It seems like forever that we've been waiting to see a tru2way TV at the local big box store and honestly we're starting to think it's all vapor ware. Our gut started telling us things weren't going well
at CES in January when we actually saw less tru2way on display
than the year before. Then there was the supposedly
insignificant missed deadline this pass July, but what's worse is that even after a year, Panasonic and Comcast have only worked together to offer tru2way TVs in three markets (Chicago, Denver and Atlanta). A new report from Light Reading Cable Industry Insider confirms our fears, stating that the tru2way retail forecast is "cloudy." At least one member of the industry believes that the cable companies want to perfect it on their own boxes before opening it up to 3rd party retail devices, which makes sense, but how long exactly do they expect this to take? The bottom line is that consumer want tru2way because they want to have access to the same experience on their new HDTV, but without the two remotes and the ugly set-top-box under their TV with the wires dangling down. We asked CableLabs what the hold up was and although they were proud to tell us about all the tru2way developers enjoying their conferences, they said we'd have to ask the TV manufactures or the cable company what the specific hold up was. We do wonder though, if it's possible for the window for tru2way to close. What we mean is that with more and more TVs coming with network capabilities, maybe we'll just go back to vanilla
CableCARD TVs and get
our guide data and
VOD from the internet instead -- now if only everyone had a network connection behind their TV.
posted Aug 18th 2009 3:03PM
Or we might just get all our TV from the internet. Well other than ESPN.
To me it's pretty clear that the cable companies have little desire to have tru2way products on the market. The longer they can hold the technology off, the longer they can continue to rape their customers with excessive fees for the hd box and/or dvr that is required to access their services.
Cable has always dragged their feet with the hope of maintaining their monopoly revenue schemes.
Hmm, sure, they are "raping" people.
How about some simple math?
$200 box / $3 a month = 66 month payoff.
Yeah, you're sooooo raped. And BTW, In those 66 months if it breaks, they BRING OUT a new one at NO CHARGE. Yeah, rapage there too.
When was the last time Sony swapped out your broken TV you paid for upfront at no charge?
@oversight68: You hit the nail on the head. Hopefully AT&T will get off their a**es and do the same for their customers who left cable for the promised land, tivo & all.
Poor Cable card : (
Where can I find a new TV with cable card support?
Good luck. Most, if not all, television mfgs gave up on cable cards after the cable ops failed miserably to support the tech and the subsequent vaporware promises of 'new and improved' two way interactivity by said cable ops.
They didn't fail anything. They purposely half-assed it IMO.
Where is tru2way? The same place as cableCARD. Actually, you can at least buy a TiVo that uses cableCARD. Not much else, though.
I am reliably informed that tru2way is under active development by 3D Realms, with an expected universal release "in the near future." Significant press coverage has described tru2way as "awesome", with one reviewer saying, "Damn! It's lookin' good!" In a statement from Philadelphia, Comcast guaranteed deployment before "too long."
Do you have an screen shots of it in action? : )
Available in two weeks cable company standard time...
Duh, maybe because the cable co's say how much wasted money/manpower went into supporting cable card tech with no return on their investment.
We're still in a capitalistic country, right? Oh wait, Obama got elected...
First of all, I live about 2 miles from the Cable Labs HQ, and we still don't have any sort of Tru2Way here... kind of pathetic if you ask me.
As someone who never uses VOD or other 2Way features I would be happier if they would just unencrypt HD channels. Almost every TV on the market these days has a clear-qam tuner. I really don't get the reason behind forcing a dumb box on me.
I know cable companies are not the smartest, but not having a box is one of their huge advantages over sat. Why not market cable as "all the HD with none of the box".
Their argument of course is that they have to encrypt qam channels otherwise the people on the basic package would get every channel. Of course when you respond especially to companies like Verizon why don't you offer something at the ONT or the router that unencrypts qam for the whole house for those of us who don't want or need a cable box, they are silent. You would still have people renting cable boxes that want PPV, VOD, their crappy guide data, games, and anything else on the cable box, but you would have that slim group that doesn't want any of that.
Due to the way the encryption schemes are set up, a box that could sit on the side of the house and decrypt all the channels a customer is authorized for simultaneously would require WAY too much computing power and would be HELLACIOUSLY expensive. It would take a fundamental re-architecting of the conditional-access system to make such a box possible with today's technology.
@UnnDunn: I'm not sure that's completely true. Given how they've designed the signalling for SDV, it would seem reasonably easy to have something analogous for a cable feed, e.g. join/leave signals specifying which channels are being watched in the household. Then the whole home box could intercept these and decrypt the N channels being received in the house. Sure that might be 8 channels or whatever, but it doesn't have to be everything on the cable.
Follow the rental cable box money trail. The absolute last thing cable companies ever want to see is retail cable boxes and fully compatible retail cable DVR's at your local big box store. The name of the cable monopoly game is stall stall stall.
Tru2way is launched in Salt Lake City. But no retailer sells the TVs here.
