Ask Engadget HD: Best media streaming set-top box?
By Richard Lawler 
posted Jul 17th 2009 12:00PM
posted Jul 17th 2009 12:00PM
"I have recently upgraded my home theater and am now rocking a 55" 1080p screen, full surround sound and a subwoofer big enough to use as an end table. But what I don't have is any way to watch a movie that doesn't involve putting a disc in a drive and pressing play. Just doesn't seem right! So what I'm looking for is a decent set top box that has:
1. Internal storage, 1TB at least
2. Network connectivity. Wireless is not necessary, as I have ethernet already run to the cabinet
3. Upscaling to 1080i or 1080p. I have a lot of my DVDs ripped, and if I can encode them in native resolution it will save an enormous amount of drive space over upscaling them to a size that works on the big screen
4. Support for all the usual video formats, especially h.264
5. Responsiveness. This is important, I don't want something that's frustrating to use
Oh yeah and price. I don't have a rock solid limit, but I'd like it to be less than $250 without storage or $350 with it. There are so many options out there I'm not sure where to start. So, what do you think?"
So Brian wants to go all digital with his movie watching experience, we're sure more than a few of you have or are thinking about a similar setup, what do you suggest?
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Popcorn Hour A110. UI is rudimentary, but it will do all you ask (I am a100 owner). Better UIs can be had, but I wouldn't consider them 'simple' to implement
I have a a100 too and I highly recommend the popcorn hour. Also setting up a 'prettier' interface takes 10 mins, and it looks great!
Agreed. I love my A-110. It has played everything I've thrown at it for the past couple months, and I've done a lot of throwin'!
nucahx: Where can I find information on this 'prettier' interface?
I would suggest the kind of setup that I have.
WD TV ($
Sorry, my answer got cut.
I would suggest the kind of setup I have
WDTV (about $95) + 1 TB Ext HDD (less than $85 online) = Less than $185
It has played every kind of media flawlessly I have thrown at it & of various resolutions (MKV, DivX, Xvid, whatever at 720p & even 1080p). It even can show SRT subtitles (for you Anime & foreign film fans).
Yes, it doesn't do network (there are unoffical firmware which can do that though). But it is simple & small & tucks away neatly. Good & Simple UI & with no complications.
And Western Digital (makers of WDTV) have been releasing firmwares regularly based on user input.
I would have said Popcorn Hour as well, from all I have read. BUT, if you don't already have a Bluray player, or might be looking for a newer one, the LG BD390 will serve as both BR player and media streamer in one box. Through the network, it can handle a lot of file types, but if you attach a USB drive (I use a 500gb FreeAgent), you can add mkv and mp4 with great performance. It also will stream music and photos. To add a bit more value, you get Netflix Watch Instantly thrown in.
This is an interesting option, as I don't actually have a BD player yet, and my TV is an LG (not that it matters, but they'd at least be happy together). I'll have to look into what all this thing can do, but it sounds pretty good so far. How is it as a BD player? From what I understand the main thing people complain about is startup times and responsiveness to commands while playing. Is it decent on those points?
Thanks!
Brian
I think the response times are actually pretty good. I don't really notice a huge difference over my DVD player before. But you can check the reviews, which I think are pretty good. Most seem to agree that it is one of the best out there at the moment. Oh, I forgot to add that it has a YouTube channel as well, for what that is worth.
Overall, I have used mpeg2, mpeg4, mkv, divx and avi.ts all with no problems.
How about h.264? And does it require a piece of software running on a PC to grab the media from?
And can it play music as well? Not a requirement, but currently I do this with my TiVo, which isn't the best interface for that kind of thing so I'd welcome another option.
It would be really kickass if it could connect to my iTunes library, to have access to my playlists, but I doubt there are many good STBs that can do that anyway, just more limited "media extenders".
I tell ya, if I was designing, building and marketing one of these things it would have a lot more features and be a lot more clear about what works and what doesn't. sheesh!
No, it does not support h.264, but it does stream music and photos. It can play things from your iTunes library (you just have to add that folder to the ones it sees), but it will not play aac, just mp3, and not your playlists.
Most of these players are trying to decide which of all the features are the most important to the most people. I don't think there is a single solution yet, but since I needed a bluray player anyway, this was the best combination box for my dollars.
Second on the WDTV.
