you can't appreciate a blu-ray movie on a computer screen anyhow, but the point for me is compatibility. I stopped buying DVDs over a year ago, which means I've got a cabinet full of movies that my $1,750 MacBook Pro and $900 Apple monitor can't comprehend.
Not to sound like a troll, but that's what you get for buying an Apple to watch movies with. I own an Apple and I use it for video editing and audio production. I have three PCs I built myself and one is an HTPC that does a great job with Blu-Ray.
I really can't afford to be a fanboy. I find out what is best for each job and use it. Period.
Personally I am avoiding Blu Ray because of its high price tag (during the format war Blu Ray prices had to come down to compete with HD DVD thus spiking a price war -- HD DVD was cheaper to manufacture and could be sold cheaper and still generate a profit -- Blu Ray prices came down so Blu Ray manufacturers could generate market share for the format and their players but had to start selling Blu Ray players at a loss. Case in point the PS3 had a huge price tag of $500-$600 minimum when it first came out and that's just for the system itself -- a hidden tax existed on the PS3 when you counted game sales and accessory sales.
The single greatest factor contributing to the PS3's high price tag was the costly Blu Ray player. It is quite ironic despite Blu Ray besting HD DVD (if I had to choose between the two evils would have chosen HD DVD which had Managed Copying -- which is supposedly now on its way to BD but in 2010 and may only work with new discs, and new players) that the PS3 is dead last in the current console race. Sony hoped to use the PS3 to push Blu Ray adoption, for me personally the inclusion of BD on PS3 is a non starter for me. I opted not to go with PS3 because of Blu Ray. I don't need or want it.
Blu Ray has DRM to prevent personal copying for fair use (Managed Copying only lets you make a digital copy of a disc once to the computer but if the original disc gets ruined you cannot copy the copy with Managed Copy to another disc.) and has incompatibilities with Apple Macs as well as Linux (even if you have one of the newer Intel based Macs that can run Windows which is the only operating system that supports BD authoring and playback -- due to it being the only OS to incorporate AACS encryption since Macs lack Blu Ray drives it is impossible even in the Windows environment unless on a standard PC with Windows -- you cannot use Blu Ray due to Apple's decision to not include it in their hardware -- sure some companies offer the option to upgrade a Mac with a Blu Ray drive in the process you would be voiding your warranty with Apple though) nor will it work with Linux. While Mac and Linux users are a minority compared to Windows PC users they are still users and still deserve to be able to have the same technology as Windows users.
It is possible for Blu Ray technically and legally to come to Macs should Apple decide to bring it to the Mac computer and OS, but Linux which is open source cannot be supported with Blu Ray as no Blu Ray vendor will allow Blu Ray playback on an OS without copy protection -- Linux will never have AACS so legitimately there will never be Blu Ray for the Linux user who will have to hack Blu Ray DRM to make Blu Ray Discs work with Linux.
Granted I do like downloading/streaming media I agree having video in a physical format is better --- I don't see much value in digital storefronts like Apple iTunes for movie sales etc as they don't offer the extra features you can get on a DVD or Blu Ray version of a movie. Also the HD quality on iTunes is not up to speed with Blu Ray but I won't use either because of DRM. I oppose Fair Play copy protection in content distributed via iTunes Store, and AACS encryption on Blu Ray.
Also it is ridiculous how movies released to iTunes for sale/rent often are removed entirely after they leave pay per view -- as iTunes is treated as part of the pay per view window even when it comes to sales, they do this because TV networks airing premium movies don't want competition. Buying a movie from iTunes should be the same as on DVD or Blu Ray in regard to window availability -- if a DVD can be made available of a film or program permanently why not the same with venues like iTunes.
Lets face it Macs can't handle bluray there too slow. And the compressed hd crap they sell on itunes and elsewhere (including the playstation store) runs at half the bitrate as bluray and comes with non-hd audio.
What a comment.
Ever heard of Final Cut Pro? You know, the program used to edit uncompressed HD video, flawlessly? You know the movies King Kong, Zodiac, 300, The Simpsons, No Country for Old Men, Curious Case of Benjamin Button? Yeah, edited in FCP. All BD releases.
