DVRs, Ruling lets DISH customers keep their DVRs for now, TiVo says it's just a matter of time
By Richard Lawler 
posted Jul 2nd 2009 11:19AM
posted Jul 2nd 2009 11:19AM
News of another delay should be absolutely no surprise to anyone that's followed the details of this case, as DISH was granted a stay by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit pending its appeal of a $190 million ruling in favor of TiVo which will allow its customers to continue using their DVRs, at least for now. For its part, TiVo repeated its praise of the "thorough and well-reasoned decision finding EchoStar in contempt of court for violating the injunction and awarding further damages" and is confident the ruling will be upheld, again. Did anyone really think this one would just end so easily?Read - DISH Network and EchoStar Statement Regarding Tivo
Read - TiVo Statement on Decision by U.S. Court of Appeals to Stay Permanent Injunction Issued by District Court in Lawsuit Against EchoStar
This saga reminds me of when SCO was suing IBM over Linux containing UNIX code as SCO realized their business model was no longer sustainable and could see the end of their company on the horizon. Tivo vs. Echostar seems like the latest example of this "sue your way to profitability" approach. In the end, it is an untenable solution.
i really don't agree with you here, Tivo isn't suing for profitability. it is really suing to protect its patents and business. For Tivo which pioneered DVR's, companies like Directv, Dish and numerous cable companies doing their own DVR's essentially killed their business.
I applaud Tivo for protecting their IP and proving that they are still relevant and needed. If these companies are expecting to do DVR tech, they ought to pay Tivo royalties for using their patents. and maybe offer Tivo software powered DVR solutions.
+1 mitcheljd
Dish started in good faith but unlike DirecTV, balked at the license fee. Dish got caught trying to pull a fast one and they're going to have to pay.
Quoting from CNet...
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The patent, which TiVo filed for in 1998, is described in the application as an "invention allowing the user to store selected television broadcast programs while the user is simultaneously watching or reviewing another program."
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If you want a more detailed explanation then search is your friend.
This needs to end. That Dish can continue to scoff at patent law and copy other people's inventions for years and years is beyond the pale. Take their money away, shut them down, and allow TiVo to license their technology without competition from thieves.
I've yet to understand exactly what the hangup is. Can you explain what part of the DVR service violates the patent if not all DVRs do?
Thanks.
I don't like the idea of dish dying. Competition is always good, and let's face it, without dish, directv will have very little reason to be anything more than a tiny bit better than cable.
All DVRs probably violate the patent, whose central claim is "recording something while watching something else." DVRs that cannot do that are not covered.
Dish doesn't have to go out of business. Instead, Dish could pay TiVo money to license the patent, just like anyone else would have to. That they choose not to, and drag this through the courts, is increasingly dangerous to Dish. For them to turn around and play the victim is insulting. There are always choices; they have just been making poor ones.
I, on the other hand, am for Dish. Such patents are stifling ensuing innovation. If TiVo becomes the patent holder for a loong time, there is little incentive for them to improve. And I have seen Dish introduce many features not available in TiVo, and honestly prefer Dish VERY MUCH to the archaic and slow TiVo interface. Go Dish - hope you win this one!!
The problem is the fact that they have a patent on that in the first place, you shouldn't be able to patent something as simple as "invention allowing the user to store selected television broadcast programs while the user is simultaneously watching or reviewing another program." I was doing this with the tv/vcr button on my vcr for 15 years before that patent was applied for. Its not a new or original idea.
And every court in the land disagrees with you, as do most inventors.
Filed in 1995.
Really? It was that obvious back in 1995?
Dish's team of lawyers couldn't find anything to prove how obvious it was back in 1995, but you can? As they say, put up or shut up.
You never set your vcr to record something, then pressed the tv/vcr button to watch something else? Everyone I know used to do that. If dish copied a piece of their hardware I would agree that they are in the wrong, but granting a patent on idea like this is just like many other abuses of patent law. Like a patent for a "Method and apparatus for transmitting and displaying information between a remote network and a local computer."
How about you tell us how using the TV/VCR button to watch a program on one device and record another program on a different device classifies as "prior art" when applied to watching one program and recording another on the same device?
Yes, we all know the patent system is broken, but it's what we've got.
When it comes to DVR patents, DirecTV, Comcast and Microsoft have all opened up their checkbooks. Echostar had TiVo hardware, software and technical information in house, reverse engineered it and then told TiVo to piss off, so all they are doing now is reaping what they've sown.
You, know neither one of these companies is all that noble. Dish is trying to get out of paying the royalties and Tivo is trying to get as much cash as they possibly can before the patent expires in about 6 years. Hard to blame either one for giving their version of the truth a shot.
I agree with two statements above. First, that Dish should have paid patents over all this time if that is the patent owned by Tivo, but the other person I agree with is Eric H who says that there is no way a patent should ever have been approved for recording one show while watching another. That was what VHS machines could do, right? So how does Tivo get a patent for it?
In the end, I hope this doesn't hurt my Dish service. I have had excellent service from them, it's a wonderful DVR (I find it better than Tivo's), and I have been very happy with the channels added in high def including my HD locals for Duluth, Minnesota 2 months ago. What scares me is that I have invested in 4 (so far) external hard drives, which Dish allows, and have filled them with over 400 high def movies and some specials and awards shows (each is a 500gb drive). It would be a shame not to be able to play those after spending 2-3 years recording my favorites.
mntwister,
quick question for you regarding the external hard drives, whats the limit on hard drive size now ? I remember it being 750GB when I first started using one, is this still the limit ? Customer service wasn't very helpful in this. Also, you can swap out as many drives as you want ? Thanks in advance !
the 750 limit was only due to the testing they had done at that time. 1G were not readily available. I presently have a couple 1Gs with my 722 - the only catch is at present the software only recognizes one at time. Dish is working on an update that will allow you to hook them up in tandem. So presently swapping is your recourse- not a big hassle to switch one cord. The $40 charge to activate the extra HDs is a one time charge due only on first HD.
Am also Beta testing the 922 and it is very nice. Sling loaded with entirely new interface.
RE: the Tivo schill and "put up" dual deck VCR's allowed tape viewing while recording OTA or otherwise. The original patent is ridiculous and stifling proved by the lack of non-subscription DVR's. So MythTV is still safe?