Only problem being it have no network connection. But its cheap and pretty much plays all files I throw at with no lag. Every networked solution Ive tried has always had lag of some sort (except my HTPC which is out of the price range stated)
The PS3 with PS3 Media Server is a great way to go. The PS3 has really come into its own as a streamer. Natively it doesn't support some formats, like MKV, but (the free!) PS3 Media Server takes of that. It transcodes on the fly, and works great with the PS3. It's also cross platform, so you can use it on PC, Mac, Linux.
The PS3 also handles 50hz (European) caps
I realize the PS3 is out of your price range, but it meets all your requirements and includes one of the best Blu-ray players on the market.
I have probably 8 TB of HD caps in various formats, and they all work. Though I typically convert .mkv into .m2ts (this only takes a few minutes with TSMuxer) so I can use my Mac native streamer, MediaLink. But, this is unnecessary if you use PMS (did I mention free?).
-Pie
The media server software may be free, but the PC to run it on is not! A don't want to leave a PC running all day just waiting to re-encode video the moment I turn my PS3 on.
Sorry, it was not clear from the original post that you don't want a PC involved. Though I am curious as to how you plan to stream. Netflix/Hulu only?
And just for clarification, you only need the PC on when you stream. Not "all day waiting" as you put it. And if you plan to stream torrented or d/led files, you are in this boat no matter what STB you get.
But I am pretty sure now you are really looking for a small-footprint HTPC. And certainly there are solutions in that realm that are cheaper than the Computer/PS3 combo. I see a few suggestions below!
-Pie
You turn your PC off? Can't remember the last time I did that when I wasn't changing hardware.
Thanks for your suggestion! I'm the "Brian" mentioned in the post, btw, so I'm reading this whole thing with great interest.
What exactly is involved in the PS3 streaming? I have a TiVo Series3 (should have mentioned that), and it does something similar via the TiVo Desktop software. I paid for the upgrade so it can serve non-TiVo files to the TiVo. It does this by transcoding everything to MPEG2 on the fly and streaming it to the TiVo. It does work, but it SUCKS. I mean it's really terrible. Unwatchable in fact. And it requires that I leave a PC running with the TiVo software installed, which sucks in my opinion. Does the PS3 have this same requirement?
What I'd really like is to be able to leave my files on a simple file server without running any software (it's a non-Windows NAS, so I couldn't if I wanted to), and be able to browse and play media from it. If the PS3 can do that, I think we have a winner. If not, I may have to keep looking.
Thanks again!
The PS3 requires a streamer running on the PC, so yeah it looks like the same requirement as the Tivo. You do get better codec support than just MPEG2, however, so the quality is undoubtedly going to be much better. I have a lot of MPEG2 and H264/MPEG4 caps, many from Europe, which play great without the need for on-the-fly transcoding. The two formats the PS3 barfs on are MKV and VC-1 (unless it's in a WMV container). But the former is easily taken care of by PS3 Media Server, or just a quick one-time run-thru with TsMuxer to convert it to M2TS. You can even stream native Blu-ray backups to the PS3 with no problems (excepting VC-1 discs of course).
The bad news is that, AFAIK, you can't connect to a NAS from the PS3 directly.
Note that I have a 360 as well, but it is far more limited in codec support... Microsoft really loves them some VC1, not so much Sony. :-)
Every STB has its limitations and annoyances. Even the much loved Popcorn Hour has problems here and there. So it'll always be a trade-off... just depends on what you want the most in a feature set.
-Pie
I'm always tempted to purchase a media streamer but I can't justify the purchase. I already have a PS3 so I just use my laptop with PlayOn and Tversity. Am I missing something? Why would someone spend $200 on a media streamer instead of picking up an Xbox 360 for the same price?
Better codec support and a simple appliance than can be left on all the time without sucking alot of power and pumping out a lot of noise and heat.
So you're giving up *all* the features of the Xbox 360 (and that's ALOT) for better codec support, simplicity, and $5 per year less on your energy bill? Guess I'm not missing anything.
The PS3 has pretty good codec support, much better than the 360 AFAIK. And with PS3 Media Server, even formats it doesn't handle natively are suddenly available. Heck you can even play Quicktime movies through PS3 Media Server. And I already mentioned support for 50hz caps.
You get more codecs with Popcorn Hour, but there are other headaches (I don't own one, but there is a long thread of pros/cons on AVS Forum). And while you can leave PCH on, to me that's hardly a selling point. I turn the PS3 off when I'm done using it, which strikes me as pretty darned natural. :-)
-Pie
I've got a great setup with a Mac Mini, Connect 360 software and my xbox 360. This way, I don't waste money on hardware that will become outdated or stop being supported.
