DVRs, Moxi HD DVR Review
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Jun 22nd 2009 1:00PM
posted Jun 22nd 2009 1:00PM
Your cable company's DVR doesn't compare
Before you dig in we wanted to make sure all of this was taken in context. What we mean is that we've tried plenty of DVRs from cable and satellite companies and they don't hold a candle to the Moxi. Just to name a few key points that sets the Moxi apart is the nice size hard drive and a great looking widescreen HD user interface. The fact is that Digeo pays attention to details that your cable or satellite DVR supplier has never considered. So going forward keep in mind that we're really comparing the Moxi to the other 3rd party DVR options like TiVo and Windows Media Center.
Things are different
One of the our favorite sayings we learned in college is "don't confuse easy to learn with easy to use." While this was told to us as we tried to master VI, it holds true for gadgets too. In fact we are the rare breed that is actually excited whenever we are faced with a new interface. Rather than thinking a new UI is consuming and daunting, we embrace it as not only a challenge, but also with excitement because we might be learning to use something truly better. One thing is for sure, the Moxi UI is much different and unlike anything we've used before. Some things make sense like listing the channels in the guide the same way they work if you hit channel up and down, but other things like the "Moxi" button navigation continue to baffle us.
The fact is that even after a month of use we still get lost and frustrated with the menu navigation. The real problem is that the "Moxi" button changes function depending on the context and doesn't serve as a "home" key. On top of this there really isn't an "exit" button that just takes you out of the menus. If you hit the Moxi button once, it takes you to the guide, again takes you to the mini guide, a third time, back to the guide. So how do you get rid of the guide? You don't, you have to go to the mini guide and wait 5 seconds for it to time out. But this isn't as annoying as getting lost in menus and exiting out accidentally. Let's say you hit the Recorded TV button -- which has a diamond logo on it btw -- then you hit right twice, now you're at "Find & Record." If you hit that while you were watching a recorded show you're stuck until you hit Moxi, Moxi and wait 5 seconds. The other thing we haven't been able to get used to is the use of the "back" and "next" buttons. It seems to us they just add confusion and the right and left buttons could be used instead in most cases -- we did like how we could use them to skip large chucks of a show during playback, like when skipping most of a 3 hour football game to get to the end. But the annoyances don't end there, little things that would have be so simple to implement are overlooked. Like when resolving a recording conflict, instead of the menu asking if you want to record Heroes or Monday Night Football, it asks if you want to record A or B. Doesn't seem like it is too much to ask to have the menu display the actual show names.
Too many clicks
The whole point of a DVR is to allow us to enjoy television the way we want, and a big part of that is staying out of the way. Using the Moxi really makes you shake your head and wonder if additional steps were intentionally added. The best example -- besides the exit alternative we mentioned earlier -- is when you want to record a show. You're watching live TV and decide to do something else, but you want to watch the rest of this show later, so you hit record and are faced with a menu of options. Hitting record again will record the show, but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to record a show with the press of a single button -- that is of course if there was actually a way to set recording preferences. There should be a way to say every time I hit record, get the entire series and keep 5 until I watch 'em. Instead you have to choose it at the time of recording and then later go back and edit it with the rest of your preferences. We know plenty of other DVRs do it this way too, but that doesn't make it ok.
Recorded TV
By far one of the most annoying things about the Moxi DVR is the fact that there are no recorded TV display options. No sort by name or date, with or without groups, nothing. This is a huge oversight and for people who record as much TV as we do, it can be very daunting to navigate 200 shows without any of these options. To top it off, the list doesn't make great use of the limited screen real estate and requires an extra click to see the show details. There just has to be a better way.
