Ask Engadget HD: How do I get the best audio from my PS3, without HDMI?
By Richard Lawler 
posted Nov 11th 2009 3:34PM
posted Nov 11th 2009 3:34PM
"I read your article and I would like further advice. I have the brand new PS3, which I'm going to use with a 1080p Sony Bravia - the video is fine..HDMI to the tv. The problem is that I have an ONKYO THX 7.1 system (really 5.1), and there is no HDMI, so I plan on using an optical audio cable from the PS3 into the receiver. How do i get the best sound? Will the PS3 decode the trueHD (or whatever it is) and send the full spectrum of sound across the optical to the receiver? Will NOT having the HDMI to the receiver affect my sound, or will the PS3 internal decoding send a perfect lossless sound to my non-HDMI receiver?"
Just in case our HD 101 explanation wasn't enough (First off, S/PDIF transmission -- over either optical TOSLINK or coax -- does not have the bandwidth to carry Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA signals. If you connect your Blu-ray player to your receiver with optical or coax, the audio will "fall back" to Dolby Digital, DTS or two-channel PCM -- lossless, but only two channels,) any tips on how David can get the highest audio quality possible out of the equipment he has? Of course, if you think replacing one of the components is a better choice, that's always an option as well.
Got a burning question that you'd love to toss out for Engadget HD (or its readers) to take a look at? Tired of Google's blank stares when you ask for real-world experiences? Hit us up at ask at engadgethd dawt com and keep an eye on this space -- your inquiry could be next.
There's nothing to be done here. The PS3 was designed around HDMI first and foremost.
The only option here is toslink digital which will bump you down to Dolby Digital. The only good news here is that BD feature a higher bit rate DD than standard DVD typically in the 640kbs range, so you do get better sound that way. You'll still be missing the higher resolution formats like True HD and DTS HD MA.
The other option is to buy another player with analog outputs. Right now I recommend the Pioneer BDP-320 and Panasonic BD80.
What he said. I definitely hear the sound difference in a higher bitrate on my amp. I'm in the same boat until I can upgrade my TV(TV is hdmi 1.1 and connection is spotty at best through amp with hdmi) is) so toslink is the only way. No HD sound is possible without a 5.1-7.1 discrete input (aka onboard analog decoding) and your amp. Consider upgrading the amp if you want your ps3 to do 7.1 DTS/Dolby HD. I'm going to assume you don't want to replace your ps3 as a bluray player.
Why do they even sell 7.1 non HDMI audio decoding Amps? I remember looking all this up when I was shopping for an amp a few months ago, and I just didn't understand the point. Optical cant push more than 1.5mbps thus i can't push 7.1 or TrueHD, so whats the point of making the device 7.1 anyway?
@Will
Most 7.1 amps have analog inputs. Some blu-ray players decode the 7.1 formats and output them via analog.
Unfortunately, the PS3 only outputs digital audio for surround, so HDMI is the only way you'll get 7.1 out of a PS3.
Toslink.
Next question...
I don't understand the downrank for deeznutz? Toslink is in fact the connection that provides the highest bitrate in this situation.
"Suck is our friend .... " Bit of a Freudian slip of the finger there ;)
I have an ONKYO system that was top of the line, it also has no HDMI---my DTV uses Toslink (optical), my Panasonic BD player uses Coax, New PS3 uses Toslink, to the CD connection on the Onkyo works great, yea! I need to sell the BD player
depends on the tv...you might be able to go HDMI to the tv and from the tv audio out to the onkyo.
If you are going to get another player, oppo ftw
I'm not sure why you were ranked down since I would suggest the same thing. PS3 -> TV (Audio Out) -> Receiver.
He was ranked down because, for most TVs (every TV?), hooking it up in this manner will result in sending 2-channel audio to the receiver which is converted to Dolby Pro Logic. This is not the ideal way to get the best audio for his setup, using Toslink and setting up the PS3 to bitstream audio to the receiver is.
Hello David,
I know your problem. I had exactly the same situation. I have a 2000+ Euro Onkyo receiver with analog 7.1 inputs. And I did not want to throw this beautiful receiver away because it has not HDMI.
Here is the device you need:
http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%204x2_7_1audio.html
It is not exactly cheap, but it works perfectly and helps you to lift your trusty receiver into the HDMI age. I have my PS3 connected to the Octava with HDMI and the PS3 sends Multichannel 5.1 PCM to the Octava. The Octava is connected with 6 cinch cables to the analog 5.1 input of the Onkyo. Works like a charm!
Even better, the Octava has 2 HDMI outputs, so I can have my LCD TV and my HD projector connected at the same time and don't have to change any cables.