I hope you aren't under the illusion that the 360 and Mac Mini are going to be supported forever. My original XBox is alive and well and unused on the floor, and Microsoft isn't updating it any more AFAIK (or care). The 360 is going to be much longer-lived than the original, but it will eventually end-of-life (and it's not like it supports most codecs as it is today anyway!).
-Pie
It hasn't come out yet ... If the C-200 can playback BD ISO as expected it will be able to then it will be hands down the winner
I've managed to hold of on a Popcorn Hour since I've just been using my PS3. Nearly all of my files are Handbrake PS3-compliant MP4's with H.264 video and 6-channel discrete audio ripped from standard DVD's. I'm finally going to cave and get the C-200 when it releases cuz the PS3 kicks out too much heat and draws too much power for my liking.
How about a Tivo HD with an upgraded hard drive? Great UI. Streams video from your PC and Netflix. Upscales to 1080i. Decent video format support (but you can also use software on your PC to transcode it on the fly, if necessary). Also happens to be a great PVR.
I use the TiVo HD. I like it for what it does. (Records HD off the air, or digital cable, Streams Netflix and Amazon)
I'd say that it doesn't stream so well in the home. I run the TiVo Desktop software on my quad core desktop, and it streams most files nicely from that. It even works with MKV files that are 720p and brings them over in HD. The thing is that, at least for now, it transcodes the videos and TRANSFERS them to the Tivo. That means that you can't jump easily 25 minutes into an hour show that's sitting on your PC.
I've also used the WHS tivo server addon, which I recommend, but it dosn't keep up because of the processing required to do the transcoding. http://durfee.net/software/2008/09/tivo-publisher-version-131.html
The last item I've got problems with is that many files that seem to play fine on the dekstop simply will not transfer to the tivo. They seem to be transferring, but after some amount of time, the transfer stops, and there's no remnant left over in my TiVo now Playing list.
Yeah, sorry I should have mentioned that I actually have this exact setup. Actually it's a Series3 with external storage, but same thing. The reason I'm looking for something else is that it really sucks. hehe
The sizable monthly fee is a showstopper for me.
I have spent many a work hour on this problem. I haven't found a decent machine out there, but what I want is the equivalent of an ACER/ASUS size system without the screen and keyboard. I would use my TV as the display monitor and I'd need a separate IR/Wifi remote.
I love the WD and similar devices except the proprietary OS, the locked in storage, and the lack of streaming internet; It's not upgradable. Apple TV suffers from too much Apple control. Any of the PC "Media Laptops" are way to expensive and I don't need another laptop, I need a device. The Niveus system is cool, except that it's waaaaaay overkill, outrageously priced, and locks me into their system. I *dream* that the next Archos Media Player will be able to do all this, but Archos quality and propensity toward vaporware will probably disappoint.
My specs include:
1. On Screen (TV) Display of my music jukebox (pick your flavor) with access to my NAS (wired or wireless) for the actual repository. No limitations on music file format. The NAS is because I would still want to access the same music repository from my laptop.
2. Stream web video (hula, Youtube, whatever), NAS video to the TV (I only need 720p for my plasma) with a *correctly formatted* display (overscan/underscan solved). No format restrictions.
3. Ability to multitask...If I'm playing music/watching a movie, I should also be able to get to the web.
4. Stream *any* online music service (rhapsody, pandora, etc.) to my audio out (Stereo)
5. HDMI out for Jukebox display, Movie Display, and web display on TV.
6. RCA Out (Music) /and any more advanced digital connector to my existing stereo with some kind of surround sound feature (5.1...7.1 whatever).
7. SD/USB ports for synching my PMP player to my jukebox and maybe a camera for showing my stills, webcam or local USB storage.
8. Solid state OS separate from an upgradable HDD. I only see the need to have enough on board storage to buffer whatever streaming media I'm currently watching/recording at the time. All major storage goes to NAS. I want to be able to upgrade the HDD without reinstalling the OS.
9. Mainstream OS. No one's silly proprietary thing. Make in Linux, make it XP, just don't make it something exotic just to reinvent the wheel so you can lock me in.