You sir are a moron.
I don't think Apple sees Blu-ray ever taking off. I think it's that simple.
This isn't about iTunes. Apple has only ever made marginal amounts of money on iTunes (if any at all), and largely uses it to sell the rest of their systems. iTunes, insofar as it relates to the lack of support for BD, is closer to what Apple believes digital media should be like, and its presence takes the pressure off as Apple's customers have an HD solution in the meantime.
If and when Blu-ray actually takes off and starts to make serious penetration, I'd expect Apple to reconsider their position. But right now it would involve hacking their operating system to support secure path (a major problem that delayed and screwed over Windows Vista), while offering something that only a very, very, small minority actually want over what Apple offers via iTunes anyway.
Last I checked blu-ray was doing just fine. Sure its not as successful as DVD(and probably never will be) but I can assure you the studios are quite content with the numbers which will only improve. The problem with Apple is they aim their products at the higher end of the market so you would think blu-ray would be a given by now. As I'm typing this on my Macbook Pro, I know that if Blu-ray isn't offered on next years models, my next purchase will be a Sony VAIO with blu-ray playback built in.
I like the part when you said "serious penetration" I bet your where imaging Steve Jobs ass when you wrote that.
Actually, Blu-ray is DOING BETTER than DVD at the same point in its life cycle. Or was in January (the recession has probably taken that down some). Just a little correction there.
The big correction: Apple is absolutely into iTunes for the money, and HD movie sales are a serious part of that strategy. Suggesting that iTunes isn't about making money completely ignores history. Apple *has* said that they make very little off each sale *of music*, but it's there to sell hardware like iPods and the ludicrous 720p-in-a-1080p-world AppleTV. AFAIK, however, Apple has never made any claims about movie sales margins.
Apple is holding off on Blu-ray because of their own digital streaming. Pure and simple. It's too bad Jobs didn't know the *real* bag of hurt was the one of his own making! (Oooh, that was harsh, but really... >30mbps 1080p beats the hell out of < 8mbps 720p any day... this bag of hurt is so painful morphine won't even help.)
-Pie
Normally I'd say no, but iTunes 8.2 does contain that reference to Blu Ray in the about box.
I think they'll do it, but with little fanfare and I don't see them pushing the technology.
they are smartly ignoring bluray in favor of the future with digital distro with ms/xbox360. thats where both apple and microsoft will make serious money vs paying the bda to license something they will make very little off of.
I agree with squiggleslash, neither Apple, nor Microsoft (nor myself) thinks BD will take off. I believe it will be the media of choice for videophiles for a time, and never overtake DVD.
The future is for digital downloads for the movie renters and memory-based media for the movie buyers.
I'll feel better about digital downloads when my ISP does not want to charge me $1/GB of data downloaded. If I watch 10 BD movies a month, at an average of 25GB, that is 250GB, or $250 for the bandwidth. Not to mention how much the media provider will want to charge.
I see a problem here (and I don't want some compressed to hell thing with lame audio either) - does Apple?
What ISP do you have that they charge $1/GB? Oh I see you were making an exaggerated point that lends nothing to the conversation.
For those ranking me down, consider the plan he talks about has been scrapped and had a max of $150/month. In reality, under that plan, for $150 you could watch as many Blu-Ray movies as you like.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/10/time-warner-cable-lays-out-broadband-capping-plans-says-150-fo/
@cashmonee
So you obviously know exactly where he lives? Just because he's on EngadgetHD means he lives in the U.S.? I think not. He could just as easily live in any one of the numerous countries that have similar bandwidth caps.
I doubt Apple will adopt Blu-Ray. There is little to no use for Blu-Ray on a computer and the extra DRM required makes the option less desirable. I love Blu-Ray, I have bought into it, but on the computer I just don't really see the advantage.
Yawn - who cares about this company
Thanks for dropping in, Mr Troll
to the guy asking what ISP provider charges $1 per gigabyte...try TWC in Greensboro NC. Its a test market for capped rates. Thats who jackass.
