Panasonic's 2010 plasma line has much better black levels

While most HDTV manufactures are focused on being thin and 3D, Panasonic still recognizes the importance of having great contrast and deep blacks. Hidden away in the Panasonic booth we pulled back the curtain on a contrast demo and walked away impressed. Now obviously black levels are very hard to compare without being either being very familiar with the content or by having the two TVs next to each other, but one thing is for sure, the 2010 Panasonic plasmas (on the left in the picture above) have better black levels than the previous models (pictured on the right). We snapped a few pictures (second one with a slower shutter after the break) where you can see the difference, and judging by how close the V10 series was to the ultra deep blacks of the Kuro, we wouldn't be one bit surprised if the new Panny sets make us forget about the discontinued Kuro line once and for all -- it might just be wishful thinking.

[CBHorn Posted Jan 11th 2010 3:04PM]

But do they still have burn in? ;)

[andysexton Posted Jan 11th 2010 3:18PM]

@CBHorn Haven't had for several years.

http://hdguru.com/plasma-tv-burn-in-fact-or-myth/826/

[Reallink Posted Jan 11th 2010 3:57PM]

I wonder if the '09 comparison display was brand new or work horse they shuttle around to various trade shows. Black levels and contrast ratios seem to get significantly worse with hour of use on these Panasonics: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=167

[CBHorn Posted Jan 11th 2010 4:00PM]

@CBHorn

Thanks for the down-ranking, but my comment was sarcasm, hence the wink.

[Reallink Posted Jan 11th 2010 4:03PM]

@Reallink Woops, above is wrong link: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1167339

[Woody Posted Jan 11th 2010 6:22PM]

@CBHorn perhaps you should use /s versus the ;)

[ProfWho Posted Jan 11th 2010 3:39PM]

Is that V or G line tv?

I wonder if they are going to fix the 24fps playback with the G20 and G25 line. If so I might just wait to get one of those if the price is right. I am really wanting to get a V10, but 2k for a TV is a really hard sell to the wife.

[David Susilo Posted Jan 11th 2010 4:41PM]

The V10 is nowhere as good as 1st gen Kuro although it is the closest TV to Kuro. This version, at best is equal to 1st gen Kuro... which is only 20% as black as the 2nd gen Kuro.

It's still a loooooong way to go, Panny. Maybe next year or the year after, but not this year. Not yet.

[Kyu Posted Feb 16th 2010 12:03PM]

@David Susilo

kuro engineer's are also behind panny's 2010 models,
so i doubt it'll take that long, and yes actually the 2010 models are black as 2nd gen kuro elites

[Johnny Neat Posted Jan 11th 2010 4:48PM]

Wanted to upgrade to a 58" V10 but burn in scared me & my bank account silly after seeing burn in on a 42" Hitachi Plasma the in-laws got. Made me stay on my 52" Samsung A750 with the only hopes of upgrading being to a Samsung 52" B750, which is somewhat silly.

If someone with a rep & experience told me that the Panny's had no issue with any burn-in, and or video gaming, maybe I could see it as a future upgrade option.

[ProfWho Posted Jan 11th 2010 5:18PM]

@(Unverified) http://hdguru.com/plasma-tv-burn-in-fact-or-myth/826/

Comparing a Hitachi to a Panasonic is not really a fair comparison too.

[andysexton Posted Jan 11th 2010 7:30PM]

@(Unverified) I've got a year old Panasonic plasma and haven't babied it at all and have no burn in. It will occasionally get image retention if I leave the Xbox on the dashboard for awhile, but as soon as I watch regular TV it goes away.

Burn in from anywhere near to normal use is not a problem. FUD

[Schwinn Posted Jan 12th 2010 8:47AM]

@(Unverified) I have my own 2007 Panny Plasma, and it has no issues with burn in whatsoever. I have a PS3 and Tivo, both of which can leave "burn in" on TVs, but neither one has even left the slightest hint of it at all.

My friend has a Panny Plasma (previous year to mine) and his kids play Wii on it all the time - no issues there, either.

Fact is, these days at least, burn in is not a problem anymore. Maybe the Hitachi has some sensitive panel (as the previous poster said, it's not a fair comparison anyway)... but plenty of articles prove that there's no burn in anymore:
http://hdguru.com/plasma-tv-burn-in-fact-or-myth/826/
http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv/Plasma-burn-in-20050817/
http://www.electronichouse.com/article/the_myth_of_plasma_burn_in/C155

[kevon27 Posted Jan 11th 2010 4:54PM]

Kuro's are soooo 2008... time to move on.

[Johnny Neat Posted Jan 11th 2010 5:29PM]

@ProfWho Read that article before and in there it mentions how aspect ratio watching of a certain type for days can result in burn-in, which is what happened. I was completely inexperienced in Plasma tech at the time and they wouldn't know any better, but they have burn-in from months of watching a hunting channel in 4:3.

I feel bad about it, but they have Sears' protection plan and from experience Sears' is good at taking care of issues. So I hope I can in the end upgrade them to something less worrisome, like say an LCD. That way I won't have to babysit their set & watching habits. What a shame though, still puts the fear in me sadly.

[ProfWho Posted Jan 11th 2010 5:41PM]

@(Unverified) I do think if you are dealing with parents who abuse their sets (and eyes) by watching almost nothing but 4:3 content, I would agree that a LCD would be a good choice.

Out of curiosity though, what picture setting do your parents have the set at?