If you need an additional stereo output from your PS3 because you want to listen with headphones you can have that too without changing the setup. In your PS3, activate "additional audio output", and you will always get a nice stereo PCM downmix on the SPDIF port which I feed into my receiver and use for headphone listening. I don't have to change the HDMI setup that way.
I hope to help!!
Interesting device which addresses David's problem perfectly. It's unfortunate that it is so expensive.
Yes I've seen this device, but honestly for $350 it doesn't make much sense. A good BD player with analog outputs is 100 dollars less, and an HDMI Onkyo 570 is $50 less.
IMO you're much better off upgrading to an HDMI receiver since you can benefit from things like bass management and room correction (Audyssey, MCACC) systems that could make a bigger impact towards your sound than higher resolution.
Lektropaks has something similar, but just a single HDMI pass-thru and 5.1/7.1 analog out. You will need to put this between your PS3 and TV's HDMI in order for it to work (it has a bug in that it *only* acts as an HDMI pass-thru, not as both an HDMI end-point/pass-thru like most receivers). The advantage is that it's about $150 USD.
You definitely full resolution from your PS3, rather than buying a separate BD player. PS3 games actually include lossless audio: Drake's Fortune for example. So you want to take advantage of lossless for games too.
-Pie
I can do you one better, for much less.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=5557&seq=1&format=2
It may not have 2 outputs, but it does everything you just mentioned, for only about $50.
I've got to say this is a whole lot to do about, well not much. I understand you want the best sound but there is little to no option with this set up. I have the same issue and refuse to upgrade a receiver just to get more (not necessarily better) sound.
The best way to fix this is by properly calibrating your receiver and your tv. Make the best with what you have and be happy about it. Sound with an optical cable is more than adequate.
Go ahead, bash me and disagree but I bet the majority (as in 95%) of us wouldn't notice the difference between a 5.1 setup using optical than a 7.2 setup using hdmi.
Not going to bash you, but will definitely disagree. Assuming quality speakers, the difference between Dolby Digital and a lossless format, when the latter is available, is quite noticeable.
I dont want to be too harsh on you Matt, but I sincerely believe you are wrong! Most people CAN tell the difference between Dolby Digital and TrueHD or DTS-MA. Its the EXACT same thing as listening to CDs vs. MP3s. One is compressed, the other is not. Even on a basic sound system, an average listener will be able to hear a noticable difference. Sounds are smoother, richer, dialog is more intelligable, etc. The average consumer may not "geek out" like most of us here when their AVR lights up with "TrueHD" on the panel, but even a neophyte can tell that the experience is more immersive with better sound. Unfortunately for David, upgrading his sound is going to cost money. He can (A) just use the Toslink connector and settle for Dolby Digital and DTS, (B) buy an outboard HDMI audio decoder that will convert to multichannel analog, or (C) buy a new A/V receiver with HDMI audio support. If money is to be spent, the best option (IMHO) is to buy a new AVR.
If David wants to stick with Onkyo and wants THX, the entry level THX Ultra2 model would be the TX-NR1007 @ $1499 MSRP, although he can probably find it out "on the street" at about $1100 or so. You can get the THX Select2 Plus rated TX-SR707 for $899 MSRP (probably about $650 street). However, new AVRs with HDMI 1.3 sound decoding can be had for as little as $400, if you dont mind a weaker amplifier stage. Keep in mind that the THX badge does NOT mean its the end-all-be-all! There are PLENTY of good AVRs that do NOT carry the THX badge and will sound BETTER than the Onkyo at a lower price. (Marantz comes to mind, check out the SR5004 and SR6004!)
Finally, keep in mind that the PS3 (the old "fat" PS3 anyway) decodes the sound internally and outputs multi-channel PCM. This means that any AVR that supports HDMI v1.1 will work just fine. You might try looking on the web for people selling their newer, but not quite state of the art AVRs, you just might find a steal! Hope this helps!
Actually, the Onkyo 707 can be had with the iPod dock ($100 value) at Newegg right now for $599. I've almost thrown down my CC on it twice this week.
I am in the same boat (sort of.) I have a HTiB setup and a cheap one too! I am trying to upgrade my setup but keep pricing everything I want at $2000. Personally, I would hit up monoprice for a TOSLINK cable and use that until you find a receiver you like that fits your budget. Hit up Amazon and Newegg right now for some screaming deals.
I'm sorry but that is simply not true.
That's like the silly claim that HDMI is FAR superior to component or alike. The fact of the matter is 9/10 people will look at 1080p and 720p side to side and see the same picture. Yes with PROFESSIONAL calibration. (Sencore to be exact.)
The same principal applies; the difference, be it on low or high end systems is SO infinitesimally small I would not pay a dime to get it. When I say "high end" I don't mean Onkyo,Integra and Yamaha. I mean Rotel, NAD, Mcintosh, powering B&W or Sonus Faber.