You mean this one:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/16/time-warner-cable-scraps-broadband-capping-plan-in-rochester-ny/
They shelved it. While it is clear that ISPs, especially cable ISPs want caps and metering it is also clear consumers will not put up with it. Also, to try to use the most extreme case of metering (VERY low caps with VERY high pricing in a few test markets) doesn't really show the industry as a whole. I maintain the original comment was sensationalistic and misleading. Not to mention clearly untrue. Unless they still are using this in Greensboro, which I would not know not being from there or having seen any articles to verify that.
BTW, the overages also capped at $150/month meaning the $250 quoted in the comment could never actually happen.
Be that as it may, I invite the masses to go backward and download and stream their severly compressed video and audio. I'll take the prestine quality and lossless audio of Blu-ray disc anyday. It is true that videophiles may be the only ones who adopt Blu-ray disc. I don't believe so. As more and more people are buying HDTV's do you really think they are going to continue to be buying their new releases on DVD? For a new high-def TV? Streaming right now on Netflix sucks, because all they have is a bunch of crap. Take a look at the selection. Downloading takes so long, most homes do not have the required bandwidth, and then there are the polls taken by Video Business, Home Media Retailing and other sources that all say that people prefer their entertainment on packaged media.
I think some of you guys are making sense, but what some of you are talking about with downloading and streaming is years away.
Personal experience: I have a Dish Network DVR and they allow for external hard drives. I bought one of the best, a 500gb Seagate Freeagent. Filled with my favorite movies, the drive failed and nothing could be recovered. Of course I should have made a back-up, but that's twice the cost and time, and that drive could very well die anyday. The Blu-rays on my shelf will work whenever I pull one out, and in the most prestine quality.
I am not a Sony fanboy. I am a support of Blu-ray because for people that love movies, it finally lets us see them as they were seen in the theaters and in sound equal to that of the studio master. This isn't important to everyone, but while they continue to make Blu-rays, that';s where I am putting my $$$.
I'll second that
No reason.. Apple is the type of company that clearly sees the future and even though they went into Blu-ray camp I believe it was mostly to contrast Microsoft.
Everybody knows, including Apple that optical media is a dying breed. It has a few more years and things are all moving to digital downloads. It's only a matter of time when Netflix killls discs completely and goes online only. I believe they already have such a business plan.
Microsoft with 30+ million consoles is pushing online, Apple is pushing online, studios and CEs are embracing it with online services and content distribution supported through online connected TVs, blu-ray and DVD players etc etc..
Apple is not stupid. They've proven that many times. They are clearly onto something here. Blu-ray is future that's already the past. I see no reason for them to support Blu-ray really.
The best thing about iTunes or any other online service for content distribution is that they can increase resolutions as speeds pick up being completely transparent to the home user.
Let's face it.. Blu-ray, DVD, CDs .. that's all already obsolete technology. Stop looking at the past and look into the future. Network connectivity and massive online catalogs at the tip of our fingers. That's the future.
Not so, BD is a great format which is leading in advancing farther in the market than DVD was adopted. People deserve the option, if you don't want it, don't use it, the rest of us need to be able to have our favorite computer company to actually lead in technology.... not censor which tech it uses.
Lets face it, Apple is not holding back because of the residual HD Disc war... it is holding back to push itunes movie store. It is kind of sad, Blu-Ray is great tech to enjoy, to have it and be able to not use it on my computers is a pain. Often times i wished i could use it on my mac pro to full capabilities.
I wished i could also use it on a Macbook Pro. sadly i can't. why should i need to rent a movie or do a digital copy which would need a large amount of hard drive space. If i already own the disc or think a BD is better than a lower quality 720p ... or even just for the extras... let us.
At this point Blu-Ray is doing terrific in the market, HD is great. Apple may need a consumer revolt to step up to the plate. I won't buy a new mac until Blu-Ray is fully adopted and supported on Mac's
Downloadable HD movies may have a low bitrate now, but that won't be the case for long. Soon it won't matter who plays blu-ray, because eventually downloadable HD videos will make blu-ray obsolete.
