Ceton is set to take over the CableCARD PC tuner market
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted September 11th 2009 3:58PM
posted September 11th 2009 3:58PM
We can't say we saw this coming, but a little technology company we never heard of until CES '09 is going to not only be the first to market with a multi-stream quad tuner CableCARD device, but will probably be the only one for some time. It is for good reason too, as Ceton (pronounced sē-tən or seaten) has been able to pick up where AMD left off with its ATI Digital Cable Tuner for Windows Media Center and improve it in the best way we can think of. This startup seems to have some special sauce that no one else has, we can't even start to think of how hard it would be to decrypt four HD streams at the same time and re-encrypt them at the same time -- and apparently that is just the beginning. We say this because we sat down with Gary Hammer, the president and CEO, and to say he is on the same page with the Media Center market, is an understatement.
Gary came to our meeting with a bunch of tuners including what he calls "the kitchen sink" which is aptly named because it really does just about everything. Of course it is just for testing and won't come to market but it allows Ceton to test just about every configuration you can think of. As we talked about previously, the initial offering will be a quad tuner PCI-E device, but also on the table for the future is an external USB, a low profile PCI-E card with either the CableCARD or the RF input offloaded -- or even both if an OEM was trying to fit it into a small form-factor PC -- four tuners is a good place to start too because the main version of Windows 7 Media Center has a four tuner per type limit. Speaking of types, Gary tells us that it would be possible to offer an ATSC/CableCARD hybrid, if the demand was there -- although he admitted the current designs only had one RF input so something would have to change. Gary explained how Ceton was a technology company who was started about three years ago by some "really smart people" with some "really good ideas," and although the first quad tuner CableCARD tuner will be the initial offering, there are many other solutions currently in testing including one for hotels that will help them make the digital transition. So while AMD paved the way for other companies to produce a digital cable tuner, Ceton's implementation is its own.
No AMD to be found.
Speaking of AMD, we also had a meeting with them today where we asked why AMD seemed to be MIA from the show -- or at least from Microsoft's booth. You see while there is plenty of hardware from partners on display at Microsoft's booth, including Ceton, Hauppauge, and Avermedia, there was no sign of AMD. Don't get us wrong, we can't wait until the new firmware update comes out and adds SDV support and relaxed DRM, but at this point we would be surprised if AMD was actually still making it -- although AMD said it was still in production. At this point it seems that after years and years of investing in the Media Center ecosystem, AMD has had enough and is taking the wait and see approach going forward. When we directly asked them about new tuners, the response was that the lack of OEM requirement news was just announced, and that it would take them some time to respond accordingly. This means it'll be some time though, because we all know that CableLabs certification isn't an overnight process.
Ultimately we really don't care what company produces the products we want, just so long as we get the solution we're looking for -- and we believe that there are plenty of people looking for for a quad CableCARD tuner for their PC, whether they know it or not. We were happy to hear Gary say that he could see a Ceton tuner on the shelf at a big box store one day, and although we still have our reservations, he might have actually convinced us that he can do it. What it'll really come down to though is price, especially with the great foundation that is Windows 7 Media Center. The extenders are still a missing piece from a total solution, but even if Ceton was able to sell a CableCARD tuner to half of Xbox Live Gold subscribers -- since they already own an extender that is connected to the network -- we are still talking millions and millions of customers.
Of course the key is the price -- isn't it always -- and when we asked Gary how much it would be, he asked me how many we wanted. So we said it depended on the price and he said the price depends on how many are ordered. You can see where this went, so after some going back and forth we went with balpark estimate of less than $600, but more than $300. This might seem like too much at first, but not when you consider that four AMD Digital Cable Tuners cost $1200, and you need four CableCARDs instead of one (so rental fees of $12/mo instead of $4). Obviously if a Xbox Live subscriber could just pay $300 for a quad tuner for his Windows 7 PC instead of a TiVo HD at the same price, it is a no brainer, but the amount of volume needed to drive the price down that much seems difficult, at least initially.
For us the price really isn't as important, because dedicated HD geeks like us will pay just about anything for this capability, but what will be more difficult is the wait. Gary says there is still a chance the card will make it to market this year, but officially it is scheduled for early 2010 to ensure Ceton can get off to a good start by delivering on its promisses. Which of course includes producing a product that is rock solid, with the support to go with it. So now we wait.