10. Whisper Quiet....No fans... Not easy to do.
11. Slim. Laptop Slim.
To me, this all points to a netbook without a keyboard and display but with a beefed up processor (dual core Atom?), RCA outputs, HDMI out and maybe an upgraded graphics processor.
I had a very similar problem when looking for what I wanted in an HTPC/streamer. I have used mutiple xboxes running XBMC over the years, and while a great solution, I wanted something with more HD support and quieter (that xbox was loud as hell). I also wanted to have something with a ton of storage, with 1TB being my very minimum.
I ended up buying a HP Mediasmart ex470 and throwing a couple extra HDs in to bring the storage to the level that I needed (and upgrade the RAM), and bought a new Mac Mini (which i upgraded to 4gb RAM) to play all my content through PLEX (by far the best program). While this may stretch your budget, it allows you to have very expandable storage (mediasmart has 4 front-loading drive bays), so that you can serve the content to any device you want.
The Mac Mini is hooked straight to my plasma via a DVI-to-HDMI cable, with the audio piping to my receiver via an optical adapter, with all of this being controlled in PLEX through the apple remote, while complex things are handled through a Logitech diNovo Mini (tiny keyboard/mouse combo). This all creates a killer combination that can play pretty much anything, and receives ooohs and aaahs even from my friends that are used to seeing people running XBMC.
Its easy to set a budget, but impossible to stick to it
A $60 (used) xbox1 and XBMC. I have all my CD's in lossless FLAC and my DVDs (in full, with menus) in .iso format stored on my $600 FreeNas 4TB file server. Great UI on XBMC. Plays everything, just SD not HD. My PS3 with PS3 MediaServer on my PC does all of the HD.
I too like XBMC, but on some formats it just fails. this is especially true with subtitles in ogm. and you need to mod an xbox to load XBMC.
although it is out of the price range, the only solution I have found that is remotely acceptable is a SFF PC (mine's an MSI Hetis), with vista media center and the mediacontrol plugin. works very well, though media center is not too good on network playback as it doesn't really buffer.
++ to this. You can also do this on an Apple TV (also can run boxee to get access to other stuff) or build a sub $300 mediapc and run a live install. Also, despite what rflott said, you CAN run a modded xbox in high-def, you just need the proper cable. There are 3rd part VGA and component cables that will let you rock @720p. I'd recommend the media pc route as this gets you a much snappier response time and more access to cool features. Interface in XBMC is beyond compare as well, especially with the MediaStream or Aeon skins. It looks BETTER than professional level solutions like Kaleidescape that can run for tens of thousands of dollars. For more info check out http://www.xbmc.org. In particular, hang out in the forums for a while.
-aedile-
SageTV with SageTV HD Theater?
I personally have an old laptop running Ubuntu and Boxee and all my files are on a separate file server, but could be on the box. Hulu on the TV is great/
I stream my 700+ ripped DVDs from the PC to my HDTiVo's while I use the Popcorn Hour A110 to watch my ripped BDs and HDDVDs. My A110 has an internal 1TB drive and 3 x 1TB USB connected drives giving me the ability to store @150 BD movies! Love the interface too seeing the movie covers for all the rips and clicking the one i want to watch for on-demand access to my BD, HDDVD, and DVD collection!
Wow!
The Mac Mini sounds like an interesting route (
I currently use a Popcorn Hour A100 hooked to a WinXP PC. Works for divX and such, but MKV has issues. I've tried the Samsung BD-P3600 and it was unsatisfactory as far as PC streaming was concerned (worked well for Netflix, though). I also have a Roku box for Netflix.
I absolutely require full transport control (rewind, ff, etc) without noticeable lag and the A100 cannot seem to do this for most HD files. The Samsung had a multi-second lag from the PC. Netflix streaming really hates rewind -- needs to move back a bookmark and restart.
I also require the box to work with DLNA, even though my networked DirecTV boxes have a bad DLNA implementation. The A100 has issues there, too.
Still looking. Maybe the PCH C-200? Wish it did Netflix (and wish Netflix had more content).
This sounds a lot like my own position (I'm Brian). I need to be able to ff and rw easily, it's way too frustrating to try and watch a movie otherwise. I have young children and can never just sit and watch a movie start to finish anymore, something always interrupts. If I can't get back to where I was last time I was watching it's frustrating.