The spec is clear, HDMI has more bandwidth to carry more audio information. No one is saying that isn't true. But the audible difference is not worth any money. Nice to have if it doesn't cost anything but not worth replacing a perfectly functional piece of gear over.
Optical to the receiver and enjoy every bit of it.
No HDMI doesn't mean you can't have superb sound from your PS3. Use an Optical TOSLINK cable to hook up your PS3 to your receiver, and make sure you check output for Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1 sound format support. The PS3 will decode Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA into LPCM, then recode it into DTS 5.1 on the fly (or extract the DTS core from DTS-HD audio tracks). The beautiful part about this is that the DTS stream is full bandwidth at 1.5Mbps, more than double that of a Dolby Digital 640Kbps stream and slightly higher than an audio CD (a little less than 1.2Mbps). It's still lossy sound compared to the original soundtracks, but unless you're pumping out the audio to some very nice speakers, you probably won't notice the difference if you upgrade (though the difference between DTS and DD can be heard on even consumer HTiB speakers, depending on the person; some people still can't hear the difference, but that's neither here nor there).
TL;DR verison: Use TOSLINK Optical to connect the PS3 to your A/V Receiver. Select Dolby Digital and DTS output in the audio section (or auto-config if you're unsure). Make SURE you use BITSTREAM OUTPUT in video playback, or else you'll get 2.0 Stereo Sound (LPCM, or Lossless output should ONLY be selected when sending audio over HDMI to a properly equipped receiver when using a fat PS3).
I used those same settings for years with my B&W 684s, and they sounded nothing less than divine with a full-bandwidth DTS Soundtrack. You'll still be in for a real treat when everything is configured properly.
I don't own a PS3 and I'm confused. Is it not possible to output two channel sound?
I've personally never been very impressed with surround, and I've heard a high end 7.1 system. It's never done much for me in the movie theater either, and I've been in some decent, $12/ticket theaters. I don't seriously play videogames anymore, just for casual fun here and there, so I don't need to hear enemy sneaking up at 7:00.
I'd much rather have a great two-channel system with a well-matched dedicated amplifier, a musical (fast) subwoofer centrally located, and well-designed acoustics and damping. A system that is equally at home with any kind of source material -- an NFL game, the new Menomena CD, or District 9.
You really are confused. Quality gaming thrives on surround sound. This isn't about two-channel stereo mix enjoyment, its about 5+ channel sound that replicates all the sound that either a movie or game maker provides AND isn't lossy-compressed.
Kevin: The PS3 can give you a stereo downmix of course. Through HDMI, TOSLINK or analog. It is useful for people listing to TV speakers or stereo users like you.
The games I play don't need surround. I used to be a huge Unreal Tournament fiend, logged thousands of hours, but over the past few years realistic/violent gaming has bored me to tears. A unique and fun and yes, casual game is what I look for.
Anyway, as an adjunct to the original question, what if I wanted to buy a PS3 but use just analog two channel stereo output -- possible or unpossible? I mean, regardless of whether it's "advisable" or doesn't take full advantage of the hardware...
Currently I send FiOS over HDMI to my Samsung LCD and then send two channel analog from the television to my preamp and then to my amplifiers, which works out very well functionally (no lip sync problems at all) and aurally (very direct and clean sound). Would this scheme also be possible with a PS3 were I to buy one? Thanks.
Thank you Alexander.
I'm still just trying to figure out how to not have to unplug the coax cable in the back of my SONY HTIB to get sound from the DirecTV and then plug it back in to get sound from my PS3. A huge pain in the ass switching. It's like one optical takes priority but won't let the coax play nice.
check out this device
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160297385670&ssPageName=STRK:MEUSX:IT
revised link
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160378882130
Those that can't hear the audible differences between dolby(nay) and dts(yay) is not truly an av guy.
Dolby has underperformed dts for as long as i can remember. I used to test dvds in my collection(especially in the superbit days), and was always mesmerized by how much louder and full sounding dts was, and still is in my opinion. It is rare to hear a dts track that isnt full bodied, and sonically thorough. The best dolby track I've ever heard was the star wars i and II dvds. During my testing, the difference was so pronounced, that I pretty much stopped buying dvds if it didnt have a dts track. Spiderman I's opening score in dts massacred the dolby version as well.
With dolby I always have to turn up the sound or start messing with the loudness and center channel. But the biggest problem with DD is that the rear channels are usually extremely weak, frustrating me time and time again. I dont find it any different with blurays.
When I watched ghost in the shell SAC special edition dvds, the dts track put the biggest smile on this mans face since the last sweet ass i saw.