I would prefer a network version (like the HD Homerun). 4 tuners, one RF connector, one CableCARD slot, and one Ethernet jack in a small, energy efficient box.
This is awesome. I could axe a DVR fee $15.95, an additional set top fee $8.90, and build a nice media center and get one of those extenders for the bedroom. The media center interface blows cable DVR UI's out of the water anyway.
Don't forget, that whole new "TV Everywhere" initiative that Comcast and Time Warner are pushing will get you some VOD Love. Plus on Comcast there's the Universal Caller ID application, so that fills the Caller ID On-Screen gap. Kiss that P.O.S. Motorola DVR goodbye forever!
what are the differences between the red and black cards?
why does windows 7 have a 4 tuner-per-type limit? is that a "soft" limit?
i currently have 3 xbox360s, 3 comcast DVRs, 1 HD box, and 2 other regular STBs...and cat6 run throughout my house. i dont currently have a media center because i have been waiting for something such as this!! i am looking forward to the day i can build a media center so i can ditch all the STBs. it would pay for itself in the long run. i would LOVE to have more than 4 tuners in a media center, though. its not much of a problem now, but later when we have kids, it might be more problematic...but then again, im sure something bigger and better will be out by then. haha. maybe a couple HDTV antenna tuners would be sufficient.
oh, and my vote is for $400. that seems to be a perfect sweet spot.
The red card are the actually ones that will make it to production. the black ones are a pair and are for development only. .
I, for one, would MUCH rather the final product be two short low profile cards than one taller card. That would provide a lot more flexibility in case choices. They are typically many more slots in the back of the cases than there are slots on the motherboards, especially in low profile HTPC motherboard/case combinations. Price point for me is around $500, btw.
I suggest the HDHomeRun with a cablecard to Silicon Dust awhile ago and never heard anything. Perhaps they'll revisit it with this change.
I'd go for the less number of slots since I have a full size desktop (XPS 420) Since everyone else is saying their pricepoint, mine is just under the cost of two ATI ocur tuners. (Already have 2 so want to max out the box after I get Windows 7)
64 bit support is kind of important to me so hope that is there and maybe better diagnostics
$100 per tuner, or less, would work for me. :)
My only issue with this entire subject is the fact that 7MC remains the only viable option thanks to CableLabs and their ridiculous reqs. MediaPortal, Sage, and others are just soooo much more fun!
But, if 7MC/MediaBrowser is my only option, then so be it.
In for 1.
Ok, It's been a while since I've been in the HTPC game, but this is something that is getting me excited to get back in. I need a bit of clarification though...
I have comcast/Direct TV. I pay for a certain package a month (say 200 channels), no DVR, no extra rooms (super basic).
I hook up Win7 and the Ceton four tuner card with the incoming data/tv signal
Do I then get four virtual tuners with which I can record four different channels at once?
I have to view and record everything through the HTPC of course but the main advantage for me is that I only have one incoming line into my apt. This means that my DVR is sorely lacking
I have comcast/Direct TV. I pay for a certain package a month (say 200 channels), no DVR, no extra rooms (super basic).
I hook up Win7 and the Ceton four tuner card with the incoming data/tv signal
Do I then get four virtual tuners with which I can record four different channels at once?
I have to view and record everything through the HTPC of course but the main advantage for me is that I only have one incoming line into my apt. This means that my DVR is sorely lacking
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Yes, you understand it correctly. Keep in mind that it's not just recording four channels at once, it's watching and/or recording any combination of four channels at once. And they can be premium channels as well. This is what makes it different; it can act as a whole-house DVR for everything, both the standard and the premium (encrypted) programming. As I understand things, any TV that you watch has to be connected via HDMI, either directly from the computer or via a media center extender, in order to get the premium (encrypted) channels. And the only media center extender that works with premium channels is the Xbox.
There are two cavaets to keep in mind. One, it works with only cable and Fios; it doesn't work with satellite. Two, you do lose PPV and the OnDemand stuff.
This should answer all of your questions.
http://www.cetoncorp.com/ProductsWMCFAQ.php
Jim