One size does not fit all
The cross based interface is very common these days and can be found in all kinds of devices. While we think it makes perfect sense for some things, it doesn't make sense everywhere. What Moxi has done is take a one size fits all approach and apply this menu to everything. Now you might argue that this makes for a consistent interface, but it really doesn't as sometimes going left takes you back and other times it doesn't. It appears that this cross bar is a central part of the Moxi design and it was applied everywhere intentionally, whether it makes sense or not -- with the exception of the search interface. The best non-obvious example of where it doesn't work -- the most obvious is the guide -- is with the list of recorded TV. Because of the cross bar there really isn't any place to put thumbnails of the video, and you end up with wasted space on all four corners. To make matters worse, the main menu is cluttered with items. There are 18 items on our main menu, of which we find about 5 useful (Guide, Recorded TV, Settings, Find & Record). There is no way to add or remove these or even reorder them. As with the rest of the Moxi UI, there just aren't any ways to customize anything, which unfortunately is a big theme in set-top-boxes in general.
The video spoiler window
We are sure there are people out there who wouldn't think about owning a set-top-box that didn't have a video window and that's probably why just about every provider's DVR has one, but we're not them. Personally, when we're watching TV we want the video to be full screen and when we're not, we want the entire screen to be dedicated to the menus. In a perfect world the Moxi would have the ability to do both, but with the limited number of configuration options, it's no surprise that the video window is forced on us. At the most it is somewhat useful, but at worst it is the spoiler window. We suppose part of the reason we don't like it is because we don't really watch live TV, so really the only thing it can do for us is to ruin a show that we want to watch later. Don't worry though, there is a work around. All you have to do is record a show you aren't interested in watching and then play it back while you're navigating the menus -- real nice huh?
Where's the innovation?
You'll probably be as surprised as we were to learn that Digeo has been around since 1999 -- this is the company's first consumer DVR though. The ten year history combined with all the hype we've heard over the past few years has built up some pretty high expectations that something really special was in the works. Unfortunately aside from pretty menus, there really isn't anything to call home about here. We could go on and on listing ways DVRs should be improved, again, but instead we'll say what's new Moxi? What have you done? There is the ticker which is pretty useful, and the tight integration with Moxi.com that is welcomed, but that alone isn't going to be enough. But what's worse is that the Moxi doesn't even really compare to the TiVo's features. Although we think TiVo's implementation of multi-room is a complete joke, at least there is something. Sure the Moxi-mate should be coming, but rumor has it that it'll be a playback-only device without the ability to watch live TV. There also isn't any TiVo-To-Go like functionality. The UPnP support sounds really cool until you realize that you can only stream content to the Moxi and even then, the codec support is pretty laughable. To us the most obvious innovation that almost no DVRs have is more than two tuners. A multi-stream CableCARD can authorize six simultaneous streams and most hard disks today can easily write 120Mbps, so why not offer more tuners? There are other features that seem like a no brainer too, like Slingbox, Netflix, Pandora, etc. PlayOn kind of fills the gaps for some of these, and the free license is a nice touch, but there are no guarantees that it'll continue to work since its Hulu and Netflix features aren't sanctioned and could be cut off any day.
What we do like
We added this section after re-reading the rest the review a few times. We realized that we got so caught up in all of our frustrations, that we completely forgot to mention all the things we liked about the Moxi HD DVR. For starters setup was a breeze, in fact we had no problems getting the M-Card going with Verizon FiOS. The picture quality is right on par with what we expect and we appreciate things like the resolution pass through setting that allows us to pass on the scaling tasks to our TV. The hardware looks as great as the HD user interface and the glowing Moxi logo on the front is a nice touch -- can be turned off too if you like. Not only do you not have to know some secret code to turn on 30 second skip, but it's configurable so you can skip 5 minutes if you prefer. The online scheduling with Moxi.com is the best we've seen and even has real time conflict resolution. The ticker is great for quick weather updates. The remote has a nice feel to it and is back-lit. The dual live buffers are huge and can be recorded if you decide to record the show. The payment options are a very attractive way to pay when faced with a $800 price point. To top it all off the unit is rock solid. In all of our testing it never missed a single recording or rebooted unexpectedly.