I also tried the Netflix through my TiVo, but it was really bad picture quality. Pretty disappointing. But because I have the TiVo, I don't need anything else that can do Netflix. I'm kinda thinking about the PCH C200, but no real reviews yet make me reluctant.... oh yeah, and I can't even buy it. hehe
Oops, going post crazy here, sorry...
The PS3 has FF/RW/Pause support. It also has a "menu" mode where it allows immediate navigation through the whole movie at 1, 2 or 5 minute steps. Pretty nifty. But this is only with native codecs, like MPEG2, AVC, MPEG4. If you use PS3 Media Server to transcode on the fly, none of these features work right.
-Pie
If someone doesn't have a PS3 by now, they probably don't want one. Too many reasons for me to list, but in this application transcoding is something I'd prefer to avoid and there are many other options that are cheaper.
I use a pc running Zinc. It is software from zeevee, it is awesome, has hulu. abd, fox, netflix, youtube etc... and it plays my local media also. I have my pc hooked to my 47inch 1080p tv. Great Pic!!
Top 3 choices:
1. Popcorn Hour PCH-200 (Not out yet)
I've heard a lot of good things about Popcorn Hour in general and the upcoming PCH-200
seems like it could be a real winner, however, will it play Divx? Is XVID the open source
version of DVIX? If so, is the decoder on the PCH software or hardware based? It has an
optional internal hard drive and slim BD and also gigabit network! (don't need wireless).
What are all these plug-ins? I'm new to Popcorn Hour. Is there a plug-in for BTV? How is
the interface? Will it cache a video file on it's harddrive to increase repsonsiveness while
watching. It seems like a sweet box, but how well will it work with BTV, especially the
new HD formats?
2. Hauppauge MediaMVP-HD (Should be out in a month or so)
http://www.highdefforum.com/computers-htpcs/91528-hauppauge-mediamvp-hd-lan-media-player.html
It seems rather basic compared to PCH, but it should get the job done and hopefully be cheaper. There is no internal storage.
3. MVix Ultio MX (Not out yet)
I will probably get the Hauppauge MediaMVP-HD, unless I can come with some good reason to get the Popcorn Hour PCH-200, other than the options for an internal HD and BD drive. Wal-Mart is supposed to be selling a basic BD player for under $100.
The PCH A-100 plays all divx/xvid/avi faithfully and without fail, whether from a local source, a DLNA server, or a Windows or Samba network share. One has to assume that the C-200 will do so as well.
The A-100 has issues as you get up to HD stuff like MKV (e.g. cannot rewind or FF), probably due to processor limitations. THe C-200 is supposed to correct this.
I concur wirh brian time to weed out all the pretenders and list a few good streamers.
Popcorn Hour(s) + NAS
I have a NAS (ReadyNas Duo) and multiple popcorn hours. I make a family friendly and gorgeous interface using Yet Another Movie Jukebox (free, http://www.networkedmediatank.com/showthread.php?tid=23930).
One big advantage of PCH is that it maps the network drive (NAS) through standard networking protocols instead of only using streaming protocols like uPnP (which it can also do), which can be flaky at times. I started with a PS3 and the interface is not good at all for 100+ movies and I got the occasional uPnP crash in the middle of movies that required a reboot and a lot of unhappy viewers. I went with PCH and it is much more stable, plays everything, and is family interface approved (my 3-year old can use it). Shoving 1080p video all over my house through my network is a beautiful thing.
I was waiting for the ASUS eeeBox b204/206 to release, but when I heard it wouldn't handle 1080p well, I went for the popcorn hour. I would love for a nicer UI on the PCH, but it work and works well. web based interface is janky and until I update my router to n it's not going to get any better I think. When asus does improve it's video, I think I'll move the PCH to the bedroom and run HTPC on the big tv
I am in the same boat as bill except I am using the icy box flavor of the nmt. It is a very similar appliance. I find myself missing some of the extended functionality of the htpc so I am waiting for something like the eee box that will handle 1080p video.
I think the PS/3 and PS3 Media streamer is the best option I've used for ripped DVD/Blu-Ray as long as you have a wired connection between your PC and the PS3 for higher resolution media (anything above 480p). It will play ISO files of standard DVD and upconvert them and has tons of options for optimizing the stream. It will also stream any file VLC can play.
Ripping Blu-ray takes time and space for this system to stream it, but it do it. Having the PS3 means you can just pop in the disc regardless.
You need at least a dual core PC and a PS3, which pretty much blows your budget, but if you have the PC already, all you need is the PS3.