Ask Engadget HD: Is it (still) a good time to buy a TiVo?
By Richard Lawler 
posted October 29th 2009 2:40PM
posted October 29th 2009 2:40PM
"Moving into a new place in a couple of weeks, and while I haven't decided between cable, satellite or FiOS for my TV, I figure part of the decision is how I want to set up my DVR. I've had a regular one from Time Warner for the last few years, but I had a TiVo before that and I'm itching to go back. Media Center seems awfully complicated to set up and I'm not sure what other options there are and which one if the best value, what's your suggestion?"
It's been a while since we took on the soul-wrenching question of the TiVo, and a year later with Series4 boxes hopefully just around the corner it's time to confront the beast once again. Whether you have a TiVo or chose to go in another direction, the date has changed but the question is the same, is this still a great time to buy one?
Got a burning question that you'd love to toss out for Engadget HD (or its readers) to take a look at? Tired of Google's blank stares when you ask for real-world experiences? Hit us up at ask at engadgethd dawt com and keep an eye on this space -- your inquiry could be next.
It is still one of my most useful, most used, most reliable, most bank for my buck pieces of technology that I have ever owned.
It makes my $100+ per month TV bill actually worth it, because I never miss the things I want to watch.
I'm a big vote for TiVo, I love mine. I've been with them through S1, S2, and TivoHD. I didn't get an S3 because I was trying the Comcast (Moto) DVRs. What a nightmare. Terrible reliability (missed recordings, audio dropouts, video droupouts, etc.). When I went to CableCARDs, all was well, and FIOS has only made it better. High WAF and easy to use.
I'm a computer guy, so the Win7/MC idea is tempting, but it's too cost intensive for too little additional functionality (FOR ME).
Plus, if you install pyTiVo (which is a PITA but worth it), you can stream video from your PC to your tivo, and it works wonderfully. I'm using MoCA boxes and can watch h264 blu-ray type content on the HD tivo the minute the stream starts, with no problems. Because the PC does the transcoding (down to 720P for my tv), it's doable even for the aging TiVo hardware.
For me a pc would cost at least $10 a month more in electricity than a TIVO to run.
The TiVo HD uses about 40 watts of power. My CPU and hard drive take that, and more.
Put your computer to sleep and it will use 2 to 3 watts of electricity and automatically wake up to record.
Much better than my motorola HD box that uses 30 watts of electricity whether it's on or not for the EPG.
@ Behemoth:
Actual Tivo HD power consumption has been measured in the 33-35 watt range.
Personally for me at this point, I would rent a cable company DVR until CES. With CES around the corner, I think it is foolish to buy anything at this point.
By CES we will probably have a better idea on the cost of a Ceton card. Hopefully we will have more information on the Directivo due out in early 2010. There is also the Best Buy branded Tivo, and the slim chance of a series 4 or at least a refreshed Tivo HD.
With the limited information in the question, I don't know if you can truly give a great recommendation. Yeah I love my Tivos, but if I was only recording OTA I wouldn't need them. At the same time I want more tuners to handle more conflicts and record more shows so I am looking at Win7MC+Ceton instead of adding another Tivo. I record a ton of shows so I want the space to hold them all which again goes to Win7MC. If I was only recording a handful of shows where the limited hard drive space of the stock Tivo drive would suffice and I only needed it in one room, I would probably just go with the cable company DVR unless you find a great deal on a Tivo like one on clearance at Sears if they are even still any left.
I still don't understand why some of these DVRs don't have PIP! Some cable DVRs and Dish Network DVRs have it, why don't the others??
It's expensive to add a second decode path, and with modern Dolby Digital audio streams, you can't (at least affordably) mix the streams (at least not without expensive additional chips to decode the stream, then mix all channels, then reencode, and still expect quality loss). Besides, with a TiVo, you're probably watching most, if not all, of your programming timeshifted - so PiP is kind of pointless.
If you go with either Time Warner Cable or Verizon FiOS or over the air, the Tivo is a good solution. If you go with Satellite, its probably not a good solution for you--just go with the Dish or DirectTV DVR they offer. If you don't care a whole lot about the way your DVR works and want to save money like most people, go with the cable company's DVR. If its Verizon, you'll probably be happier with their DVR than you will be if its Time Warner.
If you go with Time Warner cable, the cable company DVR will be easier. Time Warner will likely have a lot of channels using switched digital video, which'll mean you need both cable cards to decode the encrypted channels, and a digital tuning adapter (it'll look like a cable box) that you'll hook up to the Tivo to change channels. Pain. And be prepared for a horrible installation experience. Once it works you'll be fine but the installation may take hours. This sort of problem won't happen with FiOS and Tivo because they don't have any analog channels, use IP for their VOD offerings, etc so they don't have to use SDV. Which makes things simpler.
Personally I like my Tivos. I like moving shows from room to room. I like the Amazon VOD service. I like transcoding shows from my Tivo to watch on my iPod using Tivo Desktop. I like transcoding Top Gear to watch on my TV again using Tivo Desktop.
The Tivo interface is pretty old. You likely won't want to use it for music or photos even though it can do those things.
Might there be a Series 4 Tivo that can do SDV without the external box and support the cable company VOD service announced any time soon? Sure, its a possibility, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Tivo moves at a bit of a snail's pace. Could be announced at CES in January. Or it could be another year or more. Go with what's available when you need to make a decision.
You can always do the obvious--rent the cable company/Verizon DVR for a while and see if you can live with it. If you can, it'll be cheaper. And maybe you'll hear about something at CES next January that'll make you glad you waited.