Conclusion
Reading this it isn't hard to see how disappointed we are in the Moxi HD DVR, especially since we really wanted to like it; we had such high expectations. With so many negative initial impressions, we were happy when Digeo reached out to us to address our concerns. It was very encouraging to hear that Digeo was already aware of some of our pain points and is working on solutions, but we're afraid we don't believe it'll be enough. Ultimately we think the essence of the Moxi isn't in line with our tastes. What we mean is that even if this box had six tuners, and true multi-room, there is no way we see Digeo going away from the cross bar based UI and the spoiler window. No DVR is perfect and if the Moxi did everything we wanted and still had these glaring UI quirks we could totally see us looking past them. But the fact is the Moxi really only beats TiVo in the UI and website management categories, with TiVo killing it with features and price. Windows Media Center offers a much, much better UI, but using a PC for a DVR is well beyond the capabilities of most consumers -- not to mention the price. So unless you totally hate TiVo, we can't really recommend you go with a Moxi instead. That being said, if you are down to choosing between your provider's DVR and a Moxi, there is no contest, Moxi all the way.
A response from Digeo.
"We designed the Moxi guide for simplicity and intuitiveness - you can never get lost in the two-axis navigation. For example, a key item that Ben missed is that you can exit automatically from any Moxi menu screen in one click by pressing the "Zoom" button, which 'zooms' you into the viewing window in the top right corner and immediately back to live TV or playback of recorded programming. As for Ben's reference to the channel guide layout, while the nearly half-million cable customers using Moxi tell us they really like it, we have heard customer feedback from some asking for an old-fashioned grid-style layout too - so look for us to add that option shortly. More to that point, we are working on several more innovations of the type Ben mentions in terms of multi-room, Internet content integration, etc., so stay tuned. We
believe Moxi is the world's best DVR, and we're not letting up on the updates and improvements.
- Ryan Ogle, Senior Manager Retail Business, Digeo"
Forgot to mention Moxi's clear-QAM channel mapping feature. Probably the only reason I would buy a Moxi over a Tivo.
I still own 2 ReplayTV 5500s (160 and a 40 hour). I presently don't pay a lot for standard def cable, and the fact that I and my wife can watch even OTA shows timeshifted is really al we want. The fact that the ReplayTV has network capabilities (watch on one while stored on another is the main selling point (as the singular hardware was better than Tivo about 6 years ago).
I am looking into PVRs and HD service (even though I don't want an increase in price). Looking at Dish's new 922 (slingbox built it, and an ipod touch / ZuneHD) to go with it.
That and my XBOX360 with online Netflix Instant Queue is giving me everything I need!
You are probably the only people who say that they hate the "spoiler window". You even say that in your review. So why are you so bent on the fact that it is there? I like it and most people I know like having it there. Plus MOXI is the only DVR to show it in HD still. The cable companies DVR squishes it and it looks like crap.
I hate the PIP as well and consider it a spoiler window. The ONLY thing I could see it useful for is to setup a recording of some show I come across while the whole family is watching and want to keep watching the initial show. PIP is definitely not on my list if things I want in a DVR.
Now the things I would want
pay over 3 monthly installments
streaming MRV so no copy needed and no DRM in the way
flexible integration with online streaming services so I can configure it to get what I want
ability to setup a scrolling ticker with info I can use - like weather, caller ID or news and sports
Put me in the group with hatin' on the PiP also.
Ben,
For future reviews, I think it would help if you could include a 720p video showing the device and its menus in action. That would allow you to illustrate any problems you have in UI navigation. For a device with video output, you can do that with a Hauppauge HD PVR (which requires you to move a computer in close proximity to the product). For other devices, you can use something like a Flip recorder.
To help others understand what you mean by the spoiler window, you might clarify that with an example, such as sports. Ex: You expect to be out Sunday afternoon so you setup a recording for the big game. You want to watch it from the beginning when you get home. You turn on the Moxi and you see the score in the third quarter --- there's no way to hide it -- ruining the first half of the game for you.
Aside from that, the only obvious oversights I see are (a) no mention of ATSC (OTA) support, or lack thereof, and (b) no mention of ClearQAM support and how it works. I realize that ClearQAM doesn't benefit you as a FiOS customer with CableCards, but many are interested in the capability for use with [limited] basic cable. Screenshots showing
the online QAM mapping interface would be nice.