DVDs hit the masses in 1997 and didn't out sell vhs until 2003. I don't see everyone having 50mbps or higher isp in the near future, most people still have 768kbps connections. Plus when it comes to renting downloadable content your stuck. If you rent from itunes you can only watch it on a computer/apple tv and ps3 store rentals on the ps3. With a disc you can take it anywhere. The only real bluray alternative would be cable/satellite VOD. Until the average computer/media device has the power and connection speed to stream (not download) 1080p or 4k and multiple uncommpressed channels of audio bluray will survive. Until this year most Macs had intel gma chips that won't cut it...now the new 9400m nvidia macs thats the right path.
@thedankone, In addition to the fact that they didn't outsell DVDs, you have to remember also that DVD was a far better product when they did. The ability to watch over, and over, and over, without damaging the magnetics, the ability to skip scenes, the MUCH higher resolution, the special features, the smaller packaging, the mulitchannel audio, the ability to fit longer movies on a single disc without degrading quality, the lower cost of production, etc made DVDs a far more attractive option to the movie buying public. Digital downloads are not that way. Most are noticeably inferior to Blu rays in quality, lack special features, are completely non-portable and require a top notch internet connection. Digital downloads are convienent, but as poll after poll has confirmed, the people who buy movies don't want digital downloads more than they want blu ray. They will have their place, but people like sad sack, in their zeal over new technology forget that most people do not share their worship of whatever is new when there is always what is known, comfortable and reliable. Downloads will not have that advantage in our lifetime.
HD downloads will never replace blu ray, they may eclipse it, but they won't replace it, that's a stupid sentiment from simple minded people. In industry terms it costs pennies to author a blu ray if you already have the video packaged in an HD digital format, so why not throw some blu rays onto the market? Give me a logical answer to that blu ray haters and I'll jump onto your idiot filled bandwagon.
As for apple, I think their product is expensive enough as it is. Don't get me wrong, if I didn't know my way around linux, I'd be in the apple store once a week oggling the mac pros, but as it is I'm not interested in taking out another mortgage on my house in order to get a computer. BD drives and licensing fees are just going to cost consumers more, and even if you can manage to keep the lower echelons insulated from that, then you have a big feature missing from them, making them look inferior. Plus, on a screen that big who needs HD? I don't even use my computer's DVD capability (other than to rip files to my shared media drive), why would I use it for BD when I have a perfectly good BD player upstairs?
@ Nick for his comment "HD downloads will never replace blu ray" oh you are halarious, ok you keep holding on to that dream if you wish, the rest of us will be laughing at you in a few years whilst dowloading on out fiber 100Mbps (or faster) connection.
Oh yeah, I'm sure everyone in the country will be doing that, including those who live in the middle of nowhere, don't have a lot of money, like occasionally watching videos on the road, don't have computers and therefore have little use for the internet, live in either boats or RVs, or simply don't trust that their DRM-laced lossy downloaded videos will be there when they get home. No, you're right, none of that is a large enough market share for profit hungry corporations to spend nearly NOTHING to cater to. Idiot. In order for downloads to COMPLETELY supplant blu ray, you would have to get a majority of the HD movie buying public to choose them over BD. A vast enough majority to make it unprofitable for the movie industry to sell blu rays. Given sinking blu ray pressing costs, material costs, and the FACT, as I mentioned and you did NOT refute, that authoring costs are a pittance in the grand scheme of things, I do not see it being economical for studios to abandon blu ray as a profit making machine.
Much of this country still doesn't have access to internet above 2mbps, what makes you think that anytime soon, before another, better physical media DOES supplant blu ray, downloads will be able to catch up? It's been how many years since Napster first made downloading songs chic, how many years since ipods and other MP3 players have made carrying around CDs a nuisance that nobody wants to go through, and yet CDs are still around. Still going strong. Some form of physical media will always be around. Period. You are stupid and your conclusions are based on insufficient evidence. There will always be a market for physical media, and if there is a market, there is a greedy multinational corporation ready to exploit that market for profit. Love or hate it, that's capitalism. As long as the costs of producing blu rays are lower than the revenues that they produce, they will exist. Argue with that or get the fuck out.
and every single one of those people you listed doesnt give a crap about bluray or even have a hdtv set yet nor do they plan to. THAT is why bluray and digital distro will never match dvd. I also find it a bit funny that people you cite blurays portability when there are very few portable devices out there in the market. apple has the ipod touch/iphone and ms will have the zunehd for their mobile side. it really is funny when bluray has resorted to giving you digital copies with the discs because they know how poor their portable devices are.