I've had a Tivo Series 1,2, and HD. All with the lifetime subscription. I've easily broken even on all of them.
With all the constant talk of Tivo being outdated, for years now, nothing really has supplanted the ease, the features, and cost.
Plus with the hack-community surrounding Tivo, you can do a lot like playing other media formats (pytivo).
WMC7 is nice, but takes more of an effort.
But I still find the Tivo UI top notch compared to most, if not all, of the alternatives.
TiVo, wins for now.
I think if you are going with cable, I would say go with the Tivo if you can afford it. I only have experience with Comcast, but their DVR is horrible, and from what I understand, most cable cos use similar boxes. For satellite, if you are REALLY concerned with the DVR, definitely go Dish. Their DVR is excellent. Very responsive, decent UI, and fairly easy to use. I would not count on Tivo coming to DirecTV simply because it has not happened. These things have a tendency to take forever to come out if they come out at all. For instance, Comcast has been testing Tivo since 2007, and to my knowledge is still only available in a few markets. Also, Dish has delayed their Sling loaded DVR several times. You may be waiting a while for cable/satellite cos to get something like the DirecTV Tivo out the door.
Build a media center (W7) and install the CETON cable card tuner that is coming out in January.
You will get 4 (four) tuners. It can use SDV. It requires only 1 (one) multistream cable card.
This will be the perfect setup hands down. Tivo doesn't even come near it.
Price wise, yeah, Tivo is cheaper short term. Long term the media center will be cheaper since you don't need a subscription. Granted, you might break even at the end of it's life but you will have a much better system that can be updated, tweaked, hacked you name it.Just look at all the plugins that are there now for media center. Can only get better.
Great discussion, here is an option I havn't seen mentioned yet.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13845_3-10382619-58.html
Nero has TiVo for PC now for only $69.99 you get:
PCTV Tuner
TiVo remote
USB IR reciever
TiVo Software
One year of service.
I have not gotten one to play with yet.
I have used the Tivo Series 2, DirectTivo, Tivo HD, Comcast, Verizon Fios, Cox Cable, and Time Warner, and Windows Media Center XP, Vista, 7, and some strange TV recording functionality that ATi built a couple of years ago... it did have integrated TV guide.
Out of all of those for ease of use - you go with the cable companies box. If you have other people in the picture like a wife and kids - they need it to be simple. Simple is the cable companies cable solution. If you can get Fios, they have the best looking interface out of the rental box group, but it's still a far cry from Tivo. And this would be the cheapest upfront cost solution as well.
For absolute everything on the planet Television viewing, go with Win 7. At it's heart it's a PC so you can modify it to your hearts content. Just be aware that sometimes stuff breaks because it's a PC, and you will need to fix it. If others are watching TV with you - this will be unacceptable. It can do music, Hulu, Netflix, Digital Cable, OTA Cable, Standard Def, can record from a satelite box (SD) and can have 8 tuners all told.
That leaves Tivo. All that it has going for it is the interface. It's the best that is out there bar none. It's easy to understand, it's tries hard to make you happy, and it's the interface I wish all cable boxes would buy. The downside for Tivo now is the Cable Card. If you have a cable (non-fios) it's nearly impossible to get to work reliably. Believe me I tried. I tried for four months. With mulitple cable cards, and multiple SDV devices, and it never seemed to work well for me. I would have to reboot the Tivo (15 minute start up time to... annoying) about 2 times a week. It seemed anytime the Tivo lost power I would need to reseat the cards too. And restart the SDV device. At this point in time I cannot reccomend you go with Tivo, as much as I do love it, unless you are a masochist.
So choose wisely. Easy = Cable Box, Awesome = Win MC 7, Hardup for Tivo = Cable Box until they nail the Cable Card / SDV thing out.
Another vote for TiVo.
TiVo is a cost-versus-value decision. Since value is subjective, there will be endless debate about what that is worth to someone. After using completely inferior products (e.g., the craptastic Moto DCT6412), TiVo has infinite value and that is why the cost is not as relevant to me.
I recently bought a TiVo HD to complement the Series III that I already own. If you are basing your decision on the best product, it is still TiVo hands down. If you want to (over) analyze spending a dime here or spending a dime there, you may miss the larger issue of value. There is simply no simpler interface and functionality on the market. Period.
A Tivo HD and Pytivo convinced me! A media center PC needs too much high end hardware for HD to be cost effective. When on analog only, my HTPC was excellent - even the wife had no trouble with it. I even used a beautiful Antec Fusion case. HD changed all that. You need Core2Duo at a minimum with 4GB Ram, and a good video card. Not worth it IMHO.
The Tivo does HD with ease, as it was designed. I can stream ANY video format with Pytivo. Main PC is now a file server that uses FFDShow to transcode on the fly to Tivo format. If I want to rent a movie, there's Netflix and Amazon. Even Youtube is available.
I'm skeptical Hulu will show, especially after they killed Boxee's hack, and the PS3's.
If Windows7 Media Center existed three years ago, I'd have never bought a Tivo. The biggest feature I bought it for (multi-room viewing) is nearly non-existent thanks to broadcast flags, and the inability to play files I've downloaded / ripped has been a constant disappointment.
I just bought a second (used) Series3 for the bedroom, put a 1TB disk in it and signed up for a lifetime subscription. I love Tivo. Windows MCE has a nice UI, but the two HD tuner models are still very expensive, only recently have I seen cards promised that will output HD audio over HDMI, and I really do think you need to be reasonably Windows adept to keep them running. Tivo just works (well, until your disk starts failing after a couple years and you have to replace it, but that's what the TivoCommunity forums are for).