I'm in agreement on not liking the idea of a "spoiler window". Perhaps it's because I also rarely watch live TV.
Here are a few edits for the author:
One of the our favorite saying we learn in college (S/be "One of our favorite sayingS we leardED...")
we are the rare bread (brEEd)
Lets (Let's) say you hit the
for people who records (record)
atractive s/be attractive
To top it all of (off)
Thanks for the corrections.
The company is Digeo not Diego. Diego is Dora's boyfriend.
Diego is Dora's cousin, pervert ;)
Man, all of those points sound painful. Another glaring omission, IMO, is the lack of OTA tuners. As cable co's continue to compress in order to offer more channels, it is nice to use OTA for your locals. TiVo has an OLD UI, but it seamlessly integrates the cable card channels in with the OTAs, a very nice feature.
I really want a strong competitor to force TiVo and Windows Media Center to continue to innovate. I had high hopes for the native HD user interface on the Moxi box.
That said, the lack of over the air tuners is a deal breaker for me. I gave my cable company the old heave-ho back in October when they switched HDnet and HDnet Movies to switched digital video. I realized that 85-90% of what I watch is network HD that is available for free over the air.
Time Warner announced that they were getting rid of HDnet and HDnet movies and I felt even more certain about my decision to deep six cable. Then Turner Classic Movies and BBC America announced that they were launching HD channels by late July and I actually gave some serious thought about paying for television programming again. However, Time Warner's foolish decision to drop HDnet Movies means that I will have to wait for the new HD DirecTivo box. Time Warner Cable will get $30 from me every month for internet access, but they won't get a dime for video programming.
And....I hate the spoiler window too. I have gotten burned too many times with sports scores.
"if you are down to choosing between your provider's DVR and a Moxi, there is no contest, Moxi all the way."
Umm, based on this review, it sounds like MY provider's (DirecTV) DVR is far superior to Moxi. Aside from the lack of an HD GUI, it's far more intuitive, and even has an Exit button!
The only thing that bothered me were the lack of an exit button and the sorting. Otherwise nothing Ben mentioned seemed like that big of a deal. After looking at the video most Ben's complaint seem very minor to me.
I've owned a moxi for a couple of months now and have been pleased overall with it. The one thing that is very anoying is that I do not get all of my channels even after the June 12th transition. Moxi customer service has been a joke and trying to explain to my wife why it was a good idea to spend $800 on a dvr That doesn't get all the channels when the 4 ones we already had worked perfectly fine in her opinion has been fun lol. If it wasn't for their customer service I would have changed out my other 3 boxes already because it really is a good dvr. Picture quality is far superior to my other dvr(s) and it has alot of really cool features. I still can't get over the fact that as of 3 days ago customer service is still trying to get me to spend $25 on an analog "dongle" when the June 12th deadline has come and gone. If it was something that was needed it should have been included in the hefty $800 price tag. I'll stick with my one moxi and 3 cox dvrs. Maybe if they actually release the "moxi mate" I will pick a few of those up but I won't be buying another moxi dvr as I had planned.
We designed the Moxi guide for simplicity and intuitiveness - you can
never get lost in the two-axis navigation. For example, a key item that
Ben missed is that you can exit automatically from any Moxi menu screen
in one click by pressing the "Zoom" button, which 'zooms' you into the
viewing window in the top right corner and immediately back to live TV
or playback of recorded programming. As for Ben's reference to the
channel guide layout, while the nearly half-million cable customers
using Moxi tell us they really like it, we have heard customer feedback
from some asking for an old-fashioned grid-style layout too - so look
for us to add that option shortly. More to that point, we are working on
several more innovations of the type Ben mentions in terms of
multi-room, Internet content integration, etc., so stay tuned. We
believe Moxi is the world's best DVR, and we're not letting up on the
updates and improvements.
- Ryan Ogle, Senior Manager Retail Business, Digeo
Ryan,
Thanks for chiming in. I really appreciate your input and to make sure it doesn't get lost in the comments I appended it to the bottom of the review.
