http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/ Engadget Comments for TiVo, Sony and others to FCC: 'gateways' should replace CableCARD http://www.engadget.com/media/feedlogo.gif http://www.engadget.com en-us Copyright 2012 Weblogs, Inc. The contents of this feed are available for non-commercial use only. Blogsmith http://www.blogsmith.com/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 23rd 2009 1:27PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
Tivo would love this, I'm sure - they could make one Tivo, instead of a Tivo HD with CableCard, a Tivo SD with analog, a new DirecTivo with satellite integration, etc. They're also clearly positioning the home network as the means of connecting, so any device or PC can partake of the content - and presumably allow Tivo to upgrade existing boxes (all of which have ethernet) to handle any new standards.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 2:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Here, here...
The fact that cable-card devices did not work simply because some folks just didn't support the technology... Nor did most companies have enough internal skill-sets to support it's need... S@it, I was over on another site where a person was told directly by his cable company that they just didn't support CCards at all... Additionally, most companies never informed their clients nor made it a cost efficient change... I think I pay $3.00 less for the CCard then the HD box itself from my cable provider which is absolutely ridiculous...]]>Dec 23rd 2009 3:54PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Commercial satellite TV is encrypted. Decryption is handled by the receiver. Anyway, in the cable world access control used to be done by simply installing a trap to filter out the frequencies of content you weren't paying for. The problem with this method is a technician has to go out, climb the pole, and replace that trap every-time you change services. That's expensive and easily defeated. Just take the trap off and put a different one on. Cable lines are pretty far away from the power lines so you'd be surprised how many folks are willing to climb up there and do it. Additionally delivering certain channels encrypted is part of the contract a service provider has with content providers. They don't really have any choice. ]]>Dec 23rd 2009 4:24PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Feb 26th 2010 12:12PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 23rd 2009 1:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
The old stuff would keep working as well as any new boxes from the provider, this would just be for those who wanted to use 3rd party devices. The cable provider could use the gateway for their own services if they wanted to obviously.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 1:41PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
In fact I like using a cable card better than a cable box. We had a set top box before, and it was a somewhat large box (no dvr) and it definitely had a cable card in it. Whats the point of a cable box if it already uses a cable card?

Our technicain installed it about a month ago, and told us that the cable card was going out of date.

Honestly though I don't view this as a problem. So what if I can't access the on demand stuff. The free stuff is usually old indy films, and that's what netflix instant watch is for right?

Other then HTPC's I don't see an issue with cable cards, and I know that not too many people build their own HTPC's. I was going to, but a TiVo HD was way cheaper. ]]>Dec 23rd 2009 1:40PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
The problem is that your TiVo HD can't access VOD (free or pay) and needs a TA to access SDV channels. You might respond with tru2way, but then you are stuck accessing VOD via the operators UI, not the TiVo -- I assume part of the reason you bought a TiVo was because you prefer the UI. According to the TiVo statement, the CableLabs tru2way agreement actually forbids TiVo from integrating web services in with the tru2way UI, so in other words any CableCARD device would need multiple UIs. You might as well get separate boxes. ]]>Dec 23rd 2009 1:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 23rd 2009 1:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
I'm talking free VOD not pay per view and eventually all scripted programming will be on demand. We're not talking about what will be released this year, we're talking about the future. Any solution decided on today would take at least 1-2 years before it was implemented.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 1:52PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/If we're going to talk about the future then, then the future would be just using a straight up Ethernet connection. I mean as far as encryption goes, you would just need to enter in your username or password, and boom your in. You could access VOD if you wanted to. I mean my TiVo can access netflix watch instant, so we know it's not impossible to do over the net. That way TiVo users wouldn't need to upgrade, and most cable boxes and TV's already have Ethernet ports.
Forget all this coaxial, network encryption garbage. ]]>Dec 23rd 2009 4:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
Two big problems with your theory. For starters 90% of Americans don't have Ethernet drops behind their TV and two 100% of Americans don't want to type in a username or password just to watch TV.

It has to run over coax and it has to continue to work the same as it does now. We're looking for new options, not to get rid of what we know works.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 4:06PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/I didn't either, but TONS of people have wi-fi or have access to one. I bought a wireless N adapter that cost 50 bucks, and it works great. Essentially ethernet is the same thing as Coaxial, Ethernet starts off as Coaxial, only ethernet is faster. If the set top box had it's own wi-fi, or had an internal modem that would also be an easy option.

If we're going to have new technology, people will be willing to change things up.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 4:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
Actually Ethernet is a layer 2 network technology that will work over many layer 1 technologies like coax and CAT5. And this proposed gateway would support IP over coax via the MoCA protocol (see link in post) which is also layer 2. It is much much faster and more reliable than 802.11N (MoCA 1.1 is 270Mbps, real world performance).]]>Dec 23rd 2009 4:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 23rd 2009 1:43PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
That's good thinking, which is why the FCC required exactly that. The problem is that the operators just installed the CableCARDs before hand and in the end the installers still didn't need to know anything about CableCARD to support the operators set-tops.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 1:45PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 23rd 2009 3:36PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/I believe that cableco is required to "suppot" it. Meaning, that it should be made available to us poor saps.On several threads, people have mentioned that when they call and ask about it, the cable company doesn't know what "cablecard" means.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 3:42PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/ They are required to install a CableCARD if you request it. But I had multiple technicians come to the house to get my CableCARD working and everyone of them said something along the lines of "Oh god, these things never work." One actually said "Why would anyone ever not get a box.", right as I was standing there.