Television mfgs are still gun shy after getting screwed by the cable card fiasco. Might be a few sets showing up late this year, but more likely sometime next year. Once they can finish jumping through the hoops to get their tru2way solutions certified by the cable gods, and build products around said solutions.
No demand for tru2way, so no delivery. Very simple.
Actually, it's kind of a prime time for tru2way to come to market.
With many cable systems effectively killing analog cable in an effort to reclaim bandwidth for digital cable and HD, they are forcing people back to the cable box if they want to continue viewing the cable signal.
Sets with tru2way capabilities built in will make it easier for people to just connect the cable and go. They will be able to access all the features of their cable service, and still be able to use the functionality of their sets. In effect, these will become the new 'cable ready' sets of yesteryear.
While most consumers may not understand tru2way, it can make the process simpler for the average consumer....unless/until cable cos find a way to gimp the technology.
I say forget tru2way. Just supply a regular one-way CableCARD and use the Internet to deliver Video on Demand from Amazon or whoever. Shoot, these new internet-connected TVs should have taken this approach all along.
I saw a tru2way "demonstration" in Denver which consisted of a comcast guide and an error when trying to access on-demand. Impressive.
Tru2way was ill conceived:
1. Tru2way is all about the java-based software (middleware), not the CabeCARD. (formally known as Open Cable Application Platform – OCAP)
2. To save the little cost of porting apps (mostly Guide, VOD and simple apps/games) from box A to box B, CableLabs adopted Java-based OCAP, that will add to hundreds of millions of boxes the cost of memory, CPU and royalties. It is estimated that tru2way/OCAP cost extra $50 for each box. Example: Comcast has 20M customers that will need 3 Digital boxes each. (100% digital cable requires a solution for each TV). Therefore, OCAP/Java luxury will cost Comcast $50*60M = $3B !
3. Compare the $3B cost of Tru2way/OCAP (Java-based middleware) to the cost of porting native C++ software between hardware platforms. Yes, it may take years and hundreds of millions of dollars to develop the golden software for the first box (re Guideworks), but porting native code to other platforms can be done quickly and cheaply by a small software team. Quality source code can be ported (in India?) to a new platform within a few months, for just about $1-2M. If Comcast wants their software to run on 24 platforms, it will cost $24-50M to have it all done. Compared it with $3B for the OCAP/Tru2way middleware “Write once, Run anywhere” dream.
4. Ohhh… having multiple implementations of the tru2way/middleware with its Java virtual machine simply does not deliver the promised “Write once, Run anywhere”. It simply doesn’t work. Does TimeWarner Cable's “Tru2way” Guide run on Panasonic’s Tru2way TV? If so, why Panasonic’s Tru2way TVs are sold only at Comcast territories?
5. Plasma/LCD TV life span is 10-20 years (60,000+ hrs). The CPU and memory in the TV is good to run TODAY’S apps. If Tru2way TVs will be a reality, then CableCo will be stuck in 2009/10 for a long time – or start developing multiple versions of their software, taking advantage of new hardware......… Back to square one, minus $3B (for Comcast alone).
CableLabs' OCAP/Tru2way mistake was to try standardizing a software platform. They should have limited their effort to data structures (ex. Guide), protocols (ex. VOD/PPV), signaling, etc. Note successful standards such as MPEG, DOCSIS, IEEE802.11 (WiFi), etc.
P.
An extended multi-year effort to keep people tied to their cable provided boxes and dvrs along with the associated fees.
Paul,
You're preaching the choir here, and CableLabs is the one who thought tru2way was the way to go, myself and the entire CE company would've preferred DCR+ but we know how that one went.
Does this mean that even the cable cards will go away eventually. I am in the process of converting over to a Media Center Home experience. I am planning on investing in cable card tuners. Is this still worthwhile or should I wait a little longer?
Just so if you folks are curious or misinformed. Cable companies are looking forward to tru2way. Think of all the warehouse storage needed for the boxes and remotes along with the difficulty for a technician to plan out all his installs of different boxes for a weeks time. Tru2way will be a great innovation and cable companies know it. Just think, you move into a new house and want cable, what do you do when Tru2way comes out? Call up your local cable company subscribe to a service and either have a card mailed to you or pick one up from a service center. Hook up the cable from the outlet to your tv, put the card into your tv and viola! you have cable. Much less headaches for customers and cable companies. Also the potential for issues with your tv drops significantly. In most cases, if there is a problem it will be connections/lines or your tv. I for one have been waiting months to purchase a tv and will continue until Tru2way is more of a standard. Well worth the wait in my eyes.
@Steve: Hold on to your money tight, cuz you're not going to be spending it any time soon.
If you think all of that is true, then why isn't the market already flooded with Cable Card TVs? And why don't cable companies let people do Cable Card installs by themselves?
Given that neither of these things is even close to true, and most cable card installs are multi-hour affairs that the cable companies never have anybody in the area trained on, are you still confident that this is something the cable companies really really want to happen?