I look forward to seeing more from Digeo in the future in the hopes of seeing the product improve.
Ben
I bought the Moxi HD DVR two months ago and I absolutely LOVE it! I have had 2 DVRs provided by Comcast for around 5 years and there is no comparison at all. In the review by Engadget it clearly shows they have not spent a lot of time learning the controls to figure out the buttons and the menus. Actually the picture is better than the old DVR Scientific Atlanta that Comcast provided. The proof of this is Transformers, I get way less pixel problems.
The reason why the menus do not provide a sort option is because it groups the shows by name; therefore a date sort option does not apply.
If you do not record a lot of shows, do not buy it. If you do record a lot of shows, do yourslef a favor and get the Moxi. I got tired of paying my Cable provider $200 per year in dvr rental for something they refuse to improve. Many people complain of the old school grid style view. I like Moxi because you can see way more channels at the same time instead of the 5 if I remember correctly. As I said, I use it a lot and there are TONS of advantages and a Great user experience. So far no problems, no boots. Nothing but a great experience
Carl,
I'm glad you love your Moxi, but the point is why is it so hard to learn to use? We spent two months with it playing with it every day and my wife refused to use it. It'd be one thing if it stood head and shoulders above the 3rd party alternatives in features, but it doesn't even match the features one on one.
I do agree it is worlds better than your comcast DVRs though.
Did you ever try streaming media from your PC? Netflix of Hulu?
Did you try viewing movies or listening to music from off your PC?
I thought the way this was implemented was horrible. No cover flow. Album art doesn't pick up. Lack of codec support.
The DVR part of Moxi is only 1/2 of it. Problem is, the other 1/2 (the media player) is, well, kind of crappy.
And I would disagree with the lack of grid layout. They should at least give me an option: their layout, or the grid. Looks like they're going to fix that at least.
I, for one, returned my Moxi primarily because it did not function as a media player in a nice way.
I'm always surprised when people talk about the cost of windows media center being prohibitive, I mean if you already have a computer and a 360 then all you are really buying is the tuner card, and if you aren't concerned with cableCARD support those can be very cheap and easy to setup. To me I only consider the cost of my media center to be the 120 I paid for a hauppauge 2250, since my computer was sitting here before I set it up as a 7MC box. If you want to dedicate a box to do media center only then it is. But I persoanlly like one box for my main rig and Media Center because I only have to manage one box. Just my two cents on Media Center price.
You also have to take into account the actual power consumption of the PC as well. Each PC in my apartment adds around $15-20 to my electric bill each month. This is usually why a lot of people just throw their hands up in the air and end up buying a TiVo anyways.
Eh I have my computer to be asleep whenever it isn't recording/being used/watched. And I'm saying add it to the computer you already have and use the 360 you currently own and there isn't that big of a price point (and that computer would already be on and using electricity). Especially given what you get out of it. I think the real reason you don't see people doing it, is because 1 most people can't set it up, and 2 a lot of general users don't know it's possible. I know when I describe it to most people they look at me like I'm a crazy man. I don't know for me the reason I have my media center/extender is because it was cheaper and better.
I also hate the spoiler window.
If I know I'm recording a Laker/Angel game. . or Lost, I press the TiVo button before I turn on the TV.
The price is so high, and I don't see a justification for it.
As far as the direct / retail channel, I just don't see this thing making a dent from what I've read. Either people have their TiVos, their cable company DVRs, or their Media Center PCs.
Maybe if it was $299-$399. I guess $399 considering the hardware cost, this isn't a toy.
It seems like the company is attempting to recover its NRE (development) costs way too quickly. In an economy like this (esp. the next 18-24 months), a premium DVR is a tough sell.
Unfortunately the company will probably be swirling the drain in 24 months, assuming their quality & customer service are good enough to last even that long.
Just my 2 cents, I don't have a dog in this hunt, it just sounds like poor execution and that's a shame since we do need a good, feature-rich, affordable HD DVR product, and I would have liked to have seen this be a viable alternative.