[Johnny Neat Posted Jan 15th 2010 9:22AM]

@ProfWho - I gave them their settings off of www.Avsforum.com user calibrations for the set. Set looks good but I guess it's not the best quality, of course. Still I think this is a serious thing against Plasma. I mean there are enough people out there that don't think one way or another about what aspect they are watching, HD or not and or baby their tech. I think this is a huge hurdle for any tech. Plasma has to overcome this issue.

[TRT Posted Jan 11th 2010 6:19PM]

Is it not possible that the 2010 Panasonic's are using the Kuro technology? Pioneer isn't using it anymore. We might be looking at Kuro clones!

[clara Posted Jan 11th 2010 7:36PM]

@TRT
They've cherry picked what makes sense. Obviously they're using what they were already manufacturing for Pio, but not what was unique to Pio's Elite series. I believe this includes "deep-encased cell structure", the screen filters & coatings and their picture processing.

However, the Z1 does appear to use the same coatings and forgo the protective glass, as does the samsung B860 plasma.

[BenD Posted Jan 11th 2010 7:40PM]

@clara

A Pioneer branded Panasonic plasma never came off the assembly line. Pioneer pulled the plug before it even began. If there was a 2009 Kuro it would've been made by Panasonic. So the 2007 and 2008 Kuros were always made by Pioneer.

[Zinn Posted Jan 11th 2010 6:40PM]

Does the VT25-Series handle Blu-ray 3D in a correct way, without 3:2-pulldown?

[DarthCardo Posted Jan 11th 2010 11:43PM]

Those photos don't seem to reveal than big difference of contrast but I'm pretty sure that a true review would reveal them. Kuro's are so 2008? Well that's strange when in 2010 they still give something to talk about anywhere someone reviewes a new HDTV. So 2008 but hell, they seem to have left such a mark in the videophile world. Oh, sorry..I know that almost everyone loves silly 3D, thin displays and super bright inaccurate colours. As a happy owner of a 9G Kuro, gotta tell you Panny, you better do something with their magic sauce! I trust you :) Nop, zero burn in my friends (even with PC usage)

[iPaul Posted Jan 12th 2010 12:43AM]

zero difference with these photos, defeats the post!

[Darkhan Posted Jan 12th 2010 2:58AM]

Those photos don't seem to me so different.

[andyo Posted Jan 12th 2010 5:51AM]

Kuros are not only about black levels. They also offer processing and display features that no one else does, like 75/100 Hz display for even the NA models (the KRP-500 can do all of 60/72/75/100 Hz) for watching smooth 25/50p content. Also, I don't think the Panasonics (or anyone else?) has reverse pulldown to convert 1080/60i or 720/60p streams into 1080/24p for film content. Works wonders on ATSC HDTV.

[(Unverified) Posted Jan 12th 2010 8:43AM]

Ok gang, here is a question. Would you wait to get a TV that was announced at CES 2010 or get a still available Pioneer KURO PDP-6020FD before they are all gone?

I am replacing a 4 year old 720p Samsung Plasma and I am on the fence here. I mainly use it for OTA TV and some Xbox 360 (I have a separate projection theater for movies).

I see some authorized resellers of the KRUO have a some left in stock. Should I jump on the KRUO or wait? Thoughts?

[(Unverified) Posted Jan 12th 2010 8:53AM]

@(Unverified) ok, it appears I can only spell KURO once per post..DOH

[David Susilo Posted Jan 12th 2010 9:32AM]

@(Unverified)

Get the Kuro, it's still the de-facto comparison standard by various reviewers and magazines around the world

[DarthCardo Posted Jan 12th 2010 12:42PM]

@(Unverified) if you have the cash go fot the Elite version of the Kuro, otherwise the 6020FD is going to serve you extremeley well...great contrast, amazing resolution and zero image retention...what more can you ask from the current state of the art of HDTVs? they're so 2008? who cares! no one beats them still in 2010!!!

[(Unverified) Posted Jan 12th 2010 12:49PM]

@DarthCardo

Thanks for the tip, the problem is finding a new Elite to purchase, the online places I have checked don't have any left.

[David Susilo Posted Jan 12th 2010 3:13PM]

@(Unverified)

Elites are not sold online. If you buy it online, that means it's a grey market hence you won't get any pioneer warranty.

[(Unverified) Posted Jan 12th 2010 3:18PM]

@David Susilo

Well that would explain the lack of Elites online. Thanks!

[Kyu Posted Feb 16th 2010 12:04PM]

@(Unverified)

you should wait, never pay money for a discontinued product, something else will come and take over, Panny is going to be the new Kuro, literally.
same technology soon.

besides 3D is the new in technology

[(Unverified) Posted Feb 18th 2010 9:36AM]

@Kyu
It is hard to wait when TVs released years later still aren't up to the same level of perfection as the KUROs. I got a PRO-141FD, I have had it on the wall for 3 weeks now, I wish I would have pulled the trigger earlier, it is wonderful.

Also, I couldn't care less about 3D, I want this fad to die a horrible death as it already has many times over the last 60 years.

[Cre8tive Posted Jan 12th 2010 11:15AM]

What are the model numbers for the 2010 Panasonic plasmas?

[(Unverified) Posted Jan 12th 2010 4:30PM]

Well just purchased the PRO-141FD.

I can't WAIT to get it on the wall!

Thanks for the input.

[Bervick Posted Mar 2nd 2010 12:30AM]

Search Youtube for

SOMEONE IS ANGRY AT PANASONIC

In case this link is blocked.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE3Mp89xHOg

Your best source for info is AVSFORUM if you want to know OWNERS opinions.

[muadib Posted Mar 29th 2010 5:51PM]

@Bervick
lol at the link.