Jokes on them though, I just downgraded to basic cable rather than pay for a digital package and their crap ass settop box with a circa 1990 UI. And I'm all the happier for it. Still get the network channels in HD and all the important cable channels in analog.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 4:30PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 23rd 2009 8:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
We finally get the OEM PC restriction removed, and finally are getting the Ceton MOCUR tuner, and now they want to switch to something else.

I've said this in other threads on the subject, but the issue isn't so much the hardware as it is the Cable companies' resistance to installing it.

Besides that, remember when the idea was to have a CableCard slot in every TV, DVR, etc? Maybe if they went forward with that and advertised it a little then people would use it. Now it's pretty much the ATI tuner and a Tivo HD that have the slot (accessible at least, I know the newer cable boxes use it internally), so most people don't even know it exists.

But, I have to admit, as someone who has four ClearQAM tuners already (and only one OCUR tuner), I'd love a device like a cable modem that receives the digital encrypted signal, and decrypts that to ClearQAM for all the channels I pay for.

As for the above comment, unless your network has moved to switched digital video, everyone who subscribes to cable gets every stream. I can physically access the HBO stream, for example, over my QAM tuner. It needs to be encrypted so that I can't watch it unless I'm a subscriber. With SDV, they only send the channel that you're watching at the time, but not all cable companies use that yet.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 1:46PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
No one said CableCARD support was going away, just that going forward we needed a more open platform. And CableCARD didn't just fail because the operators didn't support it well, it failed because you as a customer have to sacrifice services you've paid for (VOD, SDV channels) in order to use it. And the interface itself is expensive to implement since no one uses PCMCIA anymore.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 1:48PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 23rd 2009 2:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
This proposal would eliminate both of those issues, and would foster more competition and lower prices. What cable/satellite executive wants that?]]>Dec 23rd 2009 2:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
None. Which is why it is a good thing the FCC gets to make the call and it's a good thing that Congress passed the Telecom Act of 1996 which requires the exact competition you mention.]]>Dec 23rd 2009 2:05PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 23rd 2009 2:13PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
If you insist on using this gateway to do decryption just give me a clear stream of content that I pay for out of it. If you continue to encrypt it I will just go pirate it even if I do pay for the content.

Mitchell]]>Dec 23rd 2009 2:26PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 23rd 2009 3:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 23rd 2009 3:04PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
I have TiVo HDs with cable cards. Installing an maintaining (Comcast switched from Motorola to SA cards here earlier this year) was not a pleasant, nor a quick task. (also, once the cards spontaneously lost their pairing) It has taken dozens of phone calls to both TiVo and Comcast support to get the setup to work and continue working.

I have friends and relatives who would love TiVio HD and for some I might even buy them as gifts. But I would be stuck trying to get the cable cards paired would be called every time something didn't work. So I don't recommend and I don't gift them with TiVo HDs or anything else that takes cable cards.

My situation is an example of why CC are strangling the 3rd party consumer equipment side and alienating cable customers. And why the FCC (finally) acted.

This time I hope the consumer equipment manufacturers get their designs approved. Then maybe the consumer would have a fighting chance of plugging things in and being able to relax because the setup will just work. ]]>Dec 23rd 2009 3:07PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
If we regulated the technical aspects of cable delivery and forbid the cable companies from renting receivers (much like the telephone companies no longer rent telephones) then there would be a free and open market. Since the government want to get rid of OTA broadcasting, why not regulate cable delivery as if it were OTA.

The cable company would still have the ability to tier and restrict and sell premium services, but they wouldn't have the right to do anything but deliver it to a coax outlet. TV sets and other devices then could be built with standards to enable reception just like they do for OTA.

It certainly would be in the best interests of the consumer.
]]>Dec 23rd 2009 3:29PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
Cablecards would have been a decent solution if people had been able to by TVs and other devices with Cablecard slots. But today, the only two things on the market with Cablecard slots are Tivo and Moxi. TVs with Cablecard slots are no longer sold. Why is that?

Right now, the technology in set-top boxes is changing quickly. Each year, new features are available that make the old boxes seem obsolete. This is a double-edged sword for both consumers & cable companies, since no one likes to change out equipment all the time. But people do want new capabilities.

TV & the internet do appear to be on a collision course. More & more people are dropping cable & satellite and getting the content they want via the internet (or Netflix). Once a majority of people get their content this way, cable companies will start to turn off the TV broadcast pipes and just be ISPs. They may still sell cable TV service, but for this they'll just give you a little dumbed-down nettop CPU to hook up to your TV to pull in some channels via the web. This will be just for folks who want to stick with the old paradigm.

Perhaps by that time, YouTube (or some other site) will be so big, that they will be the "standard" way to watch video content in the future (they're pretty close now).]]>Dec 23rd 2009 4:03PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/
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]]>Dec 23rd 2009 5:59PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/IP tuners based on their needs.

]]>Dec 23rd 2009 6:19PMhttp://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/23/tivo-sony-and-others-tell-the-fcc-gateways-should-replace-cab/Dec 26th 2009 7:27PM