I welcome a new generation of DVR. The STB/DVR combos are never really thought out well and lack the features that third party devices do.
I like the preview window, because usually I am browsing through hundreds of channels and recorded TV lists, and I like to be able to keep track of what I was watching - in case I don't find something better.
As for it showing up when I come back in the middle of a game - this has happened before - but now I know when the show is still being recorded that I should change the channel as soon as I turn it on with the channel up or down buttons - and then start browsing to the recorded programs. There's no way for the device to know if you are going to be spoiled by having the program being recorded tuned in when you turn it on - and that is as much of a spoiler as showing the preview in the guide. The only good way that I can think of to prevent this would be to add a setting to have it start up in a menu without any show previews when you turn it on (no spoiler mode) - probably no small task, and also probably not worth it. I learned to be smarter than my DVR.
As an HR20 "owner" (sigh), I must say that OTA integration is not something I will easily give up. Very handy, and where DirecTV fails, OTA wins. Always nice to have a fallback for NFL games on satellite, especially in my state (WI).
Being able to attach an external drive for expanded storage is actually a deal-breaker for me. Tell you what - since you DVR companies always seem to double the price to increase storage by 30% - why don't you go ahead and ship one with a 40GB Hard Drive on the cheap and I will go ahead and add the 1.5TB for $125 myself. Where do you guys buy your hard drives, anyway?
Other usability issues Ben mentioned also are present in my own DVR - and they aren't a huge problem. However, my friends have Moxis through Charter, and I do think the cross navigation can be a pain. I think it takes them longer to find stuff due to the layout. One of my major beefs with it was that you had to go to a special menu to find out how much storage you had. When watching and choosing to save or delete a show or series - it's critical information that needs to be displayed in the recorded shows listing at all times.
"There's no way for the device to know if you are going to be spoiled by having the program being recorded tuned in when you turn it on."
Of course it can. It is possible to provide the best of both worlds. It just requires a little intelligence in the design.
To eliminate the spoilers without eliminating the window, Moxi can:
(1) Always start single recordings on the inactive tuner, when possible.
(2) When the user finishes watching a recorded program, always default the liveTV window to whatever channel is not recording.
(3) If -- and only if -- two programs are recording, then black out the video window with the message, "Two recordings in progress. Press the X button to display the picture." The DVR should remember the user's choice for the duration of that recording, so the user does not have to do this again.
Items (1) and (2) should be the default. Item (3) can be option in settings, i.e. "Hide video window for recordings in progress."
If Moxi wants to see positive reviews from experienced DVR users who record the majority of their programs, then it needs to make these or similar changes. It is these experienced DVR users that make up the majority of reviewers at various Internet news sites and blogs.
As is, Moxi can only expect to receive positive reviews from more casual DVR users who still spend much of their time watching liveTV. No matter how good the experience for casual DVR users, you can't expect to succeed in the third-party DVR market without implementing the feature(s) necessary to get experienced DVR users on board.
"The reason why the menus do not provide a sort option is because it groups the shows by name; therefore a date sort option does not apply."
Grouping is a standard feature on most modern DVRs. Within each folder, you expect contents to be sorted by date. However, for the displayed order of the folders themselves, sort by date certainly does apply. Some people like their folders listed in order by name, others like their folders listed in order by the date of the latest recording. Other DVRs give you the choice of sort order, while Moxi does not.
Note the sort order in the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNvgoLVzijE&fmt=22
I wouldn't want my sports team recordings displayed at the bottom of any list. I consider sports to be time-sensitive; if there is a new sports team recording, I want to see it at the top of the list.
I'm horrified. I just got one, and the functionality is horrible. Bottom line: if you expect this to be a decent DLNA box, media box, or to stream media to your TV, you will be dissapointed. Even with the Netflix and Hulu supposed compatibility (which is really just through PlayON).
Read my review of this machine here.
http://mrod305.blogspot.com/2009/06/moxi-hd-dvr-review.html
I am a little slow to understand the comments above, so let me have Moxi to play with for a little while and maybe make sense of this wonderful machine.
Moxi Rules !!!!