I fully do expect bluray to be around for a very long time but I also expect within the next 5-10 yrs more movies will be sold and viewed online that through physical media. thats what most blu fans fail to consider imo.
I was really hoping to see a brief appearance of BD at WWDC, but no dice. It's an interesting point that dagamer brings up about speed improvements. Also a reason for now as the time for BD support, HDCP via DisplayPort and the format war has been officially over for a while now. reasons for not seeing BD support are that while the Mac Pros can easily and currently house a BD drive, the Pro laptops can't. They're the world's thinnest laptops for their size, and while I don't have any facts to back me up on this, I'm guessing that there's just not BD writers, or even readers, that can fit in them. I even believe when the 15" MacBook Pro was first announced, that it didn't even do dual-layer burning because there wasn't a drive that fit. Then the 17" came out with one and at that point they were able to build it into the 15", but logistically I don't think they could add it to the majority of the machines they sell, those being their laptops.
I Am an Apple fanboy, I can admit that, but I've given up hope for BD. I guess WWDC wouldn't have been the best place to announce it because it's not like developers could access BD movies, especially with all the added encryption and copyrights added. I could maybe see an announcement at some Pro software event, but with AppleInsider reporting on the eventual Final Cut Studio 3 release not including any major update to DVD Studio Pro, I don't see BD coming at all. Instead of being able to use my MacBook Pro and 23" Cinema Display to watch my movies on, I'll just be buying a 1080P LCD TV and BD player in the fall when I move into my new place.
-Brian
I own several PCs and a Mac. Multiple HDTVs too. No interest in BR. Love movies but that bump in quality for BR is not worth the extra cost or hassle - I watch movies for stories/dialog not visuals. I couldn't careless if the explosion looks better or if the sound is 10.3. After watching over 5000 movies there's nothing visual that will impress me with a movie/tv.
HDTVs? no interest in high def?
You must be joking. either that or you are really foolish. what a goddamned waste, rofl
sell all that on ebay, u dont deserve it.
Here's one of the mega problems. Mac Pros are what A LOT of us are using in the movie and tv industry for all of our media projects. Now that we've moved so far in the HD direction, Blu-Ray is becoming a standard for delivery of HD content. Burning Blu-Rays from projects edited on either AVID or FCP has become a necessity, and that fact that this cannot easily be done on these super expensive machines is disgraceful.
I've bought my last Mac until Blu-ray appears in DVDSP. I've bought my last upgrade to Final Cut Pro software until DVDSP supports authoring Blu-ray. I've been a loyal customer of Apple since 1984 and have purchased two PCs when I needed them to fill an Apple void. It seems like Blu-ray is becoming ... a world of stupid for Apple!
It's not just movie viewing, data backup/storage is big here at work, and blue seems to be the long term choice for storage. I know we bought a La Cie Blue burner that worked great with 10.4, but when we upgraded from 10.4 to 10.5 the app stopped working, we had to leave one of our Apple OS’s at 10.4 in order to keep the Blue working, in 10.5 it would not read or said the disc was empty when it had data. We needed to upgrade that Apple so our work around is to use a PC to save off to Blue now...
As much as I like FCP and Apple for editing, the current Sony Viao and Premiere make a pretty powerful team; Viao has HMDI outs, converts DVD video without having to buy a program, etc...Looks to me like Apple's marketing is becoming a bit slow and un-responsive to what its customers are looking verses what Apple wants to sell (remember the American auto industry).
I'm not buying, though I'd like to, something just isn't right, I’m not rich so unlike the guy above who has a computer for each application I need versatility and longevity. For now Apple just does not look like a good investment.
If you guys at Apple want some more marketing help give me a call, my